RE: Audi RS4: Market Watch
Monday 31st July 2017
Like a B-2 stealth bomber, Audi's RS4 has always possessed the ability to travel at high speed with the minimum of unwanted attention, whilst carrying a heavy payload. And although the intentions of most RS4 drivers are usually good deal more peaceful, the ability to outrun almost anything else when the need arises is a key attribute.
The ability to do just that has made successive generations of Audi's supercar-rivalling five-door one of the most desirable fast estates on earth. And just like its Northrop Grumman alter ego, the investment required to make the RS4 go that quick is substantial - which is in turn reflected in the asking price.
In the beginning of course, Audi and Porsche created the legendary 1994 RS2 - a 315hp estate car with a five-cylinder turbocharged engine that broke the mould. And the RS2's successors have carried that mantle all the way through to the present, boasting front-mounted, longitudinal engines and Audi's trademark Quattro four-wheel-drive transmission.
Audi RS4: Market Watch
With Audi's B9 RS4 expected soon, we take a closer look at the market for its illustrious V6 and V8 predecessors
Fortunately, the RS4 has been extensively updated over the last 18 years, and as each generation has aged it has also depreciated. So the B5 and B7 cars can now be bought for less than £20,000, although the original B5 is now starting to appreciate.
Owning an RS4 does require you to make some compromises in terms of running costs but - when the mood takes you - you can savour the kind of performance normally reserved for only the very fastest of sports cars. Whilst the rest of the time you can happily travel about almost incognito.
The original 1999 B5 bi-turbo V6 RS4 was produced as a five-door Avant only and was reasonably well received, but Audi decided not to produce a B6-based RS4 to replace it. A second-generation V8 B7 RS4 did finally arrive in 2006 - initially produced as a four-door saloon, with the Avant following a short while later. A two-door, four-seat Cabriolet was also eventually added. The third-generation B8 RS4 arrived in 2012 - this time again in Avant form only - and very latest fourth-generation B9 RS4 Avant will arrive later this year.
Soon to be four generations then, but which one makes the best buy right now? Will all RS4s become future classics? And which incarnation makes the best starting point for further modifications? These are all questions we're aiming to answer.
Introduction
Audi RS4 B5 (1999-2001)
Audi RS4 B7 (2006-2008)
Audi RS4 B8 (2012-2015)
Many thanks to Revotechnik, MRC Tuning, RS246 forum, Audi Sport and Glass's Guide for their help with this feature
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Discussion
Always fancied an RS4.
Roomy
Quick as few
Unassuming (kind of)
Handles well and (B7)
Quite an engine (B7)
But a modern hot hatch like a type R is just as roomy and probably faster around track, and while depreciation will be high, running costs won't. Want even more space, a Golf R/Cupra ST is even roomier and a lot more stealthy again. And not far off in pace, if behind at all irl.
In the UK I would still scratch that RS4 itch, in Europe the RS4 prices are still a lot higher still and I went for a ~300kg (450kg for the B8) lighter fwd Cupra ST...
Roomy
Quick as few
Unassuming (kind of)
Handles well and (B7)
Quite an engine (B7)
But a modern hot hatch like a type R is just as roomy and probably faster around track, and while depreciation will be high, running costs won't. Want even more space, a Golf R/Cupra ST is even roomier and a lot more stealthy again. And not far off in pace, if behind at all irl.
In the UK I would still scratch that RS4 itch, in Europe the RS4 prices are still a lot higher still and I went for a ~300kg (450kg for the B8) lighter fwd Cupra ST...
Faster round a track? I wouldn't know, but if you always wanted one why didn't you buy one, the fact that the Seat is lighter, would, in my opinion count for nothing, to me if I always wanted something and had the means to buy it I would, my problem is I want so many cars I just don't have the money............................
Guess I don't want one that bad anymore. They are the great Halo cars one can actually use from my youth, growing up with the RS2, then the RS4 i succession etc.
But now that I am actually in the position to buy they don't really appeal that much anymore as an actual proper owner proposition. Not the kind of person that buys cars just to have owned them for half a year, always buy to keep long term and end up owning them for years if they get under my skin. Having seen some more recent objective reviews on the driving experience (all but the B7 are off the list for sure), and doing quite some miles with the practical car and enjoying the same cars on roads where weight does matter, the RS4's just don't appeal that much anymore to me. But that is my personal sentiment, if they still appeal to you don't let that stop you
But now that I am actually in the position to buy they don't really appeal that much anymore as an actual proper owner proposition. Not the kind of person that buys cars just to have owned them for half a year, always buy to keep long term and end up owning them for years if they get under my skin. Having seen some more recent objective reviews on the driving experience (all but the B7 are off the list for sure), and doing quite some miles with the practical car and enjoying the same cars on roads where weight does matter, the RS4's just don't appeal that much anymore to me. But that is my personal sentiment, if they still appeal to you don't let that stop you
I had a great Mugello Blue B7 for 3 years. It was a lovely car, had a great time driving it - satnav was useless, but so what! The engine and manual gearbox, the steering, handling and noise were great. It should have been a keeper, but too poor for that! The only Audi I've driven that handled and let you feel what was happening through the steering wheel. In fact it feels closer to my Giulia QV than anything else I've driven ; )
I had a great Mugello Blue B7 for 3 years. It was a lovely car, had a great time driving it - satnav was useless, but so what! The engine and manual gearbox, the steering, handling and noise were great. It should have been a keeper, but too poor for that! The only Audi I've driven that handled and let you feel what was happening through the steering wheel. In fact it feels closer to my Giulia QV than anything else I've driven ; )
A guy at the end of my street had one of these whilst I was at school. Very purposeful looking and there was no doubt in my mind that it was something special. Ended up in its roof when some t
ts thought they would have the wheels off it. Owner didn't give up and it was fixed and kept for many years. Was interested in getting one about 5 years ago but some repair costs were too hard to justify to the OH. One day
ts thought they would have the wheels off it. Owner didn't give up and it was fixed and kept for many years. Was interested in getting one about 5 years ago but some repair costs were too hard to justify to the OH. One day The b7 was a dissapointment, b5 was so much a better car, both in standard form, throw £25k+ at the b7 and then your talking, throw £5k at a b5 and you've got something that will make the b7 owners shrivel up in their seat.
The b7 does look and sound nice though I can't take that away from it, another thing is most b7's are sub 400bhp now as they have more coke inside them than Danniella Westbrook, the b5's usually made more than the book figure of 360bhp out the box as well, such a shame as if they boosted the b7 it would of been so much better from a petrol heads point of view.
A friend of mine has just gone from b5 ownership to b7 and is disappointed in the power front, but likes the reliability of NA and it being newer.
The b7 does look and sound nice though I can't take that away from it, another thing is most b7's are sub 400bhp now as they have more coke inside them than Danniella Westbrook, the b5's usually made more than the book figure of 360bhp out the box as well, such a shame as if they boosted the b7 it would of been so much better from a petrol heads point of view.
A friend of mine has just gone from b5 ownership to b7 and is disappointed in the power front, but likes the reliability of NA and it being newer.
Love my B5. Drive it down a windy road and you'll wonder what the point of it is, but find a decent A-road and it makes a whole lot of sense. Just back from a Euro roadtrip, where it never missed a beat and felt as solid at high speeds as it did just trundling about. Steering feel is better than many will have you believe (something Brian Laban noted in the 2000 EVO review too), but the quite effective brakes are still a bit numb
Running costs are high, but the build quality is a league above similarly aged BMWs IME. Overall, as a means to ferry a few people quickly across a distance, almost regardless of weather, it takes a bit of beating IMO, even these days at 17 years old
Running costs are high, but the build quality is a league above similarly aged BMWs IME. Overall, as a means to ferry a few people quickly across a distance, almost regardless of weather, it takes a bit of beating IMO, even these days at 17 years old
Onehp said:
Always fancied an RS4.
[...]
But a modern hot hatch like a type R is just as roomy [...]
No no no. Not 'just as roomy'. Bigger. B5 was small on the inside even for the driver and while B6 & B7 are ok for the driver aren't much better elsewhere. I was looking at S4 B6/B7 a few years back but they were ridiculously small inside. I've had a look at a nice S4 and did the same interior space test I always do - I've set the driver seat to my driving position (and I'm 6-6'1) and tried to sit behind the driver's seat. I couldn't fit in. Recaros are so big the only way I could fir was to spread my legs as wide as I could because the seat was so far back. Which means rear facing child seat had no hope in hell of fitting in there and the child in the front facing child seat would probably ride with their legs under their chin.[...]
But a modern hot hatch like a type R is just as roomy [...]
Onehp said:
Always fancied an RS4.
