Monday 18th May 2020

Mazda MX-5 (NC) Kuro BBR Supercharged | Spotted

Looks like any other MX-5; goes rather differently...

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Can it really be 15 years since the Mk3 Mazda MX-5 was launched? Well yes, it can, proving that time really does fly when horse and rider are one. Or having fun - one or the other, certainly. In fact, it's been so long since the launch that possibly it has been forgotten that the first Mk3s weren't received all that well. The usual gripes were mentioned about comfier this and more accommodating that, but the NC was also criticised for just being, well, not all that to drive. One review mentioned "an ultra-darty front confusing a squidgy rear", another the "glutinous resistance" of the hydraulic steering - it wasn't the auspicious start many were hoping for.

A 2009 facelift addressed many of the MX-5's problems, though, and by the end of its life the Mk3 was praised and welcomed like one of the family again. Moreover, by that time the really special versions had come along, making the most of an improved platform: there was the Jota GT special notable for fitting individual throttle bodies to an MX-5 from the showroom, and the GT270 kit from BBR showing once again what forced induction could do for Mazda's roadster.

There was another route to big power in an NC MX-5, however: supercharging. It's hard to know without direct experience, though it's easy to imagine a supercharger suiting the MX-5 experience even better than a turbo, with any lag eliminated and an even greater sense of immediacy to the additional power.

BBR launched an NC supercharger kit in 2012, boosting power and torque on a 2.0-litre car to 260hp and 208lb ft respectively - 100hp and 69lb ft up on standard. With 'charger, Cosworth designed inlet manifold, new injectors and an intercooler fitted, the BBR work was fairly substantial, making the £6k+VAT a big investment for a buyer who'd just bought a MX-5 at £20,000 or so.

Thank goodness that a few people did. This 2012 MX-5 Kuro has been fitted with the supercharger kit, the first owner taking the plunge when the car was three years old and the current owner having kept it for the past two. In that time, it has covered just 40,000 miles, with the service history to back that up and an MOT until December. For £10,000, you're not going to go much faster.

Speaking of which, any prospective buyer might want to budget a little for some extra chassis upgrades; as far as can be told here, the Kuro is still standard outside of the engine bay. And while it came as standard with a limited-slip diff and Bilstein suspension, some money spent on kit like lowering springs would further enhance the experience. The stock look is a rare one for modified MX-5s, as is basing the project on an RC hardtop, so it would be silly to mess too much - but there is definitely room for improvement (mainly in that wheelarch gap).

Otherwise this MX-5 is exactly how you might hope it to be, with recent plugs, pads and fluids, spotless pearlescent white paint and what looks like a blemish-free interior. That said, nobody would be blamed for switching out those seats for some that are a) more supportive and b) more complementary of the colour scheme. The slightly grey-tinged white is never going to look all that clever with the paint.

Beyond that subjective point, the news is nearly entirely positive for the BBR'd car: modern and refined enough to be regularly used, potent enough to put a smile on your face and affordable enough not to be too precious about. The fact that this supercharged car is for sale at exactly the same money (to the pound!) as a standard NC with just 8,000 fewer miles shows what value there is on offer here.

Indeed, while the latest MX-5 improved the recipe yet again, the third-generation car is finally enjoying some recognition as the first two iterations rust away or become too valuable to use. In time it seems likely that a similar fate might afflict the Mk3, especially given its look so faithfully evokes the original - so move now and enjoy. 15 years will become 20 before you know it...

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SPECIFICATION - MAZDA MX-5 NC
Engine: 1,999cc, four-cyl supercharged
Transmission: 6-speed manual, rear-wheel drive
Power (hp): 160@7,000rpm (standard car)
Torque (lb ft): 139@5,000rpm (standard car)
MPG: 36.2
CO2: 181g/km
First registered: 2012
Recorded mileage: 40,000
Price new: c. £22k
Yours for: £10,495

See the original advert here

[aarondbs]

Performance in offer should be very tempting this I must say. I like the look of it too but I have a slight feeling that a soft top is preferable... may just be me that..

I wonder what sort of performance numbers this would give. I’m enjoying my wife’s 140i currently and I imagine this would give similar in a more pleasing package..

[anonymous-user]

That seems very good value to me, it's only ~£2k more than a standard car in the same sort of condition.

I think that this would very similar in a straight line to a 140i with a decent driver who can change gears properly - it'll only weigh 1100KG or so so I'd expect 230 - 235bhp/ton compared to 215 odd for the BMW. Supercharged engines usually torque monsters too, so it should feel fantastic.

ETA - two of these Kuro editions on eBay at £10k with 54k on the clock and £7.5k with 56k on the clock. I'd call this one a bargain.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 18th May 12:00

[Frimley111R]

Think i'd be looking at some seats to hold you in place first but otherwise a nice car.

[griffdude]

FI MX5s are a bit of a hobby of mine & this is a complete bargain for someone. Especially the later MK3s like this as they have stronger engine internals.
According to the gossip, Mazda borrowed heavily from Mercedes for the folding hard top...

[anonymous-user]

"definitely room for improvement (mainly in that wheelarch gap)."

Yes, if you intend mainly to track it.

But if a daily driver, no, no and no.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/engineering-expla...

https://www.carscoops.com/2020/01/stanced-vw-golf-...

https://www.driverknowledgetests.com/resources/sho...

https://drivetribe.com/p/why-stanced-cars-are-incr...

Once body roll is reduced (along with suspension travel), your ability to feel what the car is doing is compromised.

https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=393987

https://www.thedrive.com/news/24102/extremely-stan...

https://carbuzz.com/features/5-tuner-cultures-that...

[YellowCar]

aarondbs said:

I wonder what sort of performance numbers this would give. I’m enjoying my wife’s 140i currently and I imagine this would give similar in a more pleasing package..

Oh, at a guess, I reckon it would dyno at about 267.8 hp @ 7500 rpm, and 203.4 ft lbs @ 6050 rpm :;

[breezer_42]

tommy1973s said:

"definitely room for improvement (mainly in that wheelarch gap)."

Yes, if you intend mainly to track it.

But if a daily driver, no, no and no.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/engineering-expla...

https://www.carscoops.com/2020/01/stanced-vw-golf-...

https://www.driverknowledgetests.com/resources/sho...

https://drivetribe.com/p/why-stanced-cars-are-incr...

Once body roll is reduced (along with suspension travel), your ability to feel what the car is doing is compromised.

https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=393987

https://www.thedrive.com/news/24102/extremely-stan...

https://carbuzz.com/features/5-tuner-cultures-that...

I agree with you in general. However for the MX5 that's all wrong because they're set up from the factory to be 30mm lower than we get them here...they had to be raised from the factory to meet EU pedestrian safety regulations, and from what I understand to achieve the higher ride Mazda just chucked longer springs on it and called it a day...

[fioravanti]

tommy1973s said:

"definitely room for improvement (mainly in that wheelarch gap)."

Yes, if you intend mainly to track it.

But if a daily driver, no, no and no.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/engineering-expla...

https://www.carscoops.com/2020/01/stanced-vw-golf-...

https://www.driverknowledgetests.com/resources/sho...

https://drivetribe.com/p/why-stanced-cars-are-incr...

Once body roll is reduced (along with suspension travel), your ability to feel what the car is doing is compromised.

https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=393987

https://www.thedrive.com/news/24102/extremely-stan...

https://carbuzz.com/features/5-tuner-cultures-that...

Unfortunately MX5s are one of those cars that sit far too high, and roll too much as standard. The ND's roll is particularily unsettling and unnatural. I've had NCs and NDs. I fitted Ohlins to both models, and it utterly transforms them. The Ohlins on the NC is particularily good on UK roads (the setup on the ND is more track focused with stiffer springs). The ride on the Ohlins is easily as good as the stock Sport setup, but without the roll.

If I bought this particular car, the very first thing I would do would be take it to BBR to have Ohlins fitted.

[cerb4.5lee]

260bhp in one of these certainly gets my attention. I bet that it is great fun to drive.

[griffdude]

Ohlins are great but nearly 2000pounds. Or for nearly 800pounds & a bit of DIY, these are really good-

https://www.meisterr.co.uk/products/meisterr-zetac...

[anonymous-user]

breezer_42 said:

I agree with you in general. However for the MX5 that's all wrong because they're set up from the factory to be 30mm lower than we get them here...they had to be raised from the factory to meet EU pedestrian safety regulations, and from what I understand to achieve the higher ride Mazda just chucked longer springs on it and called it a day...

This myth is as old as the bible and just as fictional. The idea that they spent years and hundreds of millions developing the car and then for one of the largest markets thought "fk it" andjust chucked on longer springs without any thought or consideration for how it might affect all that expensively developed and expensively manufactured suspension setup? That passes the critical thinking test?

Leyland may have done that with the MGB but it is inconceivable than an outfit like Mazda would do that at all, let alone across every generation of MX5 as internet lore would have you believe.

The ride height is identical in all world markets for a start.

The roll is hilarious and makes a modest pace on a good road an awful lot of fun; it's exactly the sort of feedback that PHers are always whinging is missing from new cars and then whinge when a car has any feedback. I had the Mazda dealer option lowering springs fitted to mine because I wanted the car a little bit more focussed but I can totally see why the standard car is like it is.

There are a series of videos by savagegeese on YouTube covering the history of the MX5 with interviews with some people from Mazda who really open up about it, including some gems from David Coleman in the US.

[jinba-ittai]

tommy1973s said:

"definitely room for improvement (mainly in that wheelarch gap)."

Yes, if you intend mainly to track it.

But if a daily driver, no, no and no.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/engineering-expla...

https://www.carscoops.com/2020/01/stanced-vw-golf-...

https://www.driverknowledgetests.com/resources/sho...

https://drivetribe.com/p/why-stanced-cars-are-incr...

Once body roll is reduced (along with suspension travel), your ability to feel what the car is doing is compromised.

https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=393987

https://www.thedrive.com/news/24102/extremely-stan...

https://carbuzz.com/features/5-tuner-cultures-that...

you should pass that all on to Mazda, as they sell and fit Mazda lowering springs for the MX5 (and most of their other models too)

[DD3566]

Spent nearly 2 years with a BBR Turbo charged NC1, running 270 BHP and 228 Ft/lb. Initially the boost in power was fun but quickly the novelty wears off. It never felt quite as special as I expected, might be down to the dull 4 cylinder soundtrack, which was just a generic noise rather than anything to write home about even with an aftermarket exhaust. The Turbo imploded after 14 months and ~8000 miles, was on a spirited drive and the oil overheated and clogged the oil feed line. Result was a £750 turbo core replacement as the BBR kit was just out of warranty. After that I never felt I could push the car too hard for fear of losing another turbo, taking it on track was certainly never an option. These cars were never designed to run double the power, and simply can't handle it long term. Other BBR MX5 owners have also reported issues with running FI'd cars on track. Ended up getting rid before I could fit an oil cooler, but even if I had fitted the cooler I don't think I would have fully trusted the car again.

All in with the base car cost (£5500 in 2015) and the cost of a Stage 1 BBR kit + Suspension + fitting (~£7000) I was in for £12,500, sold the car for £7000. In retrospect I should have bought a Boxster or Z4 or S2K rather than going down the Turbo route. Yes the BBR MX5 could probably leave the other options for dead, but the car was soulless and more fun to drive Naturally Aspirated. Unless you can get them cheap (Sub £8000) I wouldn't recommend FI'd MX5's, money is better spent on a properly engineered car

[breezer_42]

stickleback123 said:

This myth is as old as the bible and just as fictional. The idea that they spent years and hundreds of millions developing the car and then for one of the largest markets thought "fk it" andjust chucked on longer springs without any thought or consideration for how it might affect all that expensively developed and expensively manufactured suspension setup? That passes the critical thinking test?

Leyland may have done that with the MGB but it is inconceivable than an outfit like Mazda would do that at all, let alone across every generation of MX5 as internet lore would have you believe.

The ride height is identical in all world markets for a start.

The roll is hilarious and makes a modest pace on a good road an awful lot of fun; it's exactly the sort of feedback that PHers are always whinging is missing from new cars and then whinge when a car has any feedback. I had the Mazda dealer option lowering springs fitted to mine because I wanted the car a little bit more focussed but I can totally see why the standard car is like it is.

There are a series of videos by savagegeese on YouTube covering the history of the MX5 with interviews with some people from Mazda who really open up about it, including some gems from David Coleman in the US.

Interesting, thanks. Is that video the source of your claim? I just went by what Autocar said in its buying guide but am happy to be corrected if it's true!

I run a 10AE and adore how communicative it is. When it comes to replacing the shocks though, decent coilovers will be less than half the cost of the factory Bilstiens and the damned thing is already costing me a multiple of its value in rot so I may have to go aftermarket.

Edited by breezer_42 on Monday 18th May 17:44

[anonymous-user]

DD3566 said:

Spent nearly 2 years with a BBR Turbo charged NC1, running 270 BHP and 228 Ft/lb. Initially the boost in power was fun but quickly the novelty wears off. It never felt quite as special as I expected, might be down to the dull 4 cylinder soundtrack, which was just a generic noise rather than anything to write home about even with an aftermarket exhaust. The Turbo imploded after 14 months and ~8000 miles, was on a spirited drive and the oil overheated and clogged the oil feed line. Result was a £750 turbo core replacement as the BBR kit was just out of warranty. After that I never felt I could push the car too hard for fear of losing another turbo, taking it on track was certainly never an option. These cars were never designed to run double the power, and simply can't handle it long term. Other BBR MX5 owners have also reported issues with running FI'd cars on track. Ended up getting rid before I could fit an oil cooler, but even if I had fitted the cooler I don't think I would have fully trusted the car again.

All in with the base car cost (£5500 in 2015) and the cost of a Stage 1 BBR kit + Suspension + fitting (~£7000) I was in for £12,500, sold the car for £7000. In retrospect I should have bought a Boxster or Z4 or S2K rather than going down the Turbo route. Yes the BBR MX5 could probably leave the other options for dead, but the car was soulless and more fun to drive Naturally Aspirated. Unless you can get them cheap (Sub £8000) I wouldn't recommend FI'd MX5's, money is better spent on a properly engineered car

That's interesting. I think you need to go into these things with your eyes wide open; no modified car, no matter who did it, is going to be as reliable or robust as OEM spec. Even the bigger outfits like BBR don't have anything like the resources and capabilities for development and testing that the manufacturer does; even if they understand all of the detailed component specifications they have no way to model or test if they are exceeding them.

This is very cheap though; I bet a £10k boxster is no more or less likely to go pop

[DD3566]

stickleback123 said:

DD3566 said:

Spent nearly 2 years with a BBR Turbo charged NC1, running 270 BHP and 228 Ft/lb. Initially the boost in power was fun but quickly the novelty wears off. It never felt quite as special as I expected, might be down to the dull 4 cylinder soundtrack, which was just a generic noise rather than anything to write home about even with an aftermarket exhaust. The Turbo imploded after 14 months and ~8000 miles, was on a spirited drive and the oil overheated and clogged the oil feed line. Result was a £750 turbo core replacement as the BBR kit was just out of warranty. After that I never felt I could push the car too hard for fear of losing another turbo, taking it on track was certainly never an option. These cars were never designed to run double the power, and simply can't handle it long term. Other BBR MX5 owners have also reported issues with running FI'd cars on track. Ended up getting rid before I could fit an oil cooler, but even if I had fitted the cooler I don't think I would have fully trusted the car again.

All in with the base car cost (£5500 in 2015) and the cost of a Stage 1 BBR kit + Suspension + fitting (~£7000) I was in for £12,500, sold the car for £7000. In retrospect I should have bought a Boxster or Z4 or S2K rather than going down the Turbo route. Yes the BBR MX5 could probably leave the other options for dead, but the car was soulless and more fun to drive Naturally Aspirated. Unless you can get them cheap (Sub £8000) I wouldn't recommend FI'd MX5's, money is better spent on a properly engineered car

That's interesting. I think you need to go into these things with your eyes wide open; no modified car, no matter who did it, is going to be as reliable or robust as OEM spec. Even the bigger outfits like BBR don't have anything like the resources and capabilities for development and testing that the manufacturer does; even if they understand all of the detailed component specifications they have no way to model or test if they are exceeding them.

This is very cheap though; I bet a £10k boxster is no more or less likely to go pop

Very true, I was slightly naive going into the decision, however I still think the system as a whole shouldn't have been fragile enough to be crippled by a drive through the Cotswolds. Still a sports car after all, not really enjoyable once you lose faith in your ability to lean on it

[pmr01]

stickleback123 said:

DD3566 said:

Spent nearly 2 years with a BBR Turbo charged NC1, running 270 BHP and 228 Ft/lb. Initially the boost in power was fun but quickly the novelty wears off. It never felt quite as special as I expected, might be down to the dull 4 cylinder soundtrack, which was just a generic noise rather than anything to write home about even with an aftermarket exhaust. The Turbo imploded after 14 months and ~8000 miles, was on a spirited drive and the oil overheated and clogged the oil feed line. Result was a £750 turbo core replacement as the BBR kit was just out of warranty. After that I never felt I could push the car too hard for fear of losing another turbo, taking it on track was certainly never an option. These cars were never designed to run double the power, and simply can't handle it long term. Other BBR MX5 owners have also reported issues with running FI'd cars on track. Ended up getting rid before I could fit an oil cooler, but even if I had fitted the cooler I don't think I would have fully trusted the car again.

All in with the base car cost (£5500 in 2015) and the cost of a Stage 1 BBR kit + Suspension + fitting (~£7000) I was in for £12,500, sold the car for £7000. In retrospect I should have bought a Boxster or Z4 or S2K rather than going down the Turbo route. Yes the BBR MX5 could probably leave the other options for dead, but the car was soulless and more fun to drive Naturally Aspirated. Unless you can get them cheap (Sub £8000) I wouldn't recommend FI'd MX5's, money is better spent on a properly engineered car

That's interesting. I think you need to go into these things with your eyes wide open; no modified car, no matter who did it, is going to be as reliable or robust as OEM spec. Even the bigger outfits like BBR don't have anything like the resources and capabilities for development and testing that the manufacturer does; even if they understand all of the detailed component specifications they have no way to model or test if they are exceeding them.

This is very cheap though; I bet a £10k boxster is no more or less likely to go pop

Interesting thread.

My MR2 Roadster has had an SP240 kit fitted around nine years ago and i have never had an ounce of bother with the kit / engine. It was based on the TTE kit originally so maybe that's why.

One of the earlier posters mentioned that this particular MX5 would be as quick as his wife's 140i. I would say maybe not. my car has got 240hp and probably weights 1000kg unladen so probably pretty similar power to weight. While at low speed its pretty similar to the 140 i have as a daily, above 70 it wouldnt be anywhere near...i have mentioned this before to someone though...it makes the 140 feel like a very, very fast MPV.

[anonymous-user]

pmr01 said:

Interesting thread.

My MR2 Roadster has had an SP240 kit fitted around nine years ago and i have never had an ounce of bother with the kit / engine. It was based on the TTE kit originally so maybe that's why.

One of the earlier posters mentioned that this particular MX5 would be as quick as his wife's 140i. I would say maybe not. my car has got 240hp and probably weights 1000kg unladen so probably pretty similar power to weight. While at low speed its pretty similar to the 140 i have as a daily, above 70 it wouldnt be anywhere near...i have mentioned this before to someone though...it makes the 140 feel like a very, very fast MPV.

Yes power to weight ceases to be less important that outright power as speeds rise. My 181bhp 2019 ND will keep up with my 300bhp XJ8 up to 70ish as they have similar power to weight, but then the XJ starts to walk away and above 100 they aren't even close.

[fioravanti]

griffdude said:

Ohlins are great but nearly 2000pounds. Or for nearly 800pounds & a bit of DIY, these are really good-

https://www.meisterr.co.uk/products/meisterr-zetac...

Yes, they are decent and approach what the Ohlins can do on track. For a track only car, they would be ideal. The trick the Ohlins can pull off is be better riding that the OEM Bilstein sport setup...and that is worth the extra money in my opinion. Even on a clean £5k NC1. Really, they are that transformative.

[fioravanti]

DD3566 said:

Spent nearly 2 years with a BBR Turbo charged NC1, running 270 BHP and 228 Ft/lb. Initially the boost in power was fun but quickly the novelty wears off. It never felt quite as special as I expected, might be down to the dull 4 cylinder soundtrack, which was just a generic noise rather than anything to write home about even with an aftermarket exhaust. The Turbo imploded after 14 months and ~8000 miles, was on a spirited drive and the oil overheated and clogged the oil feed line. Result was a £750 turbo core replacement as the BBR kit was just out of warranty. After that I never felt I could push the car too hard for fear of losing another turbo, taking it on track was certainly never an option. These cars were never designed to run double the power, and simply can't handle it long term. Other BBR MX5 owners have also reported issues with running FI'd cars on track. Ended up getting rid before I could fit an oil cooler, but even if I had fitted the cooler I don't think I would have fully trusted the car again.

All in with the base car cost (£5500 in 2015) and the cost of a Stage 1 BBR kit + Suspension + fitting (~£7000) I was in for £12,500, sold the car for £7000. In retrospect I should have bought a Boxster or Z4 or S2K rather than going down the Turbo route. Yes the BBR MX5 could probably leave the other options for dead, but the car was soulless and more fun to drive Naturally Aspirated. Unless you can get them cheap (Sub £8000) I wouldn't recommend FI'd MX5's, money is better spent on a properly engineered car

I can wholeheartedly agree with your summary of the driving experience. I bought a mint 2015 ND last year, and brought it immediately to BBR to have the Turbo kit fitted. I decided before I took the plunge, that I should test their Turbo demonstrator. Man, I was disappointed. The engine completely lost its character. I decided to have the Super 200 kit fitted instead. Yes it was about 50bhp down on power, but if you ever want to track it, which I did, it is the way to go. Utterly bulletproof too. Still ended up with around 210bhp though, and could crack 60 in 5.5 seconds!