Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
Witchfinder said:
I assume from your condemnation of subsidies for the wealthy that you'll be voting Labour on 12th December?
Don't be silly now, that would require the assumption ALL people really are equal, and there is no such thing as some people been more equal than others, even commard DA isn't that committed to the cause 
.SWoll said:
I assume you have a petrol station on your drive and have never needed to wait in a queue for a pump or at the counter to pay? I've done both ICE and EV over a decent time period and home charging is far more convenient for me at least.
Be interested in hearing your requirements and budget as appreciate they aren't for everyone.
I go to a petrol station when I'm on my way somewhere. I do most of my driving at quiet times, so I can't remember the last time I had to queue.Be interested in hearing your requirements and budget as appreciate they aren't for everyone.
I pay using an App, so no queuing at the counter, either.
As you say, I need to refuel/charge rarely anyway, give the relatively few miles I do, so it's of little consequence, really. Charging every night as jamoor suggests is pointless, so far as I'm concerned, and it's interesting to hear HeresJohnny's experience backing that up.
My fuel savings would be relatively small - I think it would take about 12 years to make up the difference in cost between my Golf and what the cheapest Tesla costs.
At present, one of the Leaf/Kona/Ioniq is the closest to the Golf, but none of them appeals particularly, especially given the relative costs, and cost to change/depreciation.
LG9k said:
My fuel savings would be relatively small - I think it would take about 12 years to make up the difference in cost between my Golf and what the cheapest Tesla costs.
At present, one of the Leaf/Kona/Ioniq is the closest to the Golf, but none of them appeals particularly, especially given the relative costs, and cost to change/depreciation.
the primary purpose is not to save money but to try and slow down the speed we are fAt present, one of the Leaf/Kona/Ioniq is the closest to the Golf, but none of them appeals particularly, especially given the relative costs, and cost to change/depreciation.
king the planetcost whilst important i would hope would be a secondary driver
VW have been flogging of the e golf very cheap recently, presumable getting rid of stock before the ID3 takes its place
wow the 2016 egolfs are only a few k cheaper than the new ones
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Friday 29th November 15:42
Dave Hedgehog said:
the primary purpose is not to save money but to try and slow down the speed we are fking the planet
cost whilst important i would hope would be a secondary driver
VW have been flogging of the e golf very cheap recently, presumable getting rid of stock before the ID3 takes its place
wow the 2016 egolfs are only a few k cheaper than the new ones
I've been using an EV (and my legs) to commute for the last 25 years, and my weekly shop is done by bicycle, so I'm well ahead on environmental points. king the planetcost whilst important i would hope would be a secondary driver
VW have been flogging of the e golf very cheap recently, presumable getting rid of stock before the ID3 takes its place
wow the 2016 egolfs are only a few k cheaper than the new ones
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Friday 29th November 15:42
Stopping pointless journeys would probably contribute more to cleaner air than a switch to EVs. For example, my neighbours driving partners 3/4 of a mile to the station (or their kids to school).
DonkeyApple said:
It’s pretty reminiscent of the London cycle ways which were intended for everyone to use but have transpired to just be private highways for white collar workers on £1000 pushbikes. A nice idea that has only benefited the affluent, people who probably weren’t using their cars to commute in the first instance.
Everyone CAN use them. You can't blame the idea on the fact that some people just don't bother. Affluent commuters could probably afford to drive into London but take their health and that of other people more responsibly that the masses. LG9k said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
the primary purpose is not to save money but to try and slow down the speed we are fking the planet
cost whilst important i would hope would be a secondary driver
VW have been flogging of the e golf very cheap recently, presumable getting rid of stock before the ID3 takes its place
wow the 2016 egolfs are only a few k cheaper than the new ones
I've been using an EV (and my legs) to commute for the last 25 years, and my weekly shop is done by bicycle, so I'm well ahead on environmental points. king the planetcost whilst important i would hope would be a secondary driver
VW have been flogging of the e golf very cheap recently, presumable getting rid of stock before the ID3 takes its place
wow the 2016 egolfs are only a few k cheaper than the new ones
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Friday 29th November 15:42
Stopping pointless journeys would probably contribute more to cleaner air than a switch to EVs. For example, my neighbours driving partners 3/4 of a mile to the station (or their kids to school).
jamoor said:
hyphen said:
Witchfinder said:
Humanity cannot afford to wait or delay the transition to low emissions transport.
Can you explain further on this point?How is me buying an EV, or the UK subsidising then, going to help what goes on in Delhi?
In any case there are better things many of us could do to reduce our emissions. By installing a GSHP, and going all electric at home I’ve cut our emissions far more than I ever could by changing to EVs.
Dave Hedgehog said:
LG9k said:
My fuel savings would be relatively small - I think it would take about 12 years to make up the difference in cost between my Golf and what the cheapest Tesla costs.
At present, one of the Leaf/Kona/Ioniq is the closest to the Golf, but none of them appeals particularly, especially given the relative costs, and cost to change/depreciation.
the primary purpose is not to save money but to try and slow down the speed we are fAt present, one of the Leaf/Kona/Ioniq is the closest to the Golf, but none of them appeals particularly, especially given the relative costs, and cost to change/depreciation.
king the planetcost whilst important i would hope would be a secondary driver
VW have been flogging of the e golf very cheap recently, presumable getting rid of stock before the ID3 takes its place
wow the 2016 egolfs are only a few k cheaper than the new ones
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Friday 29th November 15:42
Didn't give a stuff about the environment then and I still don't.
REALIST123 said:
jamoor said:
hyphen said:
Witchfinder said:
Humanity cannot afford to wait or delay the transition to low emissions transport.
Can you explain further on this point?How is me buying an EV, or the UK subsidising then, going to help what goes on in Delhi?
In any case there are better things many of us could do to reduce our emissions. By installing a GSHP, and going all electric at home I’ve cut our emissions far more than I ever could by changing to EVs.
jamoor said:
hyphen said:
Witchfinder said:
Humanity cannot afford to wait or delay the transition to low emissions transport.
Can you explain further on this point?LG9k said:
SWoll said:
I assume you have a petrol station on your drive and have never needed to wait in a queue for a pump or at the counter to pay? I've done both ICE and EV over a decent time period and home charging is far more convenient for me at least.
Be interested in hearing your requirements and budget as appreciate they aren't for everyone.
I go to a petrol station when I'm on my way somewhere. I do most of my driving at quiet times, so I can't remember the last time I had to queue.Be interested in hearing your requirements and budget as appreciate they aren't for everyone.
I pay using an App, so no queuing at the counter, either.
As you say, I need to refuel/charge rarely anyway, give the relatively few miles I do, so it's of little consequence, really. Charging every night as jamoor suggests is pointless, so far as I'm concerned, and it's interesting to hear HeresJohnny's experience backing that up.
My fuel savings would be relatively small - I think it would take about 12 years to make up the difference in cost between my Golf and what the cheapest Tesla costs.
At present, one of the Leaf/Kona/Ioniq is the closest to the Golf, but none of them appeals particularly, especially given the relative costs, and cost to change/depreciation.
jamoor said:
REALIST123 said:
jamoor said:
hyphen said:
Witchfinder said:
Humanity cannot afford to wait or delay the transition to low emissions transport.
Can you explain further on this point?How is me buying an EV, or the UK subsidising then, going to help what goes on in Delhi?
In any case there are better things many of us could do to reduce our emissions. By installing a GSHP, and going all electric at home I’ve cut our emissions far more than I ever could by changing to EVs.
But as I said, how is me buying a subsidised EV in the UK going to help what’s going on in Delhi?
REALIST123 said:
Quite. Far too many. Why isn’t that being addressed?
But as I said, how is me buying a subsidised EV in the UK going to help what’s going on in Delhi?
It's quite simple really.But as I said, how is me buying a subsidised EV in the UK going to help what’s going on in Delhi?
We're a testbed, with lots of disposable income and early adopters. Making this technology available at the very top level allows companies to nearly re-invent the car while the first world pays for it. This then trickles down to less and less expensive vehicles, which eventually also get made to countries that are lesser off. This can take years or maybe decades, but "smart"phones and internet connectivity, as well as GPS and drones for example has changed farming in Africa forever. All of these technologies were developed in ... developed countries. No-one put up over 30 NAVSTAR satellites to make some farmer in Africa happy, but they do reap the rewards now.
