RE: The Long Read: Mazda's rotary roll call

RE: The Long Read: Mazda's rotary roll call

Tuesday 3rd October 2017

The Long Read: Mazda's rotary roll call

It's been half a century since Mazda made the Wankel its own. Excuse enough for a road trip...



It's 50 years since Japan's Mazda Motor Co. launched a production car powered by a Wankel rotary engine, the revolutionary and ultra-compact 'half-turbine, half-piston' petrol power unit invented before World War II by an unschooled but inspired German inventor, Felix Wankel.

Well this is a far prettier badge, isn't it?
Well this is a far prettier badge, isn't it?
It took time for the idea to catch on (especially since Wankel was a pillar of the Hitler Youth and a Jew-hater, imprisoned for years after the war) but the engine eventually ran on a bench in 1957 and powered some NSU cars in the early 60s, before being adopted for the beautiful and much-admired NSU Ro80, whose production lasted a decade from 1967.

Mazda, which has always had non-conformist tendencies, acquired its own rights to the rotary the early 60s and has developed it every since, through a train of 24 concepts, race cars and production cars. Even so, its 50-year anniversary wouldn't normally be the kind of anniversary to set you celebrating all weekend. But it may have bigger implications than we all think...

Mazda UK certainly believes in its importance: last weekend the company gathered up a small band of writers, matched them with half a dozen rotary-engined classic cars it owns, and set them off on a six-leg, Saturday-Sunday driving exercise to connect its UK headquarters at Dartford with the Goodwood circuit in West Sussex, and return.

Smooth, repsonsive, compact... it has plus points!
Smooth, repsonsive, compact... it has plus points!
Despite the long history, Wankel models have never been exactly mainstream at Mazda. This kind of engine is known for smoothness, power, throttle response and compactness, but also cylinder sealing issues (especially in earlier cars) combined with high fuel consumption and exhaust emissions problems that put them beyond the pale of most buyers. Yet when you drive one, you can't help loving the willingness and superb sounds. A decent rotary sounds like an ultra-smooth, ultra-refined two-stroke and pulls from nothing to 9,000rpm with such a lack of complaint that you a beep-warning to stop you sending it a mile into the red.

That's the preamble. Now to the point of that weekend driving exercise. Two years ago at the Tokyo motor show, Mazda launched a beautiful rotary-engined concept coupe called RX-Vision, an obvious continuation of its Wankel-powered sporty line, hinting that rotary fuel consumption and emissions problems could be overcome and that a business case could be made for a car like this around 2020. Further hints along that line came to light a year later, in 2016.

Where it all began!
Where it all began!
Now we're getting ready for the 2017 Tokyo show, with Mazda promising two concepts that include a yet-unspecified sports car. So Mazda UK's event assumed - at least in a journalist's mindset - an extra significance. Was it a hint about what we might see there (Mazda people looked blank). If it was a hint, would the next rotary Mazda model use the Wankel to run a generator in a range extender model, or would it drive the wheels (blank again).

Knowing that car companies nowadays rarely launch concepts that are purely speculative - and understanding that Mazda are keen to progress their successive design philosophy of recent years - we thought again of the viability of RX-Vision. We'll know much more in a fortnight.

Back at Dartford last Saturday morning, Mazda UK's collection of rotary models spanned 40 years, from a superb white 1968 Mk2 Cosmo (made lengthened from the Mk1 so Europeans could fit) to a 2008 RX-8, the funky four-door coupe offered in Mazda showrooms until 2012. In between were a rowdy 1973 RX-3 coupe - an example of which I drove when new in my first week as a motoring journalist - and three different RX-7s. That group consisted of a timewarp 1984 Mk1 with fewer than 300 miles on the clock (because it had spent its life in barn storage) an early Mk3 still in perfect health after 93,000 miles, and a 280hp twin-turbo special edition called the Bathurst and sold only in Japan, to commemorate the fact that it was set up to race at Australia's famous Mount Panorama circuit.

RX-3 a particularly significant car for Steve
RX-3 a particularly significant car for Steve
I worked through the range, from old to new. The Cosmo was perhaps the most interesting, created in an era when the Japanese were still building their export markets, were still humble about their own creativity and so collected design influences from all directions. The Cosmo is a pretty car, but you can practically read down its designers' styling checklist: Perspex-covered headlights, a Lotus-like frontal air scoop, a super-low coupe body, assorted bonnet louvres, a teardrop tail like an early Alfa Spider, and slotted wheels also with a distinctly Alfa look. The name Cosmo marked the fact that the space-race was in full swing.

It's a very rare car these days, as today's £80-90K auction price proves, and drives pretty well for 50 years old. Our test car's engine blew clouds of smoke at start-up, which reduced with warmth and miles, though in a following car you always saw a puff on gearchange. It was decently quick, more because of its wide powerband and quick upshift than its total power, and it was eerily smooth for such an old car. The soft and underdamped chassis was a bit of a curiosity, but you could still make decent progress (tolerating some bouncing) across country.

Early RX-7 has less than 300 miles on it!
Early RX-7 has less than 300 miles on it!
The RX-3 had a fabulous engine, and here in 2017 faithfully played the role it had at the beginning of its life. It was loud and animalistic, but also smooth, and quick in the powertrain; its 44-year-old chassis possessing all the characteristics we used to list for Japanese cars in those days - far too much springing and far too little damping. It leapt and bucked all over the road, but did it at impressive speed and sounded great while doing it. By comparison the refined and flat-riding 'barn-find' Mk1 seemed flat and soft: its principal appeal was a superb velour interior, and the surreal experience of driving a showroom-fresh 1984 car.

The Mk3s looked great and felt pretty modern. Not many of them were sold here because, despite positive road tests at the time they had to fight the Porsche 924/944 and Lotus Excel (not to mention the Toyota Supra and Mitsubishi 3000GT) in the showroom, and this was an era when people were beguiled by big brand appeal. The Mk3s were low, too, and very snug in the cockpit, but their low bonnets, with pop-up headlights, made the view of the road as inspiring as their brisk performance. The Bathurst car's poke was especially urgent.

How did they make RX-7s so pretty?
How did they make RX-7s so pretty?
Finally the RX-8: though an earlier model, it felt supple, refined, quite quick but above all modern. There are better RX-8s than this (notably the later R3 model, running improved suspension and shorter gearing) but this car did make me wonder whether we'd been respectful enough to the RX-8 while it was around. Perhaps not.

It was a fascinating exercise, anyway. Every iteration of the Mazda rotary we tried showed its strong driver appeal, and made me (an MX-5 owner) wonder why on earth they haven't fitted this sportiest of engines to their little roadster, the Mazda with by far their best chassis of all. Pervading everything was feeling that something is coming on the rotary front. On this weekend's showing, it'll be very welcome.

Steve Cropley

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Author
Discussion

JohnGoodridge

Original Poster:

529 posts

196 months

Tuesday 3rd October 2017
quotequote all
Nice. Mk. 2 RX-7 [absent here] wasn't exactly a classic, but it was the one I owned, and enjoyed.

Horsetan

410 posts

208 months

Tuesday 3rd October 2017
quotequote all
There is at least one other original Cosmo in the UK, owned by a fella named Phil Blake (who also owns about 20 Ro80s).

If it hadn't been for the perseverance of Kenichi Yamamoto, the rotary would have had no future at Mazda.

Robmarriott

2,641 posts

159 months

Tuesday 3rd October 2017
quotequote all
Horsetan said:
There is at least one other original Cosmo in the UK, owned by a fella named Phil Blake (who also owns about 20 Ro80s).

If it hadn't been for the perseverance of Kenichi Yamamoto, the rotary would have had no future at Mazda.
I suspect this was the one which was for sale recently, there was at least one Ro80 in the background of the photos which were in a barn.

Horsetan

410 posts

208 months

Tuesday 3rd October 2017
quotequote all
Robmarriott said:
I suspect this was the one which was for sale recently, there was at least one Ro80 in the background of the photos which were in a barn.
That would be his "spare" Cosmo. He has one other which is in running condition. Before he moved to Suffolk, he used to have Ro80s parked in various parts of South London - I remember going to view one or two in Coulsdon.

Sway

26,315 posts

195 months

Tuesday 3rd October 2017
quotequote all
Excellent read - quick point of order, Goodwood is in West Sussex, not East...

Still hanker for a fd rx7. One day my budget and use will align and it'll happen - I hope! At the moment I just do way too many miles to even think of it.

unsprung

5,467 posts

125 months

Tuesday 3rd October 2017
quotequote all
article said:
why on earth they haven't fitted this sportiest of engines to their little roadster, the Mazda with by far their best chassis of all.
A capital idea. Obviously this has been mentioned before (not by me, although I wish that I had). Imagine the change in character -- due not only to the physics of rotary operation, but also to possible savings in weight.

Is the reason that we see no rotary nowadays (in any car) because this engine is simply an unworkable dream -- something that looks good on paper but which, despite advances in engineering and in materials technology, will always suffer from notable flaws?

Are there any advantages (versus a reciprocating engine) to a rotary that would serve as a generator, running at a constant speed, for a hybrid-electric vehicle?

Do emissions become negligible if a rotary runs on LPG or E85? (setting aside the issue that LPG and E85 are more available in some countries than in others)






Dr Tad Winslow

52 posts

79 months

Tuesday 3rd October 2017
quotequote all
The FD RX-7 is potentially the best looking car ever made, IMO.

Fastdruid

8,650 posts

153 months

Tuesday 3rd October 2017
quotequote all
unsprung said:
Are there any advantages (versus a reciprocating engine) to a rotary that would serve as a generator, running at a constant speed, for a hybrid-electric vehicle?

Do emissions become negligible if a rotary runs on LPG or E85? (setting aside the issue that LPG and E85 are more available in some countries than in others)
I think most of the issue is they "waste" quite a bit of heat in the exhaust, this leads to multiple problems, firstly is that they need to inject extra fuel to prevent from melting the cats and secondly that waste heat means wasted work and of course wasted work means they need more fuel to get the "same" power from the engine.

I've seen someone considering turbo-compounding for them which at a stroke removes both issues and works very well at constant speed. You "use" the waste heat using it to directly drive the engine and that in itself reduces the exhaust temp which reduces the requirement to over-fuel.

Fastdruid

8,650 posts

153 months

Tuesday 3rd October 2017
quotequote all
unsprung said:
article said:
why on earth they haven't fitted this sportiest of engines to their little roadster, the Mazda with by far their best chassis of all.
A capital idea. Obviously this has been mentioned before (not by me, although I wish that I had). Imagine the change in character -- due not only to the physics of rotary operation, but also to possible savings in weight.
I'm sure I read something that the RX-8 drive train was developed as a semi-skunkworks project in an MX-5 "NC" chassis. Certainly most things almost bolt straight in. https://www.rx8club.com/australia-new-zealand-foru...


stavr0ss

198 posts

129 months

Tuesday 3rd October 2017
quotequote all
This is music to my ears, I've been enamored with Rotaries since my first go in an RX-8 years ago, can't wait for the 'vision' launch.

BIRMA

3,810 posts

195 months

Tuesday 3rd October 2017
quotequote all
I have fond memories of my RX7 luckily for me there was a local respected expert for the inevitable engine re-builds in my area. Lovely looking car with great performance. Here is my old car, wonder if it's still about?

unsprung

5,467 posts

125 months

Tuesday 3rd October 2017
quotequote all
Fastdruid said:
I think most of the issue is they "waste" quite a bit of heat in the exhaust, this leads to multiple problems, firstly is that they need to inject extra fuel to prevent from melting the cats and secondly that waste heat means wasted work and of course wasted work means they need more fuel to get the "same" power from the engine.

I've seen someone considering turbo-compounding for them which at a stroke removes both issues and works very well at constant speed. You "use" the waste heat using it to directly drive the engine and that in itself reduces the exhaust temp which reduces the requirement to over-fuel.
fascinating; and you mention constant speed operation as well; an illuminating post


Fastdruid said:
Certainly most things almost bolt straight in.
https://www.rx8club.com/australia-new-zealand-foru...
thanks for the link

Neith

621 posts

141 months

Tuesday 3rd October 2017
quotequote all
Interesting read; the original Cosmo is a beautiful car. The later Cosmo was another example of Mazda at it's strangest and is impossibly cool now.

I've owned a RX-8 for just over 2 months now and love it. It's easy to see why rotaries never really caught on in the wider automotive industry- the fuel consumption is horrific and they do require more care than a piston engine. Still, they're unbelievably smooth, refined and rev very freely. I personally just found the rotary engine to be incredibly interesting and knew I had to try one at some point.

I'd love a well looked after FC or FD RX-7 but they're pretty strong money now! As for the RX-8, I do think it's been a bit unfairly maligned over the years. It's such an oddball car and while there are problems a lot are down to owners not knowing how to look after a rotary. I also think a lot of people didn't like it as they expected a new RX-7, which the RX-8 wasn't intended to be.

As for the comment about putting a rotary in a MX-5, it's already been mentioned but the RX-8 is meant to apparently be based on a modified NC MX-5 chassis.

LordTwaddle

477 posts

126 months

Tuesday 3rd October 2017
quotequote all
The rotary was great for racing, the high revs and power from a lower CC does make for good track performance.... But in a road car it simply just DOESN'T work.

Low torque, they drink fuel like it's going out of fashion, they burn oil, they have uneven heat distribution, they can't be run cold at all, they need regular maintaining which is often a job for a specialist and if you do not look after them, they go pop after 60-80 thousand miles.

They work on track, put it in a road car you're asking for trouble. But then again some people like the difficulty of it... Like keeping venomous snakes or owning a range rather than a hob/oven.

Fastdruid

8,650 posts

153 months

Tuesday 3rd October 2017
quotequote all
LordTwaddle said:
The rotary was great for racing, the high revs and power from a lower CC does make for good track performance.... But in a road car it simply just DOESN'T work.

Low torque, they drink fuel like it's going out of fashion, they burn oil, they have uneven heat distribution, they can't be run cold at all, they need regular maintaining which is often a job for a specialist and if you do not look after them, they go pop after 60-80 thousand miles.
Apt username.

They're only low torque compared to bigger/turbocharged or diesel engines. About the same as a 2l NA petrol out of a 1.3 is not "low".



Other performance cars also burn oil, except not "by design". Go look at how much BMW's will burn and still be "in spec", it's more than an RX-8! I still think however they fked it by not making the oil delivery separate to the main oil. It's an utter pain to check and re-fill the oil, a separate tank using 2-stroke oil would have made life *far* easier.

They run perfectly well cold. They're not particularly keen at being shut off cold but then I've had more issues with "normal" engines flooding than we had with the RX-8.

Everything apart benefits from going to a specialist. Service costs while a bit regular are cheap though.

They have a regular rebuild cost. Akin to two stroke bikes. Honestly I think it would have been better if Mazda had just gone "every 50k, engine needs a rebuild, that'll be £2.5k" in the same way a 2-stroke will recommend replacement rings/piston/barrels it would have gone down far better..

Given that people will happily buy cars that cost *far* more in maintenance and throw far bigger bills I really think the hate for the RX-8 is down to it being too cheap, too popular and not special enough.


cib24

1,117 posts

154 months

Tuesday 3rd October 2017
quotequote all
Pistonheads, I really need higher resolution photos of all of those photos in the article please! Especially the first one!

Please provide it in 4k or at least 2560x1440! Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Horsetan

410 posts

208 months

Wednesday 4th October 2017
quotequote all
LordTwaddle said:
The rotary was great for racing, the high revs and power from a lower CC does make for good track performance.... But in a road car it simply just DOESN'T work.

Low torque, they drink fuel like it's going out of fashion, they burn oil, they have uneven heat distribution, they can't be run cold at all, they need regular maintaining which is often a job for a specialist and if you do not look after them, they go pop after 60-80 thousand miles......
Slightly OT, but I spent a good few years with a '73 Ro80, which had a 13B fitted. I experienced virtually none of the problems you stated, apart from the oil consumption which is an inherent part of rotary operation anyway.

Another Ro80 owner kept his original NSU wankel which was still going strong at 150,000 miles. His approach was to change the oil and oil filter at regular intervals, just as you would with a normal piston engine. It worked for him - no hint of a rebuild needed.

rotarymazda

538 posts

166 months

Wednesday 4th October 2017
quotequote all
article said:
why on earth they haven't fitted this sportiest of engines to their little roadster, the Mazda with by far their best chassis of all.
They didn't..... so I did. RX8 engine in a Mk1. 240bhp, 9500rpm and 1028kg keeping the 50:50 weight balance. Engine ported by BDC motorsports in the US, fitted/built by WGT in the UK.



Goes well with its big brother.



Downside of both is 20mpg on a good day.

James Junior

827 posts

158 months

Wednesday 4th October 2017
quotequote all
rotarymazda said:
They didn't..... so I did. RX8 engine in a Mk1. 240bhp, 9500rpm and 1028kg keeping the 50:50 weight balance. Engine ported by BDC motorsports in the US, fitted/built by WGT in the UK.



Goes well with its big brother.



Downside of both is 20mpg on a good day.
What a great project. Bet that MX5 is a riot to drive and the FD looks stunning. A beautiful pair to have on the drive. I've used WGT for their hub-mounted dyno a few times over the years. I hope to be in the market for an RX7 next year and would definitely use them for maintenence.

Any more pics of your RX7 you could share?

James Junior

827 posts

158 months

Wednesday 4th October 2017
quotequote all
cib24 said:
Pistonheads, I really need higher resolution photos of all of those photos in the article please! Especially the first one!

Please provide it in 4k or at least 2560x1440! Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This! Surely the headline picture is crying out to be pic of the week?!