RE: Audi R8 RWS vs Porsche 911 GT3

RE: Audi R8 RWS vs Porsche 911 GT3

Saturday 24th March 2018

Audi R8 RWS vs Porsche 911 GT3

The rear-wheel-drive R8 is a departure for Audi Sport. How best to measure its success? Robin, meet Batman



To you and I, the R8 RWS is just another version of Audi's mid-engined supercar - RWS stands for Rear Wheel Series, which indicates the removal of the front driveshafts. This is the first rear-driven R8 and it'll be limited to 999 units worldwide, split across Coupe and Spyder body styles. The R8 range grows a little; life goes on.

But within the boardrooms and offices of Audi Sport, the R8 RWS must seem like an enormous gamble. In fact, we know it's an enormous gamble for Audi because it's taken the company twelve years to take it. For one thing, building a rear-wheel drive version of a halo model undermines the core brand value Audi has spent the last few decades cultivating. If we all drive the RWS and say it's more enjoyable than the existing R8, what on earth does that say about Quattro? It's like Tesla turning its back on batteries and electric motors altogether and fitting its next model with a stinking great V8 instead.


And for another, even more troubling thing, by producing this car Audi opens itself up to the most bruising head-to-head comparison of them all; the exact comparison we've chosen to make right here. It's an unspoken rule in the motoring world that you do not take on the Porsche 911 GT3. Audi has just done exactly that. Make no mistake, then; this car is an almighty punt.

By unbolting the standard R8's four-wheel drive gubbins, Audi has removed 50kg. It couldn't trim that same amount out again if it ditched the powered leather seats in favour of two beanbags and replaced every square inch of glass with clingfilm. There's no dynamic steering and no adaptive damping, and the differential is a very unsophisticated mechanical LSD. The engine is the lesser of the two 5.2-litre normally aspirated V10s, but it's still good for 540hp and 398lb ft. All things considered, this is the R8 at its simplest and most uncluttered since the original was retired three years ago.

Invariably, it'll be the edgiest R8, too, the one that demands the most of its driver. In a bid to make the RWS anything other than a widow-maker for the modern era, though, Audi has tweaked the suspension geometry and fitted a stiffer front anti-roll bar. Rear-wheel drive makes the R8 a little more dangerous; dialling in a smidge more understeer makes it a bit safer again.


Overall, the changes add up to the sweetest and most enjoyable second-generation R8 so far. The steering is uncorrupted now, and although it's certainly not the last word in detail it is more natural and more faithful than any four-wheel drive R8's helm, particularly any one that's fitted with dynamic steering. The RWS is just a more pleasant and immersive thing to thread between the hedgerows, and there's a lightness and a newfound responsiveness to the front axle. The dampers, meanwhile, may be fixed rate, but they strike a good balance between bump absorption and body control.

You don't so much feel the extra push that's been dialled into the chassis as sense the front tyres just starting to scrub as you really stretch the R8 out. Nor has disconnecting the front axle turned the R8 into some murderous oversteer machine. There's so much inherent traction, even in the lower gears, that you're trying extremely hard to unstick the thing before it starts to slide.


What's been lost? Some outright cross-country pace, I'm sure, but only if you measure these things to the tenth of a second. And it probably is true that you would drive a four-wheel drive R8 a touch more boldly, flinging it into bends with more abandon, safe in the knowledge that you could dig yourself out of all manner of trouble just by hoofing it. But for every one of those brain-out drives across some windswept moor, there must be 99 when you have only the space or inclination to link two or three bends, or lean on it around a deserted roundabout, and it's in these short-lived but frequent moments that the RWS is a touch more engaging than any other current R8. Its steering is crisper; its chassis balance more delicate.

But we aren't here to compare the RWS to any other R8. At first you might say the Audi is every bit as thrilling as the 911 GT3, because it's just as fast and it makes its own ear-splitting soundtrack, but when you chop and change between the two and drive each car across the same stretch of road, the gulf between them begins to emerge.

The Audi does have the more fluid low speed ride, but at higher speeds that manifests as looser body control and slightly fluffier responses. The GT3 steers with more tactility, too, and its engine is more feral and intoxicating. For all that the RWS is the most rewarding model in the R8 range, it is made to feel rather half-hearted in the company of the 911 GT3. It's like jumping out of an aeroplane with an instructor strapped to your back compared to a solo jump.


What the R8 has on its side, though, is presence and theatre. It looks absurdly low and wide and the engine is in the middle and, look, you can see it through that glass panel! And the view from the cabin is pure supercar. A 911 GT3 is really just a 911 and you see them all the time. But all that stuff is fleeting, none of it matters beyond the first week of ownership. An extraordinary driving experience is more nourishing; much longer-lasting.

In all fairness to Audi Sport, though, it didn't set out to build a car as single-minded as a GT3. But if you introduce a sports car with a naturally aspirated engine that develops something like 500hp, then charge around £110,000 for it, you invite the comparison. You couldn't write a series of novels about an English super-spy who carries a Walther PPK and penetrates as many secret volcano lairs as knockout brunettes, then get all cross when someone mentions the B-word.

All of which leaves me feeling there's more to come. Well, the use of 'series' sort of implies as much, doesn't it? Perhaps, some day soon, Audi will drop the Plus engine - with its 610hp peak output, its 9000rpm redline, and its more ferocious power delivery - into this rear-driven chassis, and perhaps it'll fit more aggressive tyres than Pirelli P Zeroes, and maybe it'll sharpen up the car's responses. That really would give the brains at Weissach something to fret about.

Audi R8 RWS - Specifications
Engine 5,104cc, V10
Transmission seven-speed twin-clutch automatic, rear-wheel drive
Power (hp) 540@7,800rpm
Torque (lb ft) 398@6,500rpm
0-62mph 3.7 sec
Top speed 199mph
Weight 1,590kg
MPG 22.8
CO2 283g/km
Price £112,450

 

Porsche 911 GT3 - Specifications
Engine 3,996cc, flat-six
Transmission seven-speed PDK automatic, rear-wheel drive
Power (hp) 500@8,250rpm
Torque (lb ft) 339@6,000rpm
0-62mph 3.4 sec
Top speed 198mph
Weight 1,505kg
MPG 22.2
CO2 288g/km
Price £111,802
   
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Author
Discussion

Nerdherder

Original Poster:

1,773 posts

97 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
The outcome of the comparison will surprise no one. I'd love to drive either of these machines and my dream garage has a gt3 touring in it. I do wonder if anyone produces hydraulic steering rack conversions?

Nerdherder

Original Poster:

1,773 posts

97 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
Ps; Well written and superbly structured article. Could be a bit less formula-ish/have some more personal feel and passion thrown in, but that's nitpicking.
Pps; Am I the only one who only just noticed that Dan Prosser writes for PH btw?

Edited by Nerdherder on Saturday 24th March 05:22


Edited by Nerdherder on Saturday 24th March 05:24

Esceptico

7,472 posts

109 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
The same comparison appeared in Autocar a day or so ago. Written by the same person?

One advantage of the R8 is that you might have a chance of ordering one.

Brett748

919 posts

166 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
Very good article and fair play to Audi for making it because as the article points out it goes against their core brand philosophy.

The gear selector is horrific tough, it looks like it belongs in an early 2000s MPV.

dvshannow

1,580 posts

136 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
They should have compared it to the GTS the GT3 is more a track car and you cant buy one so kinda irrelevant

Besides as a drivers car a 991.2 GTS coupe is imo better than the r8 despite price diff .because the GT3 exists people who dont drive them all can tend to think oh the GT3 must surely be the one.

Quickmoose

4,494 posts

123 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
What the Audi has is drama and theatre....
Sorry what?
Aside from a wonderful NA 5.2 V10, it has nothing for me just derivative, with an A1 face and bland lack of styling and detail from there backwards. To look at inside and out, there is a distinct lack of drama and theatre for me....
The Mark 1 puts this one in the shade with it's subtle curves and blade detail.

I hardly notice new R8s on the road, aside from the fact they are low....

If a 'supercar' is your only car, then I guess youd want the baladness that comes with trying to do everything well... If I ever had £120k disposable I'd have at least 2 cars specialising...one in creature comfort and tech, and the other in actual drama and theatre.... there's no way this RWS 'competes' against a GT3.
Totally different buyers, and that was when and IF you could get a GT3...

sege

558 posts

222 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
I think this article would be a lot easier to read if it avoided the contrived premise to set up the cliched silly narrative around 2WD vs 4WD, in order to (surprise!) contradict those silly cliche's when it finally got into actually describing what the R8 is like to drive.....
As it is, i didn't make it to the end sorry.
No doubt it's the nicest R8 to drive since the very original, but still not a be all and end all drivers car? I'll never know.....