Roomy
Quick as few
Unassuming (kind of)
Handles well and (B7)
Quite an engine (B7)
Owned one for a short while:Roomy
Quick as few
Unassuming (kind of)
Handles well and (B7)
Quite an engine (B7)
Not roomy at all (B7)
Bucket seats too small for a 13 yr old (B7)
Not particularly quick (B7)
Rock hard suspension (B7)
Very dated interior(B7)
In short - disappointing.
popeyewhite said:
Owned one for a short while:
Not roomy at all (B7)
Bucket seats too small for a 13 yr old (B7)
Not particularly quick (B7)
Rock hard suspension (B7)
Very dated interior(B7)
In short - disappointing.
Ive only had the 1 drive in a B7 RS4 and I was massively underwhelmed too. I expected it to feel a lot quicker than it did. Sure it went round corners well, but it just felt a bit lazy under power.Not roomy at all (B7)
Bucket seats too small for a 13 yr old (B7)
Not particularly quick (B7)
Rock hard suspension (B7)
Very dated interior(B7)
In short - disappointing.
popeyewhite said:
Onehp said:
Always fancied an RS4.
Roomy
Quick as few
Unassuming (kind of)
Handles well and (B7)
Quite an engine (B7)
Owned one for a short while:Roomy
Quick as few
Unassuming (kind of)
Handles well and (B7)
Quite an engine (B7)
Not roomy at all (B7)
Bucket seats too small for a 13 yr old (B7)
Not particularly quick (B7)
Rock hard suspension (B7)
Very dated interior(B7)
In short - disappointing.
The article says the prices for the B5 RS4 are starting to rise, however, in truth, 5-6 years ago you could get a top example for £15k with poor cars under £10k.
As with many cars of this type, when the prices drop to the levels above, plenty of folk can afford them but can't afford to maintain them and there's plenty out there that fell into that camp. Bodged repairs. shortcuts etc became the norm for these cheaper cars.
Not that many great examples out there now (there are a few though), even less that haven't been modded to some extent, so it's these relatively unmolested cars that's been well looked after you need to look out for if you're in the market for one.
These are the cars that will rise in value as they will obviously become rarer.
As with many cars of this type, when the prices drop to the levels above, plenty of folk can afford them but can't afford to maintain them and there's plenty out there that fell into that camp. Bodged repairs. shortcuts etc became the norm for these cheaper cars.
Not that many great examples out there now (there are a few though), even less that haven't been modded to some extent, so it's these relatively unmolested cars that's been well looked after you need to look out for if you're in the market for one.
These are the cars that will rise in value as they will obviously become rarer.
Edited by Nors on Monday 31st July 10:30
B5 for me, for now and always. Something timeless about that shape, and I have a soft spot for the BiTurbo V6.
As Nors says, the trick is finding one that wasn't shagged to bits and poorly maintained during the lowest point of depreciation - I still kick myself that I didn't pick up a lovely Imola yellow example when it came up for £11k around 4-5 years ago. Nowadays a good'un is £30k+.
To answer the criticisms of the B5 / B7 being too slow, too cramped, too whatever - the RS6 was the answer to most of these woes. Audi catered to two groups of people and it really is down to you as the buyer to figure out which of these RS halo cars are more effective for you / your family.
I think the B5 chassis will continue to be considered a high point in years to come, as well as the 5cyl RS2/S2.
I'm currently looking at a few URS6 Avants as they're at the lowest point they'll be at possibly ever, and something about the shape / engine gives me the right fizz.
As Nors says, the trick is finding one that wasn't shagged to bits and poorly maintained during the lowest point of depreciation - I still kick myself that I didn't pick up a lovely Imola yellow example when it came up for £11k around 4-5 years ago. Nowadays a good'un is £30k+.
To answer the criticisms of the B5 / B7 being too slow, too cramped, too whatever - the RS6 was the answer to most of these woes. Audi catered to two groups of people and it really is down to you as the buyer to figure out which of these RS halo cars are more effective for you / your family.
I think the B5 chassis will continue to be considered a high point in years to come, as well as the 5cyl RS2/S2.
I'm currently looking at a few URS6 Avants as they're at the lowest point they'll be at possibly ever, and something about the shape / engine gives me the right fizz.
Resolutionary said:
I'm currently looking at a few URS6 Avants as they're at the lowest point they'll be at possibly ever, and something about the shape / engine gives me the right fizz.
I know where there's a 95 Silver one with 70k miles on it. Standard car 6 speed manual. Well specced too and rare with an Electric Sunroof. Will be coming up for sale in the not too distance future. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff