RE: PH Service History: Down the plug hole
Sunday 3rd December 2017
I notice BMW has finally got around to launching its i8 Roadster over in LA this week. I have to admit, I've a bit of a soft spot for the i8. Yes, I know - it's not a proper supercar, despite being junior supercar cash. And yes, I'm also aware its dead steering and less-than-stellar performance mean even as a sports car it struggles to match the best.
But look at the thing. Rarely, if ever, have I been able to allow an i8 to pass by without pausing to admire the low snout, the gloriously eccentric flying buttresses or the judicious use of colour. To drive, it's as other-worldly as it looks, too; the three-pot hum augmented by the subtle whirr of the electric motors, whose shove ensures strong and seamless acceleration while you marvel at the lavish, wrap-around dashboard.
Depreciation's a funny thing with electric cars. While at the bottom end of the market the Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe have dropped like stones, the more desirable Teslas have done the very opposite - in stark contrast to predictions from the industry's valuation experts, I might add. Blame lack of supply combined with high desirability: compare the £45,990 price tag of this early Model S 85, endowed as it is with a low 20,000 miles and a full history, with a BMW 730d (£22,117), Audi A8 3.0 TDI (£23,990), or even a Mercedes S-Class Hybrid (£39,994) of a similar age and mileage.
The other point to come from all of this is that the dinosaur-powered barges are looking more and more like stunning bargains. Why pay £22k for a year-old 3 Series when you can have a 7 Series that's barely run in for the same money? (That is, mind you, a column for another day, and a topic I'll be sure to revisit before too long.)
PH Service History: Down the plug hole
Would you buy a used electrified car? With more and more desirable options appearing the answer might not be as obvious as you think
So as glamorous as the new i8 Roadster might be, I'm more excited by the prospect of one of the early cars, which have now dropped in price to less than £60,000. Take this example, the cheapest in the classifieds at the time of writing; as an approved used car, it has a guaranteed full service history, and while the mileage is a smidge above average, it's still done less than 30k - barely run in, in other words. Yours for £58,000 - which means, compared with cars that started out at roughly the same sort of price, it's depreciating less quickly than the BMW M6 (but more so than the Audi R8).
Of course, stories abound of issues with Tesla build quality, and perhaps these will take their toll on values; either way, I'd have to question whether the Tesla's really worth the extra cash as a used buy. OK, so you do get the rapid standing-start performance everyone talks about - but only if you're doing stratospheric mileage are you ever going to recoup the additional £20,000 or so in savings on fuel.
But what if you want to spend that £22,000 on a bit of electrified performance motoring? Well in that case, I reckon a used Golf GTE is looking like a sound bet. At a shade under £20k, a two-year-old example like this will cost you more than the equivalent GTD, or even the GTI, but the flipside is that GTE prices show that the market does value plug-ins like these; prices aren't crashing and burning once they hit a year or two old. Chances are that trend will remain the same and you'll see back more of that initial investment when you come to sell on. Let's not forget, too, that you can plug your GTE in at home and enjoy bimbling around town for very little money at all on the electric range (31 miles officially, but reckon on closer to 20 in the real world).
There we have it, then: you don't have to buy new to jump on the plug-in bandwagon, meaning electrified cars will soon be within reach of us all. Now all I have to do is put aside a chunk of my heady motoring journalist's salary, and I'll be able to buy one of those i8s in... hmm. About 187 years, I reckon.
 |
 |
Discussion
I have just bought a used electric for the commute.
2 years old. 20,000 miles. 12 bars on the battery. With a charge point installed in my house and a couple of free services chucked in.
Just over 8k.
Or on the very un-PH “rent it for three years and give it back” schem, £137 a month.
The snotter it replaces was £90 a month in fuel and tax.
2 years old. 20,000 miles. 12 bars on the battery. With a charge point installed in my house and a couple of free services chucked in.
Just over 8k.
Or on the very un-PH “rent it for three years and give it back” schem, £137 a month.
The snotter it replaces was £90 a month in fuel and tax.
Tesla do seem to be hold there own value wise compared to petrol powered rivals. I think their are a few things supporting them, first demand, second it's still cutting edge the only proper full electric vehicle you can buy, it's the first proper useable electric car (so one for the history books) and third it's a nice looking car and I was very impressed with the base model I had a drive in a couple of years back, prices on new ones are higher now too.
The I8 I'm not so sure, it's a hybrid, stop gap tech and it's being sold pretty much on its tech which compared to the Tesla was outdated at launch.I feel the reason it's dropped so much is because a traditional supercar appeals more for those wanting a sports car and those wanting the future today their is no real alternative to a Tesla.
