Not being furloughed, but not being paid

[PopsandBangs]

My partners Father is a self employed Taxi Driver. Obviously he has zero work at the moment, and seemingly zero support. He's also in the high risk group due to very poor health, so is sat at home not earning.

Her mother in her 60s works 3 contracted days a week and 2 days overtime every week (I've just found out they've never extended her contracted hours to the full week, I'm sure to protect themselves....) in a small shop, attached to a Chemist, with a separate shop floor linked by an archway inside. I think there are about 5 or 6 of them that work in this stationary/general crap shop, and a few who work in the conjoined pharmacy.

The company who owns the setup refusing to furlough those in the next door shop department, saying that they will allow them to work their contracted hours in the chemist area, or not at all without pay - most of the employees are old so they expect them to not take them up on this offer and save the wages. The mother does not want to work in the Chemist area either (not her usual place of work, but it's counts as the same shop in the eyes of the company) and expose herself to anything, due to her husbands vulnerability and also her own - she's epileptic (not sure if that's a risk.)

So they're both at home, not being paid a penny.

What on earth can they do here?

[Terminator X]

The self employed will get 80% of an average of their profit from last 3 years accounts afaik.

TX.

[tex200]

He’s been covered by the first reply and she’s got a choice of working (and get paid) or decline to work (and not get paid).

It really is that straightforward. Her employer has decided not to furlough so they, quite reasonably, expect them to turn up if they also want to be paid.

Or she could call in sick.

[lyonspride]

Terminator X said:

The self employed will get 80% of an average of their profit from last 3 years accounts afaik.

TX.

Only if they were reporting all their earnings to HMRC, a lot of taxi drivers around here are having to work through all this and take jobs delivering takeaways on the side, because they wouldn't be able to live on 80% of the next to f**k all they claim to have been earning.

[Drumroll]

lyonspride said:

Only if they were reporting all their earnings to HMRC, a lot of taxi drivers around here are having to work through all this and take jobs delivering takeaways on the side, because they wouldn't be able to live on 80% of the next to f**k all they claim to have been earning.

Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

Insensitive maybe, but some of us get a bit miffed at people who don't pay their dues to the Government.

[itsnotarace]

lyonspride said:

Only if they were reporting all their earnings to HMRC, a lot of taxi drivers around here are having to work through all this and take jobs delivering takeaways on the side, because they wouldn't be able to live on 80% of the next to f**k all they claim to have been earning.

Little sympathy from me either, should have put some of those undisclosed earnings to one side for rainy days such as these? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but foresight is better

And again before am accused of being insensitive, I'm a freelance IT contractor between contracts, market has basically come to a grinding halt and I don't qualify for anything either. However I'm quite good at saving, so have enough to see me through a few months of sitting on the sidelines while still being able to pay my mortgage and bills

[Terminator X]

The rage within PH for the self employed and/or company directors is palpable. I'm surprised that you haven't all started up your own companies given it seems so "easy"

TX.

[Doofus]

Terminator X said:

The rage within PH for the self employed and/or company directors is palpable. I'm surprised that you haven't all started up your own companies given it seems so "easy"

TX.

It's not rage against the self-employed and/or company directors; it's antipathy when they complain that they can't get government assistance even though they have historically avoided paying tax by under-declaring their income, or paying themselves with dividends.

I'm a company director, and I have taken advantage of dividends in the past, which has reduced my tax bill. I am now sucking it up and not going cap-in-hand to the treasury to ask if they can give me back some of the money I deliberately didn't give them previously.

[Drumroll]

Doofus said:

Terminator X said:

The rage within PH for the self employed and/or company directors is palpable. I'm surprised that you haven't all started up your own companies given it seems so "easy"

TX.

It's not rage against the self-employed and/or company directors; it's antipathy when they complain that they can't get government assistance even though they have historically avoided paying tax by under-declaring their income, or paying themselves with dividends.

I'm a company director, and I have taken advantage of dividends in the past, which has reduced my tax bill. I am now sucking it up and not going cap-in-hand to the treasury to ask if they can give me back some of the money I deliberately didn't give them previously.

Agreed, no rage. Nothing against any company director (powerfully built, or otherwise) I feel the same about anyone who doesn't follow the rules and then moans, when they get found out (in this instance won't get much (if any) payout)

[itsnotarace]

Doofus said:

It's not rage against the self-employed and/or company directors; it's antipathy when they complain that they can't get government assistance even though they have historically avoided paying tax by under-declaring their income, or paying themselves with dividends.

Bingo

Terminator X said:

The rage within PH for the self employed and/or company directors is palpable. I'm surprised that you haven't all started up your own companies given it seems so "easy"

TX.

I don't have much sympathy with the multi billionaire BVI tax haven company registration island-owning Richard Branson who is asking the British taxpayer to pay his staff wages and keep his company afloat either

[Agammemnon]

Doofus said:

Terminator X said:

The rage within PH for the self employed and/or company directors is palpable. I'm surprised that you haven't all started up your own companies given it seems so "easy"

TX.

It's not rage against the self-employed and/or company directors; it's antipathy when they complain that they can't get government assistance even though they have historically avoided paying tax by under-declaring their income, or paying themselves with dividends.

They played games. They lost.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

lyonspride said:

Terminator X said:

The self employed will get 80% of an average of their profit from last 3 years accounts afaik.

TX.

Only if they were reporting all their earnings to HMRC, a lot of taxi drivers around here are having to work through all this and take jobs delivering takeaways on the side, because they wouldn't be able to live on 80% of the next to f**k all they claim to have been earning.

Maybe start a Just Giving page for tax evaders.

[jonah35]

They’re over pension age so they could flexibly access some of their pensions

[Geffg]

Know a few taxi drivers myself who on paper earn hardly anything when in reality earn more than myself. As said now they’ll start to complain that their getting nothing but they’ve had a lot more over the years they’ve not declared everything. Most self employed people I know officially don’t earn much and just get by! They do quite well for just about scraping by! Like with Virgin not paying taxes due to where the business is registered etc so not paying taxes to the government but then expecting money from tax payers! That’s proper having your cake and eating it. Makes a nice change to actually get some repayment for paying my taxes for all these years instead of being given nothing like usual when needed.

[coldel]

Sorry for the daft question - my wife contracts, she has worked short term contracts over the last few years working at a number of large organisations (always paid her tax and declared everything as she gets the roles through an agency!). Obviously she cannot get work now, she had a potential contract cancelled last month because of obvious reasons. Is the 'selfemployed' grant something she would qualify for? Apologies for a thread hijack!

[HustleRussell]

Drumroll said:

Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

This.

[itsnotarace]

coldel said:

Sorry for the daft question - my wife contracts, she has worked short term contracts over the last few years working at a number of large organisations (always paid her tax and declared everything as she gets the roles through an agency!). Obviously she cannot get work now, she had a potential contract cancelled last month because of obvious reasons. Is the 'selfemployed' grant something she would qualify for? Apologies for a thread hijack!

She can claim the self employed grant if she fills in her own tax return every year and has done for the last 3 years, she'll be able to claim 80% of her declared profits up to a maximum of £2500 a month if i recall. If she's paid tax at source (ie given a payslip every month showing tax deducted from a gross amount and then the net amount to be paid to her), then no unfortunately she won't qualify.

If she was employed in a contract on the 19th of March she could ask her agency to put her on furlough, so in effect the agency would be putting her on furlough and then claiming back the wages from the government

If neither of these apply she should look to universal credit and council tax support if required. Check your local council authority website for more details

Edited by itsnotarace on Friday 24th April 10:48

Edited by itsnotarace on Friday 24th April 10:52

[coldel]

itsnotarace said:

She can claim the self employed grant if she fills in her own tax return every year and has done for the last 3 years, she'll be able to claim 80% of her declared profits up to a maximum of £2500 a month if i recall. If she's paid tax at source (ie given a payslip every month showing tax deducted from a gross amount and then the net amount to be paid to her), then no unfortunately she won't qualify.

If she was employed in a contract on the 19th of March she could ask her agency to put her on furlough, so in effect the agency would be putting her on furlough and then claiming back the wages from the government

If neither of these apply she should look to universal credit and council tax support if required. Check your local council authority website for more details

Edited by itsnotarace on Friday 24th April 10:48

Edited by itsnotarace on Friday 24th April 10:52

Thanks, she works about 80% of the year on contracts (learning development roles) for different companies covering for a few months here and there. She gets paid by the recruitment agency who finds the roles, and pays tax through that. As the agency has no roles and furlouging their staff, she is now unemployed, she has tried approach companies still operating under lockdown asking for work but nothing has come up. I earn a salary so she cannot get Universal Credit. So she is spending our savings/my salary at the moment I guess she is just one of those that falls through the cracks and has to suck it up.