RE: PH Competes: Motorsport at the Palace
Tuesday 21st May 2019
PH Competes: Motorsport at the Palace
Proper competition, on a historic track, in actual London town? Sounds like a job for EnduroKa!
Many will be aware of the history of Crystal Palace, despite the track having now been moribund since 1972. Having played host to races on two wheels and four, featuring drivers and riders like James Hunt, Sitrling Moss, Jochen Rindt and John Surtees, the Palace's reputation was assured during the glory years of the 50s and 60s.
Gerry Marshall won the last race held at Crystal Palace, held on September 23rd 1972, driving a Lister-Jaguar - quite an appropriate way to bow out. It wasn't until 1997 that sprint racing returned, only to be stopped again in 2001 thanks to millennium redevelopment plans for the park. Undeterred, the Sevenoaks and District Motor Club continued their campaigning, and the Motorsport at the Palace sprint weekend has run successfully every year since its reintroduction in 2010.
And now PH is involved! Taking place this Bank Holiday on Sunday and Monday, the MATP weekend comprises a car show and bike display as well as the competitive element. It's a proper event, too, with dozens of cars across a variety of classes. The entry list is full of cool stuff: E-Type Jaguars, Lotus Cortinas, Fraser Nashes, Morgans, Caterhams, Cobras... and a Ford Ka. Uh oh.
The mighty little Ford is entered into Class 7 (2000-date) for Road Going Series Production Cars. There's also a category for Road Going Specialist Production Cars, Sports Libre Cars, and then racers up to 1,600cc. At the time of writing the Ka is up against cars including a Clio V6, an Impreza, three Elises, a JCW Mini and even a Mitsubishi Airtek. The Ka is not returning with a podium again in other words - but it still promises to be a lot of fun.
You'll find it and me at Crystal Palace on both days, so do come and say hello if you're around. And if you're not yet but would like to be - and who wouldn't? - then tickets are available here.
Discussion
MagicalTrevor said:
Shame you’ve entered the wrong class.
With no rear seats and stereo removal, you’re actually in Class C17, Modified Series Production.
Take your HANS device with you as you’ll need it for that class.
It’s a superb venue and it’s a shame I couldn’t enter this year.
I’m guessing they will be able to amend his class prior to the event? With no rear seats and stereo removal, you’re actually in Class C17, Modified Series Production.
Take your HANS device with you as you’ll need it for that class.
It’s a superb venue and it’s a shame I couldn’t enter this year.
Sadly, Trevor is right. Cars entered in speed events are split into a number of categories and the ones applicable to cars that rolled off a production line for road use are Standard Production, Roadgoing Series Production, Modified Series Production and Sports Libre. The more modifications you do, the higher up the tree you go and the more safety equipment you need. I won't explain what standard means - if you've made modifications you're not eligible.
Roadgoing is not, as you might expect, anything with a valid MOT. It's designed for cars that you can daily, so there's restrictions on lots of things, including whether all the equipment your car came with off the production line is still there. No rear seats? No deal! On the plus side, you don't need any safety gear at all and you can even run inertia reel belts.
Modified is designed for cars that were once road cars, but are now too compromised to arrive on the road. They may still do so, but you don't need an MOT and the rules are pretty open as long as you don't start cutting the car up too much or lob a V8 in the back. Think touring cars with plastic windows, trick suspension, slick tyres, etc. You'll need a cage (just the rear if you're <2000cc), harnesses, seats and a Hans device if you find yourself here.
Sports Libre is the catch-all "anything goes" category. If you've put a V8 on the back seats or something far more trivial like a C20XE in your Nova, you'll find yourself here. The down side is that you'll need a full cage and you'll be parked next to a 5 litre, 500kg Pilbeam sports racer this weekend.
As you can probably tell, the categories are flawed as there's nothing to stop me turning up in a 600bhp Impreza with no safety gear, but because you've taken your stereo out, you need a cage, harnesses, seats and a Hans device. I mentioned this to David Richards on Friday, but he was blissfully unaware of the problem as I'm not sure speed events fit into his grass-roots thinking. We'll see where it goes in the future, but the FIA's promised Performance Factor has not delivered for our needs, so Motorsport UK or a number of clubs need to step up to the plate.
My personal view is that the performance of your car will be correct for Roadgoing and, despite the non-compliance, I'd like to see you there. I think I'll have the measure of you in my SUV (I'm the one who's entered my Airtrek daily driver) but that's not the point. If you want some guidance on driving the track this weekend, do ask - I've got 7 class winner trophies from that track on the shelf behind me. It's a tricky circuit to learn and I would strongly recommend walking the track the night before or in the morning.
The most important thing you can take away from this is that when entering a motorsport event, the most important thing to do is to read the rules. For reference, about 8% of all people entering the Dick Mayo Sprint at Castle Combe in July have entered a class that does not exist. That means that 8% of people entering definitely did not read the Supplementary Regulations. Of the remaining 92%, I suspect a vast percentage were able to guess correctly. If you don't know the rules, then you will be caught off-guard when someone hauls you up on it.
Roadgoing is not, as you might expect, anything with a valid MOT. It's designed for cars that you can daily, so there's restrictions on lots of things, including whether all the equipment your car came with off the production line is still there. No rear seats? No deal! On the plus side, you don't need any safety gear at all and you can even run inertia reel belts.
Modified is designed for cars that were once road cars, but are now too compromised to arrive on the road. They may still do so, but you don't need an MOT and the rules are pretty open as long as you don't start cutting the car up too much or lob a V8 in the back. Think touring cars with plastic windows, trick suspension, slick tyres, etc. You'll need a cage (just the rear if you're <2000cc), harnesses, seats and a Hans device if you find yourself here.
Sports Libre is the catch-all "anything goes" category. If you've put a V8 on the back seats or something far more trivial like a C20XE in your Nova, you'll find yourself here. The down side is that you'll need a full cage and you'll be parked next to a 5 litre, 500kg Pilbeam sports racer this weekend.
As you can probably tell, the categories are flawed as there's nothing to stop me turning up in a 600bhp Impreza with no safety gear, but because you've taken your stereo out, you need a cage, harnesses, seats and a Hans device. I mentioned this to David Richards on Friday, but he was blissfully unaware of the problem as I'm not sure speed events fit into his grass-roots thinking. We'll see where it goes in the future, but the FIA's promised Performance Factor has not delivered for our needs, so Motorsport UK or a number of clubs need to step up to the plate.
My personal view is that the performance of your car will be correct for Roadgoing and, despite the non-compliance, I'd like to see you there. I think I'll have the measure of you in my SUV (I'm the one who's entered my Airtrek daily driver) but that's not the point. If you want some guidance on driving the track this weekend, do ask - I've got 7 class winner trophies from that track on the shelf behind me. It's a tricky circuit to learn and I would strongly recommend walking the track the night before or in the morning.
The most important thing you can take away from this is that when entering a motorsport event, the most important thing to do is to read the rules. For reference, about 8% of all people entering the Dick Mayo Sprint at Castle Combe in July have entered a class that does not exist. That means that 8% of people entering definitely did not read the Supplementary Regulations. Of the remaining 92%, I suspect a vast percentage were able to guess correctly. If you don't know the rules, then you will be caught off-guard when someone hauls you up on it.
ecsrobin said:
MagicalTrevor said:
Shame you’ve entered the wrong class.
With no rear seats and stereo removal, you’re actually in Class C17, Modified Series Production.
Take your HANS device with you as you’ll need it for that class.
It’s a superb venue and it’s a shame I couldn’t enter this year.
I’m guessing they will be able to amend his class prior to the event? With no rear seats and stereo removal, you’re actually in Class C17, Modified Series Production.
Take your HANS device with you as you’ll need it for that class.
It’s a superb venue and it’s a shame I couldn’t enter this year.
I've been to spectate several times. It is a nice event. Partly because there's commentary and all the wildly different cars are described knowledgeably. And it is very relaxed in the paddock which is grass with shade from Rhododendrons etc. Some of my neighbours from Rochester are competing in Mark 1 Escorts and a Series 2 Lotus Seven. Hopefully they have read and understood and complied with the regulations and are in the right classes. All they want to do is have a few shots up the "hill". I can't make it this weekend sadly. I hope everyone has a brilliant time.
Sad to hear how the class system works, it's something I wanted to have a go at next year in my modified 944, but with only a half cage it doesn't sound like I'll be able to (although I might be able to get a bolt in extension kit fitted, but it's expensive for just this one event). Do harnesses and seats have to be within the date codes too? (please excuse my laziness for not having studied the regs yet).
I'll be along to spectate this Sunday, it's such a great event, can't wait.
I'll be along to spectate this Sunday, it's such a great event, can't wait.
It's often easier to put interior back in again but if you're stripped to the metal then you'll generally find yourself in the same situation. I suppose it's a safety thing and with motorsport, in this country, having a really good record relative to some other sports, it's great that we're operating in a sport with decent level of safety.
The difficulty is how to make the barrier to entry lower to encourage more people like yourself moving from, what I assume is, a stripped out track day car + bike helmet to dipping a toe into competition.
Crystal Palace is a really great venue for competitors and spectators. It's brilliant to see everyone as you whizz past. For spectators you're really close to the action and get to see some really fast cars such a the one driven by the current leader in the British Sprint Championship.
The difficulty is how to make the barrier to entry lower to encourage more people like yourself moving from, what I assume is, a stripped out track day car + bike helmet to dipping a toe into competition.
Crystal Palace is a really great venue for competitors and spectators. It's brilliant to see everyone as you whizz past. For spectators you're really close to the action and get to see some really fast cars such a the one driven by the current leader in the British Sprint Championship.
MagicalTrevor said:
It's often easier to put interior back in again but if you're stripped to the metal then you'll generally find yourself in the same situation. I suppose it's a safety thing and with motorsport, in this country, having a really good record relative to some other sports, it's great that we're operating in a sport with decent level of safety.
The difficulty is how to make the barrier to entry lower to encourage more people like yourself moving from, what I assume is, a stripped out track day car + bike helmet to dipping a toe into competition.
Crystal Palace is a really great venue for competitors and spectators. It's brilliant to see everyone as you whizz past. For spectators you're really close to the action and get to see some really fast cars such a the one driven by the current leader in the British Sprint Championship.
Thanks. It's completely stripped with welded in half cage. I'll have a think about it over the next few months as I presume the entry list will fill up quite quickly. I suppose i could always do it in my ratty 525i touring, but that wouldn't be much fun!The difficulty is how to make the barrier to entry lower to encourage more people like yourself moving from, what I assume is, a stripped out track day car + bike helmet to dipping a toe into competition.
Crystal Palace is a really great venue for competitors and spectators. It's brilliant to see everyone as you whizz past. For spectators you're really close to the action and get to see some really fast cars such a the one driven by the current leader in the British Sprint Championship.
I spent a very enjoyable morning there today whilst the weather was still good (I presume it rained in the afternoon?).
I've uploaded some random pics here
I've uploaded some random pics here
Went along on the Monday. Good event, it is however a pity that the view of the track is a bit restricted up at final section.
Matt - sorry if I delayed your pre-run, sandwich eating.
Only a phone picture I am afraid.
Now, how to convince the Mrs to run her RX-7 next year... maybe I should buy her a helmet for Xmas.
Matt - sorry if I delayed your pre-run, sandwich eating.
Only a phone picture I am afraid.
Now, how to convince the Mrs to run her RX-7 next year... maybe I should buy her a helmet for Xmas.
Edited by No ideas for a name on Tuesday 28th May 15:12
Peter Empson said:
I spent a very enjoyable morning there today whilst the weather was still good (I presume it rained in the afternoon?).
I've uploaded some random pics here
That is quite funny, you seem to have photographed the cars either side of mine lol. My 2003 Zeus is obviously not old enough for you I've uploaded some random pics here
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