RE: Aston Martin returns to Formula One
Monday 25th September 2017
Aston Martin has today announced that it will become the title sponsor for Red Bull Racing from next year - meaning that one of Britain's most venerated brands will return to the Formula One paddock as Aston Martin Red Bull Racing in March.
For now, the deal won't result in a whole lot more than the warm and fuzzy feeling of seeing its name above the pit garage - although the manufacturer hasn't ruled out becoming involved in the car's engine from 2021, having been asked by the FIA to contribute to ongoing discussions about future powerplants for the sport.
To that end, Aston Martin will establish an Advanced Performance Centre at Red Bull's campus in Milton Keynes, creating 110 new jobs in the process. As well as being the hub for engineering personnel working on forthcoming models, the centre will also house the firm's second dedicated design centre (giving Adrian Newey far less distance to walk).
Aston Martin returns to Formula One
Aston Martin becomes title sponsor for Red Bull Racing - possible engine partnership to follow
Andy Palmer, Aston Martin's CEO, said: The power unit discussions are of interest to us but only if the circumstances are right. We are not about to enter an engine war with no restrictions in cost or dynamometer hours but we believe that if the FIA can create the right environment we would be interested in getting involved."
Of considerably greater significance to Gaydon are the commercial aspects of the relationship. The 'Innovation Partnership', signed just before the season started in 2016, has already helped produce the formidable (and sold-out) Valkyrie; now it will underpin a line of future products which seek to utilise the racing team's expertise.
It is the permanent presence of Gaydon employees at Red Bull's headquarters which gives the deepening partnership a sense of credibility - a trait sorely missing from the team's previous association with Infiniti. Aston Martin's return to F1 (previously mooted under David Richards' chairmanship) has taken over half a century; expect the follow-up to the Valkyrie to arrive a good bit quicker.
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Discussion
Is it just me or does an "engine partnership" sound a bit weird when their "new" road engines are for all intents and purposes, Merc engines... ?
Edit: Used wrong "Their". Am hiding in embarrassment as you now read this. I left my pedant badge at the door...
Edit: Used wrong "Their". Am hiding in embarrassment as you now read this. I left my pedant badge at the door...
Edited by Fetchez la vache on Monday 25th September 12:45
Fetchez la vache said:
Is it just me or does an "engine partnership" sound a bit weird when they're "new" road engines are for all intents and purposes, Merc engines... ?
Andy Palmer said at the Singapore GP that AM were researching the future engine regulations to see what they may be able to do, i.e. develop their own F1 engine for RBR. Great branding opportunities for both AM & RBR, more than now.Ricciardo & Verstappen will also have very nice "company cars", I'm sure.
Ninja59 said:
Fetchez la vache said:
Is it just me or does an "engine partnership" sound a bit weird when they're "new" road engines are for all intents and purposes, Merc engines... ?
Only the V8 though, we will ignore most of the actual electrical side...The V12 is still very much not Merc.
Obviously F1 engines are not based on anything that Aston currently make in that they are a V6 1.6ltr hybrid...so it's brand new tech and investment for them. Given the costs involved, I would imagine that will inevitably lead to the Vantage line at least, going down the same route in the next few years.
Will also help them deal with the non-hybrid laws being bandied around for road cars in the UK as well. Good move for Aston if the costs add up and the tech is portable from track to road.
<runs out and hugs the nearest NA car>
I very much doubt that Aston Martin themselves will develop an F1 engine. Far more likely that they will sponsor someone like Cosworth to do it for them. Isn't the engine for the Valkyrie being developed by Cosworth, so they already have a partnership going there?
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Aston Martin, Red Bull and McLaren joined forces with Cosworth to develop a new engine for the 2021 engine regs. I include McLaren in this because Zak Brown of McLaren is also a board director of Cosworth. Having their own independent engine that they have total control over would free them from the big manufacturers in F1, something that has troubled both Red Bull and McLaren in the current hybrid engine era of F1. They just need the right set of regulations to make it financially viable.
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Aston Martin, Red Bull and McLaren joined forces with Cosworth to develop a new engine for the 2021 engine regs. I include McLaren in this because Zak Brown of McLaren is also a board director of Cosworth. Having their own independent engine that they have total control over would free them from the big manufacturers in F1, something that has troubled both Red Bull and McLaren in the current hybrid engine era of F1. They just need the right set of regulations to make it financially viable.
Bigger picture - the whole F1 engine thing really has me scratching my head at the moment. The current hybrid formula is IMO killing the sport because of the high costs and general unreliability of the componentry in the context of a set of regulations that severely restricts testing and applies punitive penalties to component replacement - all in an endeavour to ironically 'reduce cost'.