BMW should have been more ambitious and gone for the first all electric supercar here, theirs nothing really bold or groundbreaking about it and I suspect it will not become as desired as the Z8 which had, beauty and a very nice sounding motor (always strong attributes for a future classic) to fall back on as it aged.
The I8 I'm not so sure, it's a hybrid, stop gap tech and it's being sold pretty much on its tech which compared to the Tesla was outdated at launch.I feel the reason it's dropped so much is because a traditional supercar appeals more for those wanting a sports car and those wanting the future today their is no real alternative to a Tesla.
BMW should have been more ambitious and gone for the first all electric supercar here, theirs nothing really bold or groundbreaking about it and I suspect it will not become as desired as the Z8 which had, beauty and a very nice sounding motor (always strong attributes for a future classic) to fall back on as it aged.
EV have ridiculously low running costs, and get benefits for congestion zone running, etc. As far as being a fit for purpose cheap runabout, I think its a great solution.
Generally soulless, but then it never set out to be anything like that.
I dont really get the idea of spending 40-50k on one though, because if you're talking second hand and wanting sports, then presumably you could afford multiple cars, and therefore have sufficient coin to also afford a house and land to park them on. Who buys a Ferrari then complains they cant afford to park 2 cars?
But as for cheap motoring, I think a used EV is a brilliant thing.
Generally soulless, but then it never set out to be anything like that.
I dont really get the idea of spending 40-50k on one though, because if you're talking second hand and wanting sports, then presumably you could afford multiple cars, and therefore have sufficient coin to also afford a house and land to park them on. Who buys a Ferrari then complains they cant afford to park 2 cars?
But as for cheap motoring, I think a used EV is a brilliant thing.
I’m sure other people have wondered about the following, so I’ll ask it out loud;
Whilst I applied the concept of electrikity-powered cars, I can’t consider one if I want to take the family on holiday by car to France.
Why?
Well, as I see it, I fill up my car with electrickety before leaving home, and by the time I get down to the Chunnel I’m thinking, ‘hmmn, could do with a few more ohms, amps, bolts etc before I get into France’
So I bumble over to the nearest charging point only to find queues to use them.
And it’s not like a splash-and-dash with a fossil fuelled car, I have to sit around for an hour or so for a ‘quick’ charge (ok, I might have the time wrong, but you get the gist)
Or, when I get into or just past Calais, I try the same, only to encounter queues again.
Driving down to the south of France would need to be carefully planned as far as I see it as it will take considerably longer due to the eased time just sat pouring some more electrickety into the tank.
SWMBO asked why they don’t make the roof of such cars out of solar panels, despite the weight, cost etc and also the fact that cloudy countries like the uk won’t have enough sunshine to make a reasonable difference.
Anyway, I’ll stick with my petrol Quattro and diesel Octavia estate based on that, thank you very much.
Whilst I applied the concept of electrikity-powered cars, I can’t consider one if I want to take the family on holiday by car to France.
Why?
Well, as I see it, I fill up my car with electrickety before leaving home, and by the time I get down to the Chunnel I’m thinking, ‘hmmn, could do with a few more ohms, amps, bolts etc before I get into France’
So I bumble over to the nearest charging point only to find queues to use them.
And it’s not like a splash-and-dash with a fossil fuelled car, I have to sit around for an hour or so for a ‘quick’ charge (ok, I might have the time wrong, but you get the gist)
Or, when I get into or just past Calais, I try the same, only to encounter queues again.
Driving down to the south of France would need to be carefully planned as far as I see it as it will take considerably longer due to the eased time just sat pouring some more electrickety into the tank.
SWMBO asked why they don’t make the roof of such cars out of solar panels, despite the weight, cost etc and also the fact that cloudy countries like the uk won’t have enough sunshine to make a reasonable difference.
Anyway, I’ll stick with my petrol Quattro and diesel Octavia estate based on that, thank you very much.
GranCab said:
A friend of mine has a BMW i3 bought new as a company car 3 and a bit years ago @ £36K ... he was recently offered £9K (with 26,0000 miles on the clock) for it as a trade-in against a new i3......
The dealer really didn't want it then or it's in an appalling state. The hybrids seem to start at about £18k with the pure electric a few k less.rtz62 said:
I’m sure other people have wondered about the following, so I’ll ask it out loud;
Whilst I applied the concept of electrikity-powered cars, I can’t consider one if I want to take the family on holiday by car to France.
Why?
Well, as I see it, I fill up my car with electrickety before leaving home, and by the time I get down to the Chunnel I’m thinking, ‘hmmn, could do with a few more ohms, amps, bolts etc before I get into France’
So I bumble over to the nearest charging point only to find queues to use them.
And it’s not like a splash-and-dash with a fossil fuelled car, I have to sit around for an hour or so for a ‘quick’ charge (ok, I might have the time wrong, but you get the gist)
Or, when I get into or just past Calais, I try the same, only to encounter queues again.
Driving down to the south of France would need to be carefully planned as far as I see it as it will take considerably longer due to the eased time just sat pouring some more electrickety into the tank.
SWMBO asked why they don’t make the roof of such cars out of solar panels, despite the weight, cost etc and also the fact that cloudy countries like the uk won’t have enough sunshine to make a reasonable difference.
Anyway, I’ll stick with my petrol Quattro and diesel Octavia estate based on that, thank you very much.
I don't think many other people drive to the South of France. I certainly don't. So I doubt they wondered it.Whilst I applied the concept of electrikity-powered cars, I can’t consider one if I want to take the family on holiday by car to France.
Why?
Well, as I see it, I fill up my car with electrickety before leaving home, and by the time I get down to the Chunnel I’m thinking, ‘hmmn, could do with a few more ohms, amps, bolts etc before I get into France’
So I bumble over to the nearest charging point only to find queues to use them.
And it’s not like a splash-and-dash with a fossil fuelled car, I have to sit around for an hour or so for a ‘quick’ charge (ok, I might have the time wrong, but you get the gist)
Or, when I get into or just past Calais, I try the same, only to encounter queues again.
Driving down to the south of France would need to be carefully planned as far as I see it as it will take considerably longer due to the eased time just sat pouring some more electrickety into the tank.
SWMBO asked why they don’t make the roof of such cars out of solar panels, despite the weight, cost etc and also the fact that cloudy countries like the uk won’t have enough sunshine to make a reasonable difference.
Anyway, I’ll stick with my petrol Quattro and diesel Octavia estate based on that, thank you very much.
rtz62 said:
I’m sure other people have wondered about the following, so I’ll ask it out loud;
Whilst I applied the concept of electrikity-powered cars, I can’t consider one if I want to take the family on holiday by car to France.
Why?
Well, as I see it, I fill up my car with electrickety before leaving home, and by the time I get down to the Chunnel I’m thinking, ‘hmmn, could do with a few more ohms, amps, bolts etc before I get into France’
So I bumble over to the nearest charging point only to find queues to use them.
And it’s not like a splash-and-dash with a fossil fuelled car, I have to sit around for an hour or so for a ‘quick’ charge (ok, I might have the time wrong, but you get the gist)
Or, when I get into or just past Calais, I try the same, only to encounter queues again.
Driving down to the south of France would need to be carefully planned as far as I see it as it will take considerably longer due to the eased time just sat pouring some more electrickety into the tank.
SWMBO asked why they don’t make the roof of such cars out of solar panels, despite the weight, cost etc and also the fact that cloudy countries like the uk won’t have enough sunshine to make a reasonable difference.
Anyway, I’ll stick with my petrol Quattro and diesel Octavia estate based on that, thank you very much.
The Chunnel train runs on electrickery. Surely they could make some of that available at a socket?Whilst I applied the concept of electrikity-powered cars, I can’t consider one if I want to take the family on holiday by car to France.
Why?
Well, as I see it, I fill up my car with electrickety before leaving home, and by the time I get down to the Chunnel I’m thinking, ‘hmmn, could do with a few more ohms, amps, bolts etc before I get into France’
So I bumble over to the nearest charging point only to find queues to use them.
And it’s not like a splash-and-dash with a fossil fuelled car, I have to sit around for an hour or so for a ‘quick’ charge (ok, I might have the time wrong, but you get the gist)
Or, when I get into or just past Calais, I try the same, only to encounter queues again.
Driving down to the south of France would need to be carefully planned as far as I see it as it will take considerably longer due to the eased time just sat pouring some more electrickety into the tank.
SWMBO asked why they don’t make the roof of such cars out of solar panels, despite the weight, cost etc and also the fact that cloudy countries like the uk won’t have enough sunshine to make a reasonable difference.
Anyway, I’ll stick with my petrol Quattro and diesel Octavia estate based on that, thank you very much.
GranCab said:
A friend of mine has a BMW i3 bought new as a company car 3 and a bit years ago @ £36K ... he was recently offered £9K (with 26,0000 miles on the clock) for it as a trade-in against a new i3......
They are in the classifieds north of 15k. Ill give him 9k for one in the morning..cashLowtimer said:
Buy the car that is best suited to the way you use it most of the time. Rent the car (or van) you need once a year.
Pretty much. We have a Leaf for the wife and a GT86 for me. The Leaf's an excellent shopping trolley and basically free to own - petrol savings cover depreciation on the stupidly low purchase price. And the 86 is a surprisingly good commuter, is OK for mid-haul, and allows me to go play on a track when I want to. But between the two of them we don't have a vehicle that's useable for longhaul or for carrying lots of junk, and we don't have a way to carry more than 2 people more than 50 miles. So the once or twice a year we need to solve one of those problems, we just go rent something. Works fine. Admittedly, it wouldn't work if we had kids, only had parking for one vehicle, didn't have overnight access to a power point, weren't close to a car rental place, or routinely needed both of us to do more than 50 miles in a day, so it's not for everyone. But I bet it'd work for a lot more people than are prepared to try it.
cutslick said:
GranCab said:
A friend of mine has a BMW i3 bought new as a company car 3 and a bit years ago @ £36K ... he was recently offered £9K (with 26,0000 miles on the clock) for it as a trade-in against a new i3......
They are in the classifieds north of 15k. Ill give him 9k for one in the morning..cashWhoever says the i8's performance is lacking should get their head examined.
People get it wrong. It's not the outright power that makes it attractive, it's the torque figure and the immediacy of it. In the real world (and in all weather), it is quicker than -say- my Aston v12v.
Pound for pound, it is the best value sportscar one can buy today. Hybrid or not.
The only reason why it's not more expensive is that a year after launch, bmw arbitrarily elected to double production. They were trading at a premium before that.
It's an exceptional gt / sportscar, that's totally painless to own, super economical and that makes you feel really special.
People get it wrong. It's not the outright power that makes it attractive, it's the torque figure and the immediacy of it. In the real world (and in all weather), it is quicker than -say- my Aston v12v.
Pound for pound, it is the best value sportscar one can buy today. Hybrid or not.
The only reason why it's not more expensive is that a year after launch, bmw arbitrarily elected to double production. They were trading at a premium before that.
It's an exceptional gt / sportscar, that's totally painless to own, super economical and that makes you feel really special.
Edited by erics on Sunday 3rd December 22:52
Edited by erics on Wednesday 6th December 07:47
erics said:
Whoever says the i8's performance is lacking should get their head examined.
People get it wrong. It's not the outright power that makes it attractive, it's the torque figure and the immediacy of it. In the real world (and in all weather), it is quicke than -say- my Aston v12v.
Pound for pound, it is the best value sportscar one can buy today. Hybrid or not.
The only reason why it's not more expensive is that a year after launch, bmw arbitrarily elected to double production. They were trading at a premium before that.
It's an exceptional gt / sportscar, that's totally painless to own, super economical and that makes you feel really special.
Exactly, in a sense I'd actually argue that the i8 is actually a supercar, not for it's performance but for it's sheer headturning potential. I'm almost certain that whirring up (in virtual silence) in an i8 and opening one of those gullwing doors will turn just as many heads as a 488, possibly more as people will be less likely to think you're some rich berk in a Ferrari.People get it wrong. It's not the outright power that makes it attractive, it's the torque figure and the immediacy of it. In the real world (and in all weather), it is quicke than -say- my Aston v12v.
Pound for pound, it is the best value sportscar one can buy today. Hybrid or not.
The only reason why it's not more expensive is that a year after launch, bmw arbitrarily elected to double production. They were trading at a premium before that.
It's an exceptional gt / sportscar, that's totally painless to own, super economical and that makes you feel really special.
Edited by erics on Sunday 3rd December 22:52
You also get a car that's packed with tech, is perfectly usable as a daily driver, and is apparently rather good fun to drive.
rockin said:
GranCab said:
A friend of mine has a BMW i3 bought new as a company car 3 and a bit years ago @ £36K ... he was recently offered £9K (with 26,0000 miles on the clock) for it as a trade-in against a new i3......
That's shocking. i3 - pertinent topic. Mine is due off lease next week. All electric with nice options (pro-nav, nice alloys, tinted windows, HK speaker upgrade, rapid charge connection). Now 2 years old and 11500 miles.
Lease company has offered it at £16,700. I think it's still a bit high (it is the earlier battery model) but I have been really tempted as its a great car and I'm probably going to lease a new one anyway. The appeal of the LCI model and holding out for the next battery upgrade later in 2018 is what's putting me off keeping it.
£9k though. Bandits. It's a steal at that price.
Lease company has offered it at £16,700. I think it's still a bit high (it is the earlier battery model) but I have been really tempted as its a great car and I'm probably going to lease a new one anyway. The appeal of the LCI model and holding out for the next battery upgrade later in 2018 is what's putting me off keeping it.
£9k though. Bandits. It's a steal at that price.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff