S2 Elise 111S electrical issues - rain?
Discussion
I took my 2003 111S down to the Alps for my summer holiday, and it was all going well until the day after I got caught in a biblical rainstorm.
The day after the rain I spent the day riding ferries and exploring lake Como, and in the evening I got back to the car, drove it for 20 minutes without issue to a car ferry terminal. It then sat (engine off) for 20 mins waiting for the ferry, and when it arrived I restarted the engine and it really struggled to idle (intermittently showing MIL/check engine light) and eventually she cut out on the ferry so I rolled to positon. When it came to getting off we had to push her as there was no starting her.
The far end of the ferry I tried to work out what was wrong (normally the problem is something has rattled loose!). She was turning over fine, but not firing at all. Initially I believe the fuel pump wasn't running and the MIL light was on. I went to get some fuel to make sure it wasn't just a faulty fuel gauge and empty tank, after 15 mins I tried it again and this time as well as turning over without firing the speedo went off the scale >140mph, and then the radiator fan went on full, and the fuel pump started rattling continuously, the fuel pump and fan then continued even after removing the ignition key.
Having no electrical tools, I had the AA tow her to a local garage (cue pretty breakdown truck photo)
The AA have since recovered her to the UK as the Italian mechanic was stumped.
It is 4 weeks later: not starting, and rad fan & fuel pump coming on and staying on even with keys removed are still symptoms.
It has given a crank sensor fault OBD code. I bought the new sensor. I have struggled to fit it though as the old one (which is barely accessible anyway) is seized on and I'm worried I'll shear off the screw. Given the other electrical faults, I suspect that the problem may be elsewhere anyway (e.g. water in connector, ECU or loom insulation break).
I have previously had water in the cam sensor due to the early s2 111S engine cover and louvre combo and washing the car with a hose. That did dry out the next day though, where this is persistent. The car just turns off sequential fuelling and VVT with cam sensor failure, but obvs. cant run anything without crank sensor as this drives ignition timing.
If this isn't rain related, it could also be significant that this was during the European heat wave, so the car was in the sun in 42°C ambient a few days before, probably the hottest its ever been.
Has anyone:
a) Seen these symptoms before or know what is going on?
b) Know where water can be a problem on K series Elises?
c) Got any advise to get the crank sensor off without shearing the screw (including is there something simple to remove for better access?
d) Got anyone they'd recommend in the Cambridgeshire area for electrical diagnostics?
The day after the rain I spent the day riding ferries and exploring lake Como, and in the evening I got back to the car, drove it for 20 minutes without issue to a car ferry terminal. It then sat (engine off) for 20 mins waiting for the ferry, and when it arrived I restarted the engine and it really struggled to idle (intermittently showing MIL/check engine light) and eventually she cut out on the ferry so I rolled to positon. When it came to getting off we had to push her as there was no starting her.
The far end of the ferry I tried to work out what was wrong (normally the problem is something has rattled loose!). She was turning over fine, but not firing at all. Initially I believe the fuel pump wasn't running and the MIL light was on. I went to get some fuel to make sure it wasn't just a faulty fuel gauge and empty tank, after 15 mins I tried it again and this time as well as turning over without firing the speedo went off the scale >140mph, and then the radiator fan went on full, and the fuel pump started rattling continuously, the fuel pump and fan then continued even after removing the ignition key.
Having no electrical tools, I had the AA tow her to a local garage (cue pretty breakdown truck photo)
The AA have since recovered her to the UK as the Italian mechanic was stumped.
It is 4 weeks later: not starting, and rad fan & fuel pump coming on and staying on even with keys removed are still symptoms.
It has given a crank sensor fault OBD code. I bought the new sensor. I have struggled to fit it though as the old one (which is barely accessible anyway) is seized on and I'm worried I'll shear off the screw. Given the other electrical faults, I suspect that the problem may be elsewhere anyway (e.g. water in connector, ECU or loom insulation break).
I have previously had water in the cam sensor due to the early s2 111S engine cover and louvre combo and washing the car with a hose. That did dry out the next day though, where this is persistent. The car just turns off sequential fuelling and VVT with cam sensor failure, but obvs. cant run anything without crank sensor as this drives ignition timing.
If this isn't rain related, it could also be significant that this was during the European heat wave, so the car was in the sun in 42°C ambient a few days before, probably the hottest its ever been.
Has anyone:
a) Seen these symptoms before or know what is going on?
b) Know where water can be a problem on K series Elises?
c) Got any advise to get the crank sensor off without shearing the screw (including is there something simple to remove for better access?
d) Got anyone they'd recommend in the Cambridgeshire area for electrical diagnostics?
Not exactly the same symptoms - but my S2 K series gave me some starting issues many years ago. It wouldn’t .
It turned out to be the multifunction relay unit that slowly over time had been taking in water and trapping it. When it was prized open it was a miracle the car had run at all up to that point. The circuit board and tracks was badly corroded.
That unit runs just about everything important for the engine, fuel pump etc.
From what you describe it sounds like a chronic short circuit somewhere, and that unit (where it was originally placed on mine) is prone to getting wet.
Might be a good place to start.
Left hand side of the engine bay from the back, towards the rear of the engine, not bulkhead side.
It turned out to be the multifunction relay unit that slowly over time had been taking in water and trapping it. When it was prized open it was a miracle the car had run at all up to that point. The circuit board and tracks was badly corroded.
That unit runs just about everything important for the engine, fuel pump etc.
From what you describe it sounds like a chronic short circuit somewhere, and that unit (where it was originally placed on mine) is prone to getting wet.
Might be a good place to start.
Left hand side of the engine bay from the back, towards the rear of the engine, not bulkhead side.
So the MFRU had rattled loose and was only held in position by its cables, but it appears dry and in tact. I wonder if its rattling has shorted a cable somewhere. Does anyone know how the physical connectors/relays map to the circuit diagram?
Also of note: the fuse for the fuel pump has melted (blown and self destructed), possibly because the Italian garage forgot to disconnect the battery. God knows what else running the capacity of the battery through the fuel pump (dead headed), idle air control valve (presumably into its endstop?) and fan (at least this is ok) will have done.
Also of note: the fuse for the fuel pump has melted (blown and self destructed), possibly because the Italian garage forgot to disconnect the battery. God knows what else running the capacity of the battery through the fuel pump (dead headed), idle air control valve (presumably into its endstop?) and fan (at least this is ok) will have done.
It turns out my Elise has been filling its ECU with water.
Does anyone either know anywhere that can repair (is that possible?)
The conformal coating has mostly protected it except the big chip just above the centreline on the left (below the tidemark) in the photo.
Or does anyone who knows the whereabouts of an S2 111S ECU (A117M0109F, different from non 111S) for sale (new or used)?
Cheers,
Simon
I had MIL light on my 111s (S1) and a spluttering under load. It was the coil packs. VVC engines have different ignition system. I had them replaced along with the plugs and leads. I also had the misfire detection kit removed too (IIRC this is only on S1 111s). If you end up replacing the coil packs, order from Elise Parts, I've had to change mine again from OEM replacements. The EP ones are considerably better!
Hello
Im having similar problems with my Elise S2 - VVC engine
Original problem was the VVC Camshaft cracked, this was replaced by a local garage (MG Dealer) and the car now runs (but is no where near driveable), howvever i'm also seeing flashing dash board lights, eratic behaviour
I have been able to find 2nd hand ECU's, as this seems to be the most common problem, however neither solve the problem. Ive also check all the earth posts and cleaned / remade the connections, with no success
Im therefore stummped, and would appreciate an comments and possibel solutions made by other owners
Thank you
Stephen
Im having similar problems with my Elise S2 - VVC engine
Original problem was the VVC Camshaft cracked, this was replaced by a local garage (MG Dealer) and the car now runs (but is no where near driveable), howvever i'm also seeing flashing dash board lights, eratic behaviour
I have been able to find 2nd hand ECU's, as this seems to be the most common problem, however neither solve the problem. Ive also check all the earth posts and cleaned / remade the connections, with no success
Im therefore stummped, and would appreciate an comments and possibel solutions made by other owners
Thank you
Stephen
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