Is the hybrid formula going to eventually 'come good' or is the involvement of manufacturers an attempt to put pressure on the rule-makers to drastically simplify the engine rules and reduce the cost of engine development post 2020?
I bloody hope so.
Is the hybrid formula going to eventually 'come good' or is the involvement of manufacturers an attempt to put pressure on the rule-makers to drastically simplify the engine rules and reduce the cost of engine development post 2020?
I bloody hope so.
PhantomPH said:
Ninja59 said:
Fetchez la vache said:
Is it just me or does an "engine partnership" sound a bit weird when they're "new" road engines are for all intents and purposes, Merc engines... ?
Only the V8 though, we will ignore most of the actual electrical side...The V12 is still very much not Merc.
Obviously F1 engines are not based on anything that Aston currently make in that they are a V6 1.6ltr hybrid...so it's brand new tech and investment for them. Given the costs involved, I would imagine that will inevitably lead to the Vantage line at least, going down the same route in the next few years.
Will also help them deal with the non-hybrid laws being bandied around for road cars in the UK as well. Good move for Aston if the costs add up and the tech is portable from track to road.
<runs out and hugs the nearest NA car>
Krikkit said:
PhantomPH said:
Ninja59 said:
Fetchez la vache said:
Is it just me or does an "engine partnership" sound a bit weird when they're "new" road engines are for all intents and purposes, Merc engines... ?
Only the V8 though, we will ignore most of the actual electrical side...The V12 is still very much not Merc.
Obviously F1 engines are not based on anything that Aston currently make in that they are a V6 1.6ltr hybrid...so it's brand new tech and investment for them. Given the costs involved, I would imagine that will inevitably lead to the Vantage line at least, going down the same route in the next few years.
Will also help them deal with the non-hybrid laws being bandied around for road cars in the UK as well. Good move for Aston if the costs add up and the tech is portable from track to road.
<runs out and hugs the nearest NA car>
Interesting comments above regarding Cosworth being 'sponsored' by certain teams like Aston/McLaren etc. Cosworth obviously have a long F1 history and could actually stand alone as a brand if they were to become an engine supplier - but I guess they need the money of the aforementioned sponsors to actually make this viable?
Perhaps I have not read it properly, but does this mean Aston Martin are replacing Red Bull as the 'team name'. or is it something else? Put it another way - will we here martin Brundle saying, "The Astons are a serious threat this weekend" instead of "The Red Bulls are a serious thread this weekend"? Or will the new "Aston Martin Red Bull Racing" moniker be like when the fat guy renamed St James Park and everyone ignored the rebrand?
Frimley111R said:
arkenphel said:
Do they have enough money for it? Given the state of their finances, and being unable to design an engine that is bespoke to Aston Martin unlike their competitors (Ferrari et al) smacks of Danny Bahar's Lotus Syndrome.
Their backers do. It has shiny new models from 2016, like the DB11... it heavily publicised the firm's recent return to profit in Q1 2017... and is now going big on the marketing push with F1 in 2018.
Better products + better financials + and better branding = kerching.
The likely scenario here is AM will float in London in 2018, top investors will make a mint, and then AM will be bought by someone like Mercedes or Geely in the early 2020s, with most production shifting to Germany, India or China by 2030.
That takeover in the 2020s by Mercedes or whatever is what will give AM the money to bring engines to F1.
Yipper said:
AM is prettying up the company before its London stockmarket float in 2018.
It has shiny new models from 2016, like the DB11... it heavily publicised the firm's recent return to profit in Q1 2017... and is now going big on the marketing push with F1 in 2018.
Better products + better financials + and better branding = kerching.
The likely scenario here is AM will float in London in 2018, top investors will make a mint, and then AM will be bought by someone like Mercedes or Geely in the early 2020s, with most production shifting to Germany, India or China by 2030.
That takeover in the 2020s by Mercedes or whatever is what will give AM the money to bring engines to F1.
And from that I assume you will be leveraging that stock to death so that you can make a few quid? It has shiny new models from 2016, like the DB11... it heavily publicised the firm's recent return to profit in Q1 2017... and is now going big on the marketing push with F1 in 2018.
Better products + better financials + and better branding = kerching.
The likely scenario here is AM will float in London in 2018, top investors will make a mint, and then AM will be bought by someone like Mercedes or Geely in the early 2020s, with most production shifting to Germany, India or China by 2030.
That takeover in the 2020s by Mercedes or whatever is what will give AM the money to bring engines to F1.
Nice theory, but I would not put my mortgage on it.
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