Jaguar considered luxury by the public
Discussion
I think they occupy a tricky position in this country. They’re still seen as a (relative) luxury car maker to the older generation but younger people will still generally trust the build quality of BMW or Mercedes more, rightly or wrongly.
I’m in my early fifties and still remember the terrible days of the build quality of Leyland et al. For me Jaguar were always the luxury British brand but only because everything else produced in this country at the time was utterly dire.
I’m in my early fifties and still remember the terrible days of the build quality of Leyland et al. For me Jaguar were always the luxury British brand but only because everything else produced in this country at the time was utterly dire.
Monkeylegend said:
There is a reason why millions of taxi drivers and chauffeurs around the world drive Mercedes rather than Jaguar/BMW/Audi or any Japanese/Korean cars, and it is not for their looks.
Actually there are two reasons for the chauffeur trade.
One of the main reasons is Mercedes sell taxi specification cars.....Actually there are two reasons for the chauffeur trade.
Edited by Monkeylegend on Monday 8th June 21:54
Jags were luxury when the likes of ford and vauxhall could never be spec’d with leather seats, air con, power steering and fuel computers.
Nowadays those fittings are standard or just an option to add to whatever car make or model you choose to buy new now.
Ride quality also was a big part deemed for a luxury car, not feel a bump, quiet engine running, low cabin noise. Again most manufacturers achieve that now also.
All I think that’s left is to own a badge if choosing a brand new car. Like designer label clothing. All does the same thing but some is cheap some is expensive with that logo stitched on. Do I shop in Lidl or Waitrose for food? That’s my take on a Jag or Ford perhaps
Nowadays those fittings are standard or just an option to add to whatever car make or model you choose to buy new now.
Ride quality also was a big part deemed for a luxury car, not feel a bump, quiet engine running, low cabin noise. Again most manufacturers achieve that now also.
All I think that’s left is to own a badge if choosing a brand new car. Like designer label clothing. All does the same thing but some is cheap some is expensive with that logo stitched on. Do I shop in Lidl or Waitrose for food? That’s my take on a Jag or Ford perhaps
Im about to replace my X350 XJR , should have gone years ago but I love it too much. I still get comments from all age groups about wanting it and i must be loaded. I will be lucky to get £1k px or something less from the scrappy when i trade it in for an XE.
I also own a merc SLK which i dont get on with , and ive tried a few bmws and Audis but i just prefer the driving position and comfort of the jag even though im trading down to the baby of the range.
Bonus points for the XE being a supercharged V6 even if its 0-60 of 6 seconds is a step down in performance from the XJR . I hardly get the chance to use the power on my commute so i wont really miss it.
I also own a merc SLK which i dont get on with , and ive tried a few bmws and Audis but i just prefer the driving position and comfort of the jag even though im trading down to the baby of the range.
Bonus points for the XE being a supercharged V6 even if its 0-60 of 6 seconds is a step down in performance from the XJR . I hardly get the chance to use the power on my commute so i wont really miss it.
They never really have been luxury. The only truly luxury brands are the likes of Rolls and Bentley. Jaguar were always cost effective premium cars in William Lyons day. The E type price was way below the DB5 for example. In the Ford era they expanded their market but again still premium cars rather than luxury. They are still premium cars now but the problem is that competition has increased and new markets don’t value the history so happy to buy Lexus, Infinity, Genesis, DS and others. Quality has been a Jaguar issue for so long. First with BL and then broke independence. Ford improved it but not to where it should be and the rapid Tata expansion has seen it suffer again.
bristolracer said:
The Americans (which is where a lot of them are sold) think quite highly of them.
Both accurate statements, I'd say.Over here, Jaguar was a brand driven mostly by surgeons and company directors. It was understatement that made a statement, particularly among old-money families throughout the BOSNYWASH (Boston-New York-Washington DC) corridor.
In recent years, the push for greater volume has seen this old framework fade away -- and Jaguar has acquired an expanded / more inclusive base of customers. Yet it's still not perceived as mass market as the Germans.
One "old thing" that still accompanies discussions of Jaguar today is reliability. Across the vast population of consumers who acquire their car knowledge from word-of-mouth stories shared among family and friends, Jaguar is still the car that may or may not spend a lot of time at the dealership.
"'That's the car that, when you get up to go to work, won't start,' dad used to joke," a friend from leafy corporate Connecticut recently said to me. I replied that the brand is not quite all that, as it was in the 1970s, but I didn't push the matter because, I could sense, it would fall on deaf ears.
Jaguar was certainly a luxury car manufacturer before the mid-1990s. It is difficult to see how they could be seen as anything else when you look at the range of range of cars they were offering at that time - and especially the versions of them which they were predominately selling. Most non-Federal XJ40s sold were the large-engine, high-spec Sovereign 3.6 and 4.0 litre - and by a big margin. Just as with the Series 3 where you rarely saw an XJ6 3.4, comparatively few XJ40 buyers purchased the entry level cars.
XJ40 non-Federal production figures 1986-1990:
XJ6 2.9 = 11,191;
XJ6 3.6 = 9,347
Sovereign 3.6 = 50,291
Daimler 3.6 = 10,314
1991-1994
XJ6 3.2 13,053
XJ6 4.0 13,576
Sovereign 4.0 50336
Daimler 4.0 8,878
So XJ40 production was strongly skewed towards the most expensive models which were very expensive luxury cars, competing with the S Class Mercedes and BMW 7 Series. The Jaguar range was simply the XJ and XJ-S back then. The XJ-S was also a very expensive car - even the entry model had a 4 litre engine, with a choice of that or a V12.
The financial situation at Jaguar (at least in part precipitated by currency movement) precluded investment in new models in the 1990s, forcing the XJ40 to soldier on in face lifted X300 guise, pitting it against the fashionable new BMW E38 - and vastly up-scaled Mercedes W140. Whereas the XJ40 could compete favourably in technology terms with the E32 and W126, as the facelifted X300, it was old-fashioned when compared to the new opponents and was gradually re-positioned beneath them in price - the X308 ended the decade only slightly more expensive than the late XJ40 had been many years before. This was particularly apparent since the lower-priced models seemed to take up a higher percentage of the total sales than had been the case for the Series 3 and XJ40 . This is probably why so many people on PH seem to consider the older XJ to be a 5 series rival, which they certainly were not in their day.
Up to 2000 Jaguar had not made a smaller-bodied 'executive' car for many years. To wrestle with this gap in their range they offered an entry-level car with very little standard equipment and a small engine which was generally underpowered, pitched at a significantly lower price. In the Series cars this was a 3.4 litre; in the XJ40 it was a 2.9 initially, then later, a 3.2. Neither made great sales impact, with almost as many of the most expensive Daimler model being sold as the 2.9 XJ6. This is not surprising, since the buyer at the 5 series price-point does not look for the same attributes as the buyer at the 7 series price point, leading to the XJ being seen as an over-sized 'old man's car' by 5 series buyers.
With the introduction of the S-type Jaguar were selling a much cheaper and higher volume car and from this point, they could no longer be described as a luxury car manufacturer in my view, though they did still offer some luxury models. With the introduction of the X-Type they moved further down-market, particularly once the majority of sales became the manual transmission 4 cylinder diesels. I struggle to see such cars as a Jaguar at all - though of course they are. The Jaguar XJ now made up only a small percentage of the Jaguar cars you'd see on the road. From 2000 if someone said they 'had a Jag', the image conjured was not of a large, expensive saloon (or an older, raffish, once-expensive saloon) - but of a company car provided to a middle manager.
I had a Jaguar XJ Sovereign at this time and had owned one for some years. The difference in the 'dealer experience' from owning the car changed starkly from the introduction of the S-Type and X-Type. Before this the dealer was set up to service and handle a small number of cars and customers. The service was very personal and extensive, to the point they knew who I was and what I wanted. After the S-Type and X-Type it became a conveyor-belt approach: I had to fit in with their schedule, not them with mine. The service (from the same dealer) was far lower - but much cheaper too. It reflected the demands of their very different new customer base, which changed profoundly with the introduction of the two new 'baby' Jags.
A similar dilution has taken place at Mercedes and BMW, so it isn't unique to Jaguar. It is particularly toxic to Jaguar though, since the old Jaguar 'brand values' and unique selling points translate less well into the mid-market than that of Mercedes and BMW. They make a cheaper, pale version of the old car, whereas Jaguar is just lost.
XJ40 non-Federal production figures 1986-1990:
XJ6 2.9 = 11,191;
XJ6 3.6 = 9,347
Sovereign 3.6 = 50,291
Daimler 3.6 = 10,314
1991-1994
XJ6 3.2 13,053
XJ6 4.0 13,576
Sovereign 4.0 50336
Daimler 4.0 8,878
So XJ40 production was strongly skewed towards the most expensive models which were very expensive luxury cars, competing with the S Class Mercedes and BMW 7 Series. The Jaguar range was simply the XJ and XJ-S back then. The XJ-S was also a very expensive car - even the entry model had a 4 litre engine, with a choice of that or a V12.
The financial situation at Jaguar (at least in part precipitated by currency movement) precluded investment in new models in the 1990s, forcing the XJ40 to soldier on in face lifted X300 guise, pitting it against the fashionable new BMW E38 - and vastly up-scaled Mercedes W140. Whereas the XJ40 could compete favourably in technology terms with the E32 and W126, as the facelifted X300, it was old-fashioned when compared to the new opponents and was gradually re-positioned beneath them in price - the X308 ended the decade only slightly more expensive than the late XJ40 had been many years before. This was particularly apparent since the lower-priced models seemed to take up a higher percentage of the total sales than had been the case for the Series 3 and XJ40 . This is probably why so many people on PH seem to consider the older XJ to be a 5 series rival, which they certainly were not in their day.