Ares

11,000 posts

120 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
Quickmoose said:
What the Audi has is drama and theatre....
Sorry what?
Aside from a wonderful NA 5.2 V10, it has nothing for me just derivative, with an A1 face and bland lack of styling and detail from there backwards. To look at inside and out, there is a distinct lack of drama and theatre for me....
The Mark 1 puts this one in the shade with it's subtle curves and blade detail.

I hardly notice new R8s on the road, aside from the fact they are low....

If a 'supercar' is your only car, then I guess youd want the baladness that comes with trying to do everything well... If I ever had £120k disposable I'd have at least 2 cars specialising...one in creature comfort and tech, and the other in actual drama and theatre.... there's no way this RWS 'competes' against a GT3.
Totally different buyers, and that was when and IF you could get a GT3...
Thats a bit disingenuous when comparing it with a Porsche. The R8 is easy to spot on the road. Loads round here, I think more presence that the Mk1, and that ignoring the fact you hear them well before you see them.

The Porsche is just as formulaic. Increasingly generic front end (still lovely, but still generic) - see either of the cars coming towards you, the R8 is more distinguishable from it's lesser brethren than the Porsche is, IMO.

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

170 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
Just don't get how on the British Public Roads where you can't "Drift" around a corner at 90 mph a 2WD car is better than a 4WD Audi R8.
Any half decent driver in the 4WD version could keep up with a race driver in the 2WD.
Just pointless unless you want to hoon around a track all day and that doesn't strike me as audi's type of customer in the first place

As for a GT3, what's there to discuss as you can't get one period unless you are royalty. Again another pointless car unless you are one of the chosen few so lets not even give it air time

Helicopter123

8,831 posts

156 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
Right, that's decided then, off to my OPC to place a deposit on a GT3.

Hang on...

Dr G

15,175 posts

242 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
dvshannow said:
They should have compared it to the GTS
I was thinking exactly the same as soon as I saw the headline; I like a lot of Dan Prosser's writing/videos but in this article (moreso in the video) he just comes across as a Porsche fanboy. Sorry.

The GT3 here is a single malt and the R8 is a margarita. They're different kinds of fun for different occasions.

ZX10R NIN

27,607 posts

125 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
The GT3 was always going to win this it's a more focused car, I'm glad that Audi built the RWS R8 though.

Sierra Mike

878 posts

195 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
Am I alone in thinking this was a missed opportunity by Audi to sell 999 manual RWD R8s? driving

Edited by Sierra Mike on Saturday 24th March 11:24

Dr G

15,175 posts

242 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
Sierra Mike said:
Am I alone in thinking this was a missed opportunity by Audi to sell 999 manual RWD R8s? driving

Edited by Sierra Mike on Saturday 24th March 11:24
They stopped making manuals because nobody wanted them.

Jex

838 posts

128 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
Dr G said:
They stopped making manuals because nobody wanted them.
They stopped making manuals because nobody [who could afford a new one] wanted them?

Shiv_P

2,747 posts

105 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
PH:

Audi R8

BORING 4WD TOO SLOW NOT SUPERCAR

Audi R8 V10 Plus

BORING 4WD

Audi R8 rear wheel drive

BORING AUDI

Can't win...


Oz83

688 posts

139 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
Seems to me it would have been less risky for Audi to have gone mental on the rws. Make a proper drivers’ car and no comparisons can be drawn to the 4wd everyday version.

Gameface

16,565 posts

77 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
Jex said:
Dr G said:
They stopped making manuals because nobody wanted them.
They stopped making manuals because nobody [who could afford a new one] wanted them?
Same thing.

Audi are in the business of building and selling new cars.

mcelliott

8,666 posts

181 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
I’m a bit of a Porsche fan boy but I’ve always loved the the look of the r8 the porker just looks boring. An r8 is my next car for sure.

Helicopter123

8,831 posts

156 months

Saturday 24th March 2018
quotequote all
Jex said:
Dr G said:
They stopped making manuals because nobody wanted them.
They stopped making manuals because nobody [who could afford a new one] wanted them?
Surely anyone with enough desire could have a manual 'on finance' though?

Too many keyboard warriors unprepared to sink their own cash into a new car.