Monday 11th April 2022

Alfa Romeo 164 QV | High Mile Club

New petrol-powered Alfa saloons aren't long for this world - time for an icon, then

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Now doesn't seem like a particularly good time to be brilliant at building engines. Once the vision of a dystopian future, a world without any new combustion-powered cars doesn't seem all that far off. And where an average car might have been saved by a great engine, batteries and motors don't have quite the same effect. It's something those manufacturers famed for V6s, V8s and V12s will have to get to grips with pretty quick. Alfa Romeo is the latest to join the list, confirming last week that the new Giulia will be electric only. The current Quadrifoglio was definitely one of those cars you could buy just for its engine; that the rest of it was so good is what made it a legend in its own lifetime.

We'll concede that the link between electric Giulias and this 164 QV is a little tenuous, though the fact an executive saloon from 1994 can garner such excitement shows how important engines have been to Alfa over the years. This isn't just any old four-door saloon car. Furthermore, with 125,000 miles racked up over 28 years, the 164 isn't that high mileage, averaging less than 4,500 miles a year. But just look at it - this had to feature somewhere, somehow.

Arguably there's no such thing as an unattractive Alfa Romeo 164, the proportions and details making it easily the best looking of the Type Four execs (that also included the Fiat Croma, Saab 9000 and Lancia Thema). But some are even more appealing than most, and this must be one: a 230hp QV in Rossi Red with the black lower half, stunning 18-inch split rim wheels, a leather Recaro interior (believed to be the only one left in this spec) and that eye-popping engine bay. Even without reading the ad this looks a real treat, with owners club stickers in the window and a remarkably well preserved interior for something almost 30 years old.

There's more to be encouraged by in the extensive advert, too, with plenty of bills and history extending back to the 1990s. The 164 actually had an engine rebuild at the turn of the century when a timing belt broke; 2000 wasn't a great year for it, with another big bill for the air-con and starter motor. Most importantly, however, the receipts are all there in what's described as a "thick sheaf of invoices" that accompany the car. Something like a 164 QV was never likely to be bought by a non-enthusiast; the history and apparent condition of this one point to very conscientious care.

There are blemishes, inevitably, but very minor ones, the ad pointing to a small tear in the leather and a digital display in the dash that's only half working. Neither is likely to spoil the next owner's enjoyment of this car. It would take something a lot more serious than a slightly dodgy display to put anyone off an Alfa Romeo that looks this good and features that engine under the bonnet.

Also, the QV is for sale at £9,995, which really doesn't seem an awful lot when every 'modern classic' out there is apparently worth at least £7,500 by dint of being from the 20th century. But the 164 even compares favourably with its contemporaries; £10k is what's being asked for this Mercedes W124 diesel (!), with 50 per cent more being asked for an E28 5 Series. And why waste precious fuel on anything less magnificent than a Busso-powered Alfa? Might make a nice pairing, one day soon, with a battery powered Giulia...

See the full ad here

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• Electric Alfa Giulia confirmed
• Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio vs Porsche Taycan Turbo

 

[dunnoreally]

Is the 164 really that much of an icon? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they're lovely, but when I hear the phrase "iconic Alfa Romeo" I'm thinking more of Spiders and Suds and the Giulia Sprint GTA, and perhaps the 8C, GTV6 and Montreal.

I feel like the 164's a car you only really know about if you're either an Alfa anorak or were there at the time.

Not that that's a point against it, of course. I happen to quite like understatement, personally.

[aarondbs]

I had one, mine was black on black but I loved that car. Can't remember what my then girlfriend must have said for me to get rid of it!!

It was great in so many ways, handled well, sounded epic with a stainless exhaust, went and stopped well after a major service and refresh. The sculpted rear sears always looked special and the fronts were excellent to sit in.

That dodgy dash though is a distraction and one mine suffered from. I believe they are fixable.

[LankyFreak]

God, that's bloody lovely!

[dapprman]

Something smells about that one. It is a pre-face lift model. I thought the 24v engine only came in the post facelift. Perhaps it was an engine swap, not an engine rebuild ?

[aaron_2000]

My god that's good looking

[Twoshoe]

dapprman said:

Something smells about that one. It is a pre-face lift model. I thought the 24v engine only came in the post facelift. Perhaps it was an engine swap, not an engine rebuild ?

It's not a pre-facelift one. You're correct about the 24v engine only coming with the facelift and all facelift cars came with bigger/longer bumpers apart from the Cloverleaf which, for reasons I can't remember, stuck with pre-facelift bumpers. I think it looks better for it in fact. An engine swap would probably not be as straightforward as you might think as post-facelift engines were mounted lower in the chassis in an attempt to improve the handling iirc.

P.S. Is that a Studebaker in the background of the first shot?

Edited by Twoshoe on Monday 11th April 12:27

[Fink-Nottle]

Brilliant design. Even the ugly plastic trim, ubiquitous in period, can't diminish it. As the article rightly says, today this is one of the few remaining underpriced classics from that era.

I dream of owning a Q4 one day, which was the AWD version, but I understand these have some unobtainably unique parts so that a routine repair could turn out to be a total write off.

[Spuff_Monkey]

Twoshoe said:

It's not a pre-facelift one. You're correct about the 24v engine only coming with the facelift and all facelift cars came with bigger/longer bumpers apart from the Cloverleaf which, for reasons I can't remember, stuck with pre-facelift bumpers. I think it looks better for it in fact. An engine swap would probably not be as straightforward as you might think as post-facelift engines were mounted lower in the chassis in an attempt to improve the handling iirc.

P.S. Is that a Studebaker in the background of the first shot?

Edited by Twoshoe on Monday 11th April 12:27

You mean this red yank? Chrysler 300K, not sure what year, maybe 1964.

Edited by Spuff_Monkey on Monday 11th April 12:55

Edited by Spuff_Monkey on Monday 11th April 12:55

Edited by Spuff_Monkey on Monday 11th April 12:56

[Arsecati]

Absolutely gorgeous, and a great price too (I was guessing around £15k before looking at the price). I remember looking to buy one in the late 90's when I was still in my 20's, and was actually talked out of buying one by the dealer himself during the test drive! It was an Alfa specialist in central London that basically dealt with older, more expensive Italian fayre, but it was the 164 3.0 V6 I wanted, and I finally had the money to go for it. The boss of the dealership went with me in the car, but basically scared me off by listing off the costs of all the replacement parts I'd be looking at in the future - from the exhaust to the air con. I think he was doing me a favour, seeing as I was still young and that this was going to be all my money, so fair play to him in retrospect (ended up buying an Audi 100/A6 instead....... yawn!). Still never got around to scratching that Alfa itch..... but this one looks soo tempting!!

[Nicolas Lazar]

Les temps, les temps. Remember seeing the 164 the first time in Italy on vacation, the first summer they were out. Looked VERY good. And always very fast on the autostrada. Easier times, more joyful ...

[wpa1975]

Gorgeous looking car.

[Iamnotkloot]

Yeah, that's lovely. Always liked the looks of these, preferred them to the 166 that followed

[napoleondynamite]

That is an absolute beauty!

Nostalgia always plays a part when you look back on old cars but I really can't imagine any 'normal' large car of today being revered in quite the same way in 30 years time..

Peak car design has well and truly passed, or have I just become my Dad..

[georgeyboy12345]

Love the two-tone

[valiant]

Absolute beauty and considering the price of some of the ‘classics’ listed recently, it seems decent value.

Always loved these since I was picked up in a 164 taxi in Rome many, many moons ago and was driven to my hotel in the typical Roman taxi way.

[Strugs]

Just.. yes..

[Twoshoe]

Fink-Nottle said:

Brilliant design. Even the ugly plastic trim, ubiquitous in period, can't diminish it. As the article rightly says, today this is one of the few remaining underpriced classics from that era.

I dream of owning a Q4 one day, which was the AWD version, but I understand these have some unobtainably unique parts so that a routine repair could turn out to be a total write off.

There's a Q4 that appears at car shows near me in Somerset occasionally. It's an amazing metallic red colour, lhd (they're all lhd) and 6-speed (the only 164 model that was 6-speed, trivia fans). And, yes, I imagine some spare parts are very very difficult to get!

[loudlashadjuster]

Twoshoe said:

It's not a pre-facelift one. You're correct about the 24v engine only coming with the facelift and all facelift cars came with bigger/longer bumpers apart from the Cloverleaf which, for reasons I can't remember, stuck with pre-facelift bumpers. I think it looks better for it in fact. An engine swap would probably not be as straightforward as you might think as post-facelift engines were mounted lower in the chassis in an attempt to improve the handling iirc.

Absolutely. This has the facelift slimmer lights.

[cerb4.5lee]

dunnoreally said:

I feel like the 164's a car you only really know about if you're either an Alfa anorak or were there at the time.

I'm not an Alfa anorak, but I do always remember these at the time and it was a car that I seriously lusted after. They are mega cool I reckon, and they are definitely one of my favourite Alfas.

[Panamax]

If you're thinking of buying one of these make you take it for a thorough test drive and check you're comfortable with its road manners. The one I tried back in the day wouldn't accelerate in a straight line (torque steer) and wouldn't brake in a straight line either (despite ABS). The 2-litre Twinspark may be a more balanced package.

Nonetheless, that Alfa engine is an absolute peach!