Up to 2000 Jaguar had not made a smaller-bodied 'executive' car for many years. To wrestle with this gap in their range they offered an entry-level car with very little standard equipment and a small engine which was generally underpowered, pitched at a significantly lower price. In the Series cars this was a 3.4 litre; in the XJ40 it was a 2.9 initially, then later, a 3.2. Neither made great sales impact, with almost as many of the most expensive Daimler model being sold as the 2.9 XJ6. This is not surprising, since the buyer at the 5 series price-point does not look for the same attributes as the buyer at the 7 series price point, leading to the XJ being seen as an over-sized 'old man's car' by 5 series buyers.
With the introduction of the S-type Jaguar were selling a much cheaper and higher volume car and from this point, they could no longer be described as a luxury car manufacturer in my view, though they did still offer some luxury models. With the introduction of the X-Type they moved further down-market, particularly once the majority of sales became the manual transmission 4 cylinder diesels. I struggle to see such cars as a Jaguar at all - though of course they are. The Jaguar XJ now made up only a small percentage of the Jaguar cars you'd see on the road. From 2000 if someone said they 'had a Jag', the image conjured was not of a large, expensive saloon (or an older, raffish, once-expensive saloon) - but of a company car provided to a middle manager.
I had a Jaguar XJ Sovereign at this time and had owned one for some years. The difference in the 'dealer experience' from owning the car changed starkly from the introduction of the S-Type and X-Type. Before this the dealer was set up to service and handle a small number of cars and customers. The service was very personal and extensive, to the point they knew who I was and what I wanted. After the S-Type and X-Type it became a conveyor-belt approach: I had to fit in with their schedule, not them with mine. The service (from the same dealer) was far lower - but much cheaper too. It reflected the demands of their very different new customer base, which changed profoundly with the introduction of the two new 'baby' Jags.
A similar dilution has taken place at Mercedes and BMW, so it isn't unique to Jaguar. It is particularly toxic to Jaguar though, since the old Jaguar 'brand values' and unique selling points translate less well into the mid-market than that of Mercedes and BMW. They make a cheaper, pale version of the old car, whereas Jaguar is just lost.
DanT86 said:
My dad up until recently had a 2014 XF shooting break portfolio 3.0 v6 diesel, it was smooth, comfortable, quiet and handled rather well for a vehicle of its size.
On long drives to visit family in Germany it was the perfect tool could cover the 440miles in under 8 hours without needing to stop for fuel.
Whilst not up there with Bentley/Rolls Royce as luxury it certainly felt luxury sitting inside it.
You would be hard pressed to find any modern car that couldn't manage 440 miles on a tank of fuel.On long drives to visit family in Germany it was the perfect tool could cover the 440miles in under 8 hours without needing to stop for fuel.
Whilst not up there with Bentley/Rolls Royce as luxury it certainly felt luxury sitting inside it.
I moved from a Cayenne (GTS) to a F Pace (R Sport) and I've had a lot more positive comments about the Jag than the Cayenne ever got. Here in the US I think it's probably on a par with the other Euro motors like BMW and Merc but maybe with a slight edge as being old rather than flash money.
So I would vote yes as perceived luxury brand.
So I would vote yes as perceived luxury brand.
Bagzie88 said:
You would be hard pressed to find any modern car that couldn't manage 440 miles on a tank of fuel.
I wouldn't say it's that common an ability outside the bargiest of barges:- I'd say the average tank size is about 50L (My current on is ~46L) - Assuming a perfect 40MPG, that'd put you dead on maximum range and well into fuel light bingo - Not where I'd want to be on a continental cruise 
As for the thread though, I'd call Jag Premium / luxury sport:- PM's car is the Armoured XJ! - I wouldn't say it's of the same standards (Car for car) as a Merc, for example, until you get to the upper parts of the respective ranges.
The crown has slipped at Jaguar. Whilst they used to be luxurious (though I'd argue only the full spec Daimler models were ever 'luxury') they are rather chintz now. Not bad cars by any stretch but rather common.
Their image isn't helped by JLR's constant money troubles and difficulty in developing technology to match their competitors.
Their image isn't helped by JLR's constant money troubles and difficulty in developing technology to match their competitors.
Now these were from the days when a Jaguar badge actually meant something, watch the plebs move over around 1.10:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JE82FZpq0qM
I’m not sure an XF today has quite the same effect.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JE82FZpq0qM
I’m not sure an XF today has quite the same effect.
Brooky90 said:
There is currently an interesting topic in this forum tonight about Mercedes and where they stand in terms of luxury. I'm going to put the same topic here but about Jaguar. What's everyone's opinions on them as a luxury car past and present? I know their not quite Bentley but do they stand out as a status symbol? I'm currently working six days a week to save up for a Jaguar XF.
I really like the larger Jags, always have. The only other car on my street that I stop to look at is my neighbour's XFR. Sounds glorious too.I guess its down to your audience, if your talking to someone over 60 then yes, Jaguar will resonate strong images of XK150's. D,Types, E-Types, Mk2's etc and their standing will be that much higher then anything the Germans can offer. Speak to someone below the age of 30 and they'll only consider a Jag as an old mans chariot with zero appeal.
Gassing Station | Jaguar | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff