How far have we come in our lifetime?
Discussion
StevieBee said:
IMO, one of societies biggest gains has also led to one its greatest issues. Gender equality.
Bit controversial this but bear with me.
In the 70s and most of the 80s, mortgages were generally determined on 3.5 x times the main wage earner's salary. This set the price of property which for many looking to own their own home meant that houses were affordable.
As women gained greater equality and access to higher paying jobs (a good thing), mortgages began to take into account both salaries (also good, on the face of it).
But, women at some point in their lives also become mothers at which point, income drops and/or outgoings increase. This places pressure on both husband and wife to continue to work and work harder for longer hours to preserve their standard of living. This has created what the press like to call a Childcare Crisis.
There should not be a Childcare Crisis. The job of caring for a child rests with the family, principally, the Mother. It's not something that should be out-sourced.
A friend of mine runs a chain of childcare centres. Many kids get dropped off at 7am and collected at 6pm. I'm 55 and I think my generation benefited enormously from coming home from school and having Mum there, cooking our teas. The lack of this today, is, I think, eroding much of what's good about family which in turn leads to a drop in long term relationships which then negatively impacts society.
Overall, we've come a long way with gender equality but have done so with little thought to the nuances.
I completely agree. I'm not saying it should be the woman that stays at home but one of the parents should be there for when the kids get home.Bit controversial this but bear with me.
In the 70s and most of the 80s, mortgages were generally determined on 3.5 x times the main wage earner's salary. This set the price of property which for many looking to own their own home meant that houses were affordable.
As women gained greater equality and access to higher paying jobs (a good thing), mortgages began to take into account both salaries (also good, on the face of it).
But, women at some point in their lives also become mothers at which point, income drops and/or outgoings increase. This places pressure on both husband and wife to continue to work and work harder for longer hours to preserve their standard of living. This has created what the press like to call a Childcare Crisis.
There should not be a Childcare Crisis. The job of caring for a child rests with the family, principally, the Mother. It's not something that should be out-sourced.
A friend of mine runs a chain of childcare centres. Many kids get dropped off at 7am and collected at 6pm. I'm 55 and I think my generation benefited enormously from coming home from school and having Mum there, cooking our teas. The lack of this today, is, I think, eroding much of what's good about family which in turn leads to a drop in long term relationships which then negatively impacts society.
Overall, we've come a long way with gender equality but have done so with little thought to the nuances.
I benefited from having my mum at the house when I left in the morning and also being there when I came home from school.
Not just for making my tea, but help with homework and general support. From her I learned how to look after myself, iron clothes, cook, sew etc
My dad taught me about cleaning his car
My kids did not get any of this as we were often both gone before they went to school and both back after teatime.
Lots of money spent on nannies and after school clubs.
You can also see how some of the young are always in trouble, in gangs etc with no parent to parent them at home.
Alex_225 said:
Oddly I look back at growing up, born in 1982 and although life is different in my head it's not completely alien.
If I look at purely personal things, music and media has moved on in terms of everything being streamed, no VHS and hardly CDs anymore. But, video games and computers existed when I was old enough to take an interest in them, they've just got better and better. Internet arrived when I was 13-14ish but again wasn't until 2002/3 that it hit it's stride.
I'm 5 years older, and I agree that many major things have not changed that much, they've just become betterIf I look at purely personal things, music and media has moved on in terms of everything being streamed, no VHS and hardly CDs anymore. But, video games and computers existed when I was old enough to take an interest in them, they've just got better and better. Internet arrived when I was 13-14ish but again wasn't until 2002/3 that it hit it's stride.
(It is worth noting that less-wealthy people now have access to things that they did not have in the past)
...but, there is so much more choice in all kinds of things, information on tap and conveniences nowadays that were just not there 30-40 years ago, no matter how rich somebody was. If you were transported back to 1985, many things would seem more difficult.
Alex_225 said:
Cars have moved on in that they all have aircon and electric windows which were a novelty until about 2000 but I don't recall having a car that broke down etc.
I suspect if I saw a vide of someone driving around in say 1988-1990 it would look different but in my head 2022 doesn't look as futuristic as I'd have anticipated in 1990! haha
Agreed. These cars are not radically different in concept:I suspect if I saw a vide of someone driving around in say 1988-1990 it would look different but in my head 2022 doesn't look as futuristic as I'd have anticipated in 1990! haha
This, however, although still packaged quite similarly, has moved things on a bit:
Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 25th April 14:50
Bannock said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Well, buddy, I was responding to you (and the guy who posted it orginally come to that) agreeing with a very bald statement that "The job of caring for a child rests with the family, principally, the Mother. It's not something that should be out-sourced." Which is fairly clear and fairly easy to draw conclusions from. There is absolutley no need for child care to be principally the mother's concern, and the question of "out sourcing" as you casually put it is more complex that you make out.
Seeing as you chose not to have children, maybe you aren't the best qualified to hold court on the subject of modern parenthood. Whatever you think you're sure about. As a man I'd rather have been at home for the children, it was an absolute joy to be a parent. It was far more enjoyable than going to work, I can assure you. But equally I'm happy that my children had the opportunity to socialise with other children and learn from other adults as they grew up - even if I'd been a full time at home parent I'd have sent them to nursery too.
I am in no way criticising those that do. I am suggesting that society has not benefited from this and is actually suffering as a result.
The point I was making, which Isaac Hunt (best user name on PH by the way!
) has correctly identified is that the progression towards gender equality has, in this regards, been a retrograde step because it has removed the ability of women to choose - or at least made choosing difficult.Socialisation of children is vital for their development, no-one is disputing that. But so too is family and there's been a growing imbalance between the two for many years.
Bannock said:
There is absolutley no need for child care to be principally the mother's concern
I completely agree. But there is a need for a Mother be a Mother as there is a Father to be a Father - the two disciplines (for want a better term) are necessarily and beneficially different but equality has muddled this up and thrown in outside parties for good measure. Personally, I believe that women naturally make far better mothers than blokes make fathers.
As with all these things, one can cherry pick examples that demonstrate a contrary position but when you look at the whole, one has to conclude that there's something that's been lost on the nation of family which is detrimental to society.
Alex_225 said:
I suspect if I saw a vide of someone driving around in say 1988-1990 it would look different but in my head 2022 doesn't look as futuristic as I'd have anticipated in 1990! haha
Here's a vid of some driving in 1990:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ--3358R5A
I only picked this video because it's my neck of the woods and I had it saved on my YouTube account.
Really very little substantial has changed. That road (the A605) that's in the opening minutes has largely been replaced by an all-new route but the bits that still exist look virtually identical. Peterborough hasn't physically changed much other than there being much more traffic (it's striking how few lorries there are in that video, while now the ring road is full of them due to the boom in warehousing/distribution centres) and the road surfaces are in better condition. It's also notable that some parts of the roadside are much, much more verdant and overgrown than they were in 1990 and other bits are much neater.
But, as you say, other than the roads being full of 1980s and 1970s cars it really doesn't look that different. The physical difference between 1990 and 2022 is much smaller than the 32 years between 1958 and 1990. But the real changes aren't in the built environment but in how the people live - where they've come from, where they live, what sort of house they have, what they have in that house, what job they do, how they do that job, how they get to that job, what they do in their spare time, what their goals and ambitions are and so on. In that respect I would guess the difference between 1958 and 1990 is much smaller than between 1990 and 2022.
the inequality of a voting system that can give a majority of 80 seats to a party that gained 43.6% of the
popular vote is something we seem unwilling or unable to change.
that it gives us stronger and more effective governments compared to the wishy washy multi-party coalitions common in europe is something ive yet to be convinced of.
As someone said before, 40 years on from 1982 is not as different as 40 years back ie 1942.
Music for example. 1942 is mega different from 1982, but 40 years later it is much of a muchness.
Same for cars. I ran an E36 BMW from new until last year. Only sold it due to the ULEZ.
A 90s designed car still bring used as a daily in 2021.
A 60s car in the 90s would have been a right old antique.
The big difference is small stuff. Music players, phones (which are really amazing hand held computers) and other tiny tech.
Music for example. 1942 is mega different from 1982, but 40 years later it is much of a muchness.
Same for cars. I ran an E36 BMW from new until last year. Only sold it due to the ULEZ.
A 90s designed car still bring used as a daily in 2021.
A 60s car in the 90s would have been a right old antique.
The big difference is small stuff. Music players, phones (which are really amazing hand held computers) and other tiny tech.
Whats on Second said:
the inequality of a voting system that can give a majority of 80 seats to a party that gained 43.6% of the
popular vote is something we seem unwilling or unable to change.
that it gives us stronger and more effective governments compared to the wishy washy multi-party coalitions common in europe is something ive yet to be convinced of.
croyde said:
As someone said before, 40 years on from 1982 is not as different as 40 years back ie 1942.
Music for example. 1942 is mega different from 1982, but 40 years later it is much of a muchness.
Same for cars. I ran an E36 BMW from new until last year. Only sold it due to the ULEZ.
A 90s designed car still bring used as a daily in 2021.
A 60s car in the 90s would have been a right old antique.
The big difference is small stuff. Music players, phones (which are really amazing hand held computers) and other tiny tech.
But look at the real changes. The world wide web (not to be confused with the internet, which is far older), IoT, mobile telephony and computing. Those things didn't exist in a meaningful way in society at all in the early 80s yet now make life largely pointless for millions of people worldwide. Music for example. 1942 is mega different from 1982, but 40 years later it is much of a muchness.
Same for cars. I ran an E36 BMW from new until last year. Only sold it due to the ULEZ.
A 90s designed car still bring used as a daily in 2021.
A 60s car in the 90s would have been a right old antique.
The big difference is small stuff. Music players, phones (which are really amazing hand held computers) and other tiny tech.
Looking back my parents had a nice detached house in the 70s, a sweeney granada, my mum and friends mums didn't work but used to take us swimming etc, my dad retired with a pension which now pays a lot more than mine does and is far better off than me. NHS dentists were easy to find, public transport seemed cheap, you could get university grants, not a loan.
So for me things have not moved on at all from a quality of living point of view.
So for me things have not moved on at all from a quality of living point of view.
Driver101 said:
I've never understood the positive nostalgia that people look back on their hometowns and lives. The standard of living in the 80s wouldn't be tolerated now.
Basic houses with single glazed windows and hot air heating.
Houses that stunk of cigarettes and the wallpaper stained yellow.
Someone always landed on dogs dirt during a game of football. Dogs were just left to roam and owners didn't ever pick up poo back then. They let their dogs do their business on playing fields.
A shower or bath was a weekly occurrence as the cost of hot water was significant.
Between the smell of cigarettes, dog poo and once a week showers we must have all stank.
The condition of the streets and cities wasn't great either. It's only once you watch back you realise things weren't what you remembered.
One of my most vivid memories was in the late 80s when I was about 6Basic houses with single glazed windows and hot air heating.
Houses that stunk of cigarettes and the wallpaper stained yellow.
Someone always landed on dogs dirt during a game of football. Dogs were just left to roam and owners didn't ever pick up poo back then. They let their dogs do their business on playing fields.
A shower or bath was a weekly occurrence as the cost of hot water was significant.
Between the smell of cigarettes, dog poo and once a week showers we must have all stank.
The condition of the streets and cities wasn't great either. It's only once you watch back you realise things weren't what you remembered.
Out for the day with my mates on our bikes, was a rough estate with a big field and bmx track in it about 10 mins ride away, so we’d all head down there
Dogs running around was nothing new, but at the far side of the field was a massive pack of dogs around 50-70 or so
They were running around the city attacking people walking dogs etc. this police van came racing across the grass, side door opens, copper jumps out and literally starts throwing us in the back, we then race off to the football goal 100 meters or so away and grab some more kids. We then got thrown in the local sports club and told to wait until the adults said it was safe to leave.
After that rumour has it some dogs were shot and others intentionally run over by the rozzers
Story is mostly true I think, but I’ve probably hyped it up a bit!
croyde said:
In the 70s I'd get the bus to the shopping centre to play in the lifts in Allders.
I'd then search the gutters for 1/2 pennies as the old folk used to drop them.
Find 4 and that was my bus fare home.
It's £1.60 now.
Think yourself lucky I'd then search the gutters for 1/2 pennies as the old folk used to drop them.
Find 4 and that was my bus fare home.
It's £1.60 now.
I's a minimum of £2.40 in our area or a day rider at £4
Nip to see relatives near Blackpool and it's minimum £2.10 or a 24 hour pass for £6
Boringvolvodriver said:
That takes me back! Worked on Hessle Road for a couple of years 1981 to 1982 and very familiar with the road having lived west of Hull for 21 years from the early 70s . I could tell a few stories .
Can remember Clive Sullivan Road being built and the lovely smell as you drove down last the fish docks!
A blast from the past for me. I went to college in Hull (1977-80). The OH I brought and I were looking for digs and one place was on Coltman Street, whose sign flashed up in the video. We were put off by there having been a murder down there the week before! Can remember Clive Sullivan Road being built and the lovely smell as you drove down last the fish docks!
We started off in a house in Withernsea (strange place) then Hedon and lastly, Gilberdyke. Happy Days.
Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff