RE: What does twin turbo mean? PH Explains

RE: What does twin turbo mean? PH Explains

Thursday 24th May 2018

What does twin turbo mean? PH Explains

Get the lowdown on twin-turbocharged engines



What is a twin-turbo engine?

Any engine that features a pair of turbochargers, such as the VR38DETT found in the Nissan GT-R, is a 'twin-turbo' engine.

What types of twin turbo set-ups are there?

Using two turbochargers, instead of one, grants several potential benefits - but the term 'twin turbo' doesn't tell you how the turbochargers are configured or how they operate. For example, one twin-turbocharged car could feature a conventional 'parallel' set-up. This is where a pair of identically sized turbochargers operate simultaneously.

Another twin-turbocharged car, on the other hand, could feature sequential turbochargers - a configuration in which only one turbocharger will be operational initially. Similarly, some engines are described as 'biturbo' or 'bi-turbo'; again, this only indicates the presence of two turbochargers and doesn't tell you how the particular system is designed.


How does a twin-turbo work?

When the throttle of a turbocharged engine is opened, the volume of exhaust gas being produced increases and the turbocharger begins to accelerate. A large turbocharger can take a long time to get up to speed, however, which results in poor low-speed performance and a sluggish response to the driver's input.

A smaller turbocharger, alternatively, will have a lighter compressor and turbine assembly. These are more easily accelerated by the exhaust gas, resulting in a quicker response and better delivery. Consequently, manufacturers often opt to use a pair of smaller turbochargers - or a small one in conjunction with a larger one, as is the case in some sequential installations.

It may also prove easier for a manufacturer to package two smaller turbochargers in an engine bay, instead of one larger one. This is a key consideration when it comes to engines with a V configuration, as having a single turbocharger will necessitate an exhaust crossover pipe from one bank to the other in order to feed all of the exhaust gas into the sole unit. Having one turbocharger per bank negates this problem.

Disadvantages of twin-turbos

There are, however, downsides to twin-turbocharged engines. For starters, they are inherently more complicated and more expensive. They can also be more difficult to maintain, due to the increased number of parts and potential failure points - particularly when the systems are older.


Common twin-turbocharged configurations

Parallel: Two turbochargers, which operate continually and work together to deliver pressurised air into the engine's intake manifold.

Parallel-sequential: One turbocharger operates throughout the rev range but the second is only phased in when the engine speed increases and enough exhaust gas is produced to drive it properly.

Series-sequential: One turbocharger provides boost initially and, as engine speed increases, a second unit is brought online. The first turbocharger is then shut down.

Compound: The turbochargers are connected in series, so the outlet of the compressor of the first is fed into the compressor inlet of the second. This allows the pressure of the incoming air to be increased significantly, as it works its way through the turbocharging 'stages', allowing for more power. This is why this technique is often called 'staged' turbocharging.


A brief history of twin-turbocharged production cars

The first production car to feature two turbochargers was the Maserati Biturbo, which was launched in December 1981. Early iterations featured a 2.0-litre V6, both banks of which benefited from an IHI RB-51 turbocharger; the matching turbochargers fed into a single carburettor and helped the all-aluminium engine produce 180hp and 187lb ft.

Maserati opted for this particular parallel configuration as the smaller turbochargers were quicker to respond than a large single turbocharger, better suiting the car's sporting nature. Export versions featured larger 2.5- and 2.8-litre V6s and, as fuel injection was introduced and technology advanced, power quickly rose. Ultimately, the Biturbo's output peaked at some 285hp in 1991.

Twin turbocharging quickly became well regarded, thanks to its ability to offer a good blend of power and response, and it was soon adopted by many - including Porsche, Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, BMW, Audi and Subaru.

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Author
Discussion

PHMatt

Original Poster:

608 posts

148 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
This really doesn't cover half of it.

It rightly says that in a V configuration twins are better as the exhaust system would have to be long and complex to meet in the middle for the turbo. But what about putting the exhaust in the middle of the V?

Or going further and talking about how the two big boys of 90's twin turbo's both used inline 6's with 2 3 branch manifolds. They could have gone for a single or twin but elected for twins, despite cost. as it reduced lag (the word lag isn't mentioned once, no conversation about turbo's can fail to include lag or spool!)

I would also have liked to have seen twin entry turbo's covered as this seems to bemuse people who are otherwise knowlegeable about cars. In my days as an MR2 Turbo owner I had people argue with me that my car was a twin turbo and had two turbo's. They couldn't understand that twin entry and simply twin are two totally different things.


popeyewhite

19,876 posts

120 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
PHMatt said:
This really doesn't cover half of it.
More than enough for me. I switched off at "When the throttle...." hehe

PoopahScoopah

249 posts

125 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
PHMatt said:
I would also have liked to have seen twin entry turbo's covered as this seems to bemuse people who are otherwise knowlegeable about cars. In my days as an MR2 Turbo owner I had people argue with me that my car was a twin turbo and had two turbo's. They couldn't understand that twin entry and simply twin are two totally different things.
Funny you've mentioned that as I was just thinking about the Celica GT-Four as I read it. I knew a guy years ago who had one, and despite the fact that he was (supposedly) quite handy with the spanners, doing some interesting engine swaps and what not, he referred to it as being twin turbo'd. Now at the time I knew no better, as I didn't know much about Celicas, but I remember thinking it odd that a I4 engine would be twin turbo'd. After that I found out it was ste and a common misconception and it's always annoyed me since then when I hear people say they are twin turbo'd.

CS Garth

2,860 posts

105 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
Reminds me of a Geordie friend of mine who had a 'twin cam' engine. When asked what twin cam meant he said "I divvn't kna like but it's got 2 of 'em"

Loyly

17,996 posts

159 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
Funny to see the old MR2 Turbo being mentioned. When I had one, I had people ask about the twin turbo setup. I think it even said 'twin entry turbo' on the bodywork, somewhere, and still they asked.

Terminator X

15,082 posts

204 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
Anyone know how the B9 RS4 is setup? Twin turbo afaik ...

TX.

ruggedscotty

5,626 posts

209 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
black art turbos but they have come a long way. these days you can be pushed to work out if an engine is turbo'd or not its that well integrated into the management system.

Gameface

16,565 posts

77 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
Loyly said:
Funny to see the old MR2 Turbo being mentioned. When I had one, I had people ask about the twin turbo setup. I think it even said 'twin entry turbo' on the bodywork, somewhere, and still they asked.
I was about to relate a story of my friend with GT4 Celica who swore his twin entry turbo was twin turbocharged.

To clarify his grasp of reality, he thought it was faster than my Ferrari 355 too...

Gary C

12,441 posts

179 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
Compound turbo does not necessarily mean series turbo charges.

It used to mean a turbine coupled directly to the output shaft.

GC8

19,910 posts

190 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
Or a geared crank drive intended to prevent the turbo from ever spinning below a preset speed.

Onehp

1,617 posts

283 months

Saturday 26th May 2018
quotequote all
PHMatt said:
They couldn't understand that twin entry and simply twin are two totally different things.
Yes and, no. Totally different physical layout. But in a way they are similar as they use the same principle to reduce lag. The smaller inertia of two turbos isn't even half the story, indeed. The main point is that twin entry, requiring two seperate exhaust collectors, and twin turbo, where each turbo has it's own exhaust collector, both aim to seperate the exhaust pulses from each other by reducing the number of cylinders per collector (i.e. max three per collector on 4 stroke). In a single entry, single collector 4 or more cylinder engine, the exhaust pulses overlap, causing interference and pressure pulses from one cylinder pushing back the next pulse from the cylinder that 'exhales' next, causing all kinds of inefficiencies and, most markedly here, not helping the turbo spool up. Similar principle applies to a twin scroll turbo, there the exhaust gasses from two seperate collector remain somewhat seperate onto a single turbine using two scrolls. Scrolls being the passageways that lead the exhaust gasses on the turbine wheel, one scroll complementing the other in their most efficient operating conditions, achieving similar effect as a small and large turbocharger on the turbine side, as the scrolls typically work on different diameter parts of the single turbine.

Actually the now very common ea888 gen3 VW engine also uses twin entry, together with a water cooled twin exhaust manifolds inside the engine block and special turbine design with oblique gas entry making it respond well to a wider range of flow rates. So dispite not being twin scroll, it has excellent response. Not marketed as such, happen to know this as it's my current platform, there are probably more twin entry engines apart from the twin scrolls...

Hot V turbocharging where the (twin) turbos sit inside the V, allow for a more compact engine and also allow for even more pulse seperation with double twin entry/twin scroll - cross - manifolds that can cover both cylinder banks. Main disadvantage being that it can easily become too hot in that same space. Afaik, no expert myself either.

If this sounded complicated (just the beginning), we still have the staged tripple amd quadriple turbo set-ups on some recent cars.... BMW has also introduced twin staged turbocharging on the less powerful 20d and 18d diesels for efficiency, so now even a base engine (except the 16d?) already has two turbochargers... Of which one is variable vane, another topic there...

Edited by Onehp on Saturday 26th May 02:03