1992 Pre cat fails MOT because computer says it needs one...

[jmn]

My Nov 92 Precat Griff has just failed it's MOT at a TVR friendly garage because new DVLA software says it needs a catalytic converter!

TVRSSW are making enquiries with the TVR Club.

Computer says that anything built after 1/7/92 must have a CC.

All sensible suggestions gratefully received.

[N7GTX]

I believe the new regulations do not come into force until the 20th May so it should not have failed

In the new regs 2018, passenger cars first used on or after 1/8/92 and mentioned in the annex require a catalyst test. All the Chims and Griffs are mentioned in the annex as previously. This is the same as before and I'm sure there was a get out for those TVRs never originally fitted with cats.

All passenger cars first used on or after 1/8/95 must have a cat test.

So I suspect this is another cock up when writing the new MOT test manual. All you need to know is in this pdf: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

Edited by N7GTX on Tuesday 8th May 17:09

[928]

publication


First used on or after 1 August 1992 and mentioned in the
Annex to this publication requires it meets the emissions cat test.

I thought the requirement to have original emissions equipment comes into force at the end of this month?

Has the MOT station input the correct VIN?

P176 lists the VIN codes required to have cats. If not listed then shoud be fine?

[jmn]

Surely these cars never had a CC in the first place?

[SMB]

Let's just step back a minute, what did it actually fail for? If it was emissions what results did you get on the test?

Or was it for the visible removal of a cat?

[bobfather]

I think you misunderstand what a 'TVR friendly garage' is. Those garages help decatted owners get through the test

[jmn]

My car was never fitted with a CC.

[bobfather]

jmn said:

My car was never fitted with a CC.

So a 'friendly' garage would not have failed you, they would have let you know there was an issue but past it anyway.

[cavebloke]

This is a bit concerning as my September 1992 pre-cat needs its MOT this month. I hope you get it sorted soon - who knows how long this weather will last!

[phillpot]

cavebloke said:

This is a bit concerning as my September 1992 pre-cat needs its MOT this month.

Happy days for me by the look of it .....................

[ThommoHawk]

Unless things have radically changed - it always used to be that 92 on a ‘J’ (or earlier) was exempt but 92 on a ‘K’ (or later) needed them fitted.

My 92 Sapphire 4x4 on a green top engine with cats was still deemed ok once they were removed at numerous locations.

Hope all works out ok for you.

[carsy]

Mines K reg. registered 28/09/92.

It’s never been fitted with cats.

[jd2]

carsy said:

Mines K reg. registered 28/09/92.

It’s never been fitted with cats.

Mine is Dec 92 and never had cats fitted. TVR started fitting them on 1st Jan 93.

[geeman237]

Read the publication link posted by "928" There is specific wording for cars built before 1/8/92 and from 1/8/92 to 1/8/95 (transition period cars). I read it that if you have a factory built pre-cat then it does NOT need to be retro-fitted with a cat, but must pass the standard emission test at idle only, per the specifications in table 1 for the date range in the first column.

The Annex 1 lists all the manufacturers and is for cars built after 1/8/92 that were factory fitted with full emissions equipment, ie cats etc. Annex 1 states the test specs to pass.

The wording at the top of page 3 should clarify it.

Seems like the tester needs to understand the small print. Now, if your car doesn't pass the standard emission test, then I don't know how you would make any adjustments to the fuel and ignition to "clean up" the exhaust gases.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[geeman237]

geeman237 said:

Read the publication link posted by "928" There is specific wording for cars built before 1/8/92 and from 1/8/92 to 1/8/95 (transition period cars). I read it that if you have a factory built pre-cat then it does NOT need to be retro-fitted with a cat, but must pass the standard emission test at idle only, per the specifications in table 1 for the date range in the first column.

The Annex 1 lists all the manufacturers and is for cars built after 1/8/92 that were factory fitted with full emissions equipment, ie cats etc. Annex 1 states the test specs to pass.

The wording at the top of page 3 should clarify it.

Seems like the tester needs to understand the small print. Now, if your car doesn't pass the standard emission test, then I don't know how you would make any adjustments to the fuel and ignition to "clean up" the exhaust gases.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

This should help too, see section 7.3, see page 9 specifically. And referring back to the other document, if your chassis number contains the 4th thru 8th digits as "DGC4P" (which I think is Griffith specific) then is must have the CAT test, otherwise its the older emission levels only per table 1 with CO of <3.5%, and HC 1200ppm.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

I have a pre-cat 4.0 and the relevant VIN digits are DGN9P.

[N7GTX]

This seems to sum it up ^^^^^^^^^

My 1994 Chim was fitted with cats.

Chassis code:

4th - D
5th - C
6th - C
7th - 4
8th - P

Presumably then, the 5th letter denotes Chim (C) or Griff (G). And the 6th (C) means catalysts were fitted?
Or is that too simple?

[jmn]

My car does now have an MOT. Collecting it this afternoon and will update after that.

[davep]

N7GTX said:

This seems to sum it up ^^^^^^^^^

My 1994 Chim was fitted with cats.

Chassis code:

4th - D
5th - C
6th - C
7th - 4
8th - P

Presumably then, the 5th letter denotes Chim (C) or Griff (G). And the 6th (C) means catalysts were fitted?
Or is that too simple?

Check your VIN codes. An early 4 litre or 4.3 litre Pre-cat Griffith should have DGN4P or DGN3P, where GN signify Griffith Non-cat. Therefore these VIN codes do not appear in the Annex. If your VIN has characters 10 and 11 showing as NH to M (build year 1992, months August to December) and 5 and 6 are GC then, as I read it, the Extended Emissions test applies. So it all boils down to whether the VIN has an N or a C?

Edited by davep on Wednesday 9th May 14:10

[jmn]

Firstly many thanks for the sensible replies from the knowledgeable people.
My car's VIN confirms that it was never fitted with a CC.
It initially failed on 7.1.3, (CC missing where fitted as standard),
7.3.D.4, 7.3.D.3 (Emissions).
VOSA are investigating and the TVR CC Archivist may be able to assist.
One thing to bear in mind-under the new rules failing on emissions is a major defect and such a failure means that the vehicle cannot be driven away from the MOT Station.
Thanks also to Colin and Tina at TVRSSW who have been extremely helpful.

[SMB]

jmn said:

One thing to bear in mind-under the new rules failing on emissions is a major defect and such a failure means that the vehicle cannot be driven away from the MOT Station.

Can I ask where you have seen it written that the car cannot be driven away to a place of repair ( as per current Gov.uk guidance) I realise what you say is true for dangerous fails but a bulb failure can be a major fail and I can't see a pile of cars littering every MOT station each day awaiting repair. What about those MOT stations that just test and don't repair?


I'm not 100% clear but I think the new rules are intended to stop ongoing use of such a vehicle if the old MOT is still valid, not prohibit you taking the vehicle away for repair ( unless dangerous of course). that said you would still be liable for an unroadworthy car if stopped, but thats the same as today.

Edited by SMB on Thursday 10th May 11:33