What's even more is that these people skipped over some technology. Laptops, desktops, landlines and internet weren't as widespread as in the first world, but cell towers can cover a lot more and are a lot easier set up. Similar in these developing countries, all sorts of complexity for environmental reasons we add to ICE cars goes out. New cars produced there often don't even have them. Making the jump to viable EV's would be a game changer.
ZesPak said:
REALIST123 said:
Quite. Far too many. Why isn’t that being addressed?
But as I said, how is me buying a subsidised EV in the UK going to help what’s going on in Delhi?
It's quite simple really.But as I said, how is me buying a subsidised EV in the UK going to help what’s going on in Delhi?
We're a testbed, with lots of disposable income and early adopters. Making this technology available at the very top level allows companies to nearly re-invent the car while the first world pays for it. This then trickles down to less and less expensive vehicles, which eventually also get made to countries that are lesser off. This can take years or maybe decades, but "smart"phones and internet connectivity, as well as GPS and drones for example has changed farming in Africa forever. All of these technologies were developed in ... developed countries. No-one put up over 30 NAVSTAR satellites to make some farmer in Africa happy, but they do reap the rewards now.
What's even more is that these people skipped over some technology. Laptops, desktops, landlines and internet weren't as widespread as in the first world, but cell towers can cover a lot more and are a lot easier set up. Similar in these developing countries, all sorts of complexity for environmental reasons we add to ICE cars goes out. New cars produced there often don't even have them. Making the jump to viable EV's would be a game changer.
The mass polouting vehicles in china and India are 2 and 3 wheeled stuff.l along with cheap car models that wouldn't pass on safety in the western world.
They already have cheaply built, cheap to buy, lightweight EVs on the market to challenge these.
What's a Tesla got to do with anything?
ZesPak said:
REALIST123 said:
Quite. Far too many. Why isn’t that being addressed?
But as I said, how is me buying a subsidised EV in the UK going to help what’s going on in Delhi?
It's quite simple really.But as I said, how is me buying a subsidised EV in the UK going to help what’s going on in Delhi?
We're a testbed, with lots of disposable income and early adopters. Making this technology available at the very top level allows companies to nearly re-invent the car while the first world pays for it. This then trickles down to less and less expensive vehicles, which eventually also get made to countries that are lesser off. This can take years or maybe decades, but "smart"phones and internet connectivity, as well as GPS and drones for example has changed farming in Africa forever. All of these technologies were developed in ... developed countries. No-one put up over 30 NAVSTAR satellites to make some farmer in Africa happy, but they do reap the rewards now.
What's even more is that these people skipped over some technology. Laptops, desktops, landlines and internet weren't as widespread as in the first world, but cell towers can cover a lot more and are a lot easier set up. Similar in these developing countries, all sorts of complexity for environmental reasons we add to ICE cars goes out. New cars produced there often don't even have them. Making the jump to viable EV's would be a game changer.
One of the biggest polluters in Delhi and India more widely are the 2 stroke vehicles of which there are millions.
They haven’t replaced any of them with the better technology that we’ve had many years.
DonkeyApple said:
If the urban air issue is such a problem why don’t we incentivise the person who has bought an old Mondeo because of primarily economic drivers to replace it with the smallest engined Fiesta etc?
Selective quote from a very interesting discussion (thanks)!IMO, as it always seems to be with cars, it's really not about the air quality or the environment. Scrappage schemes, diesel incentives, evolving emissions targets... On the face of it this is all done to steer people into cleaner, better ways of transport. But IMO underlying it's all driven by industrial / economic policies. "The Limits to Growth" came out in 72?
Regarding the EV subsidies I think politicians have to walk a fine line. The part of the population that is "left behind" now has enough political options on the far left or far right to become a real problem. If you ask an AfD voter for an opinion on the German green party, it's pretty likely the renewable and EV subsidies will be mentioned. They do not see it as fair that the general public is tax funding the EV and solar panels on the house of their bosses...
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff