Discussion
I have a S2000 thread going at the min but the cost seem to getting a little high. so i looking back to plan "A". BIKE engines, as far as im aware there are 3 main engines as below. i have a Q,A if you al dont mind
Yamaha R1
Honda Fireblade
hayabusa
- what is going to me the least trouble
- BHP (simple really)
- are they and pros or cons with any of the engine.
- when shopping for a pre own. what should i look for. (baffled sump is a need be in my mind)
thanks for reading
Yamaha R1
Honda Fireblade
hayabusa
- what is going to me the least trouble
- BHP (simple really)
- are they and pros or cons with any of the engine.
- when shopping for a pre own. what should i look for. (baffled sump is a need be in my mind)
thanks for reading
Edited by madmatt1985 on Thursday 16th October 23:47
I saw your post on cost of 2K, here in Malaysia you can get a s200 with a 6 speed, turbo and all electrics starting at 800 pounds (depending on exchange, these are everything redy to fit.
Do a search half cuts Malaysia and you'll find suppliers who bring in 1/2 cars from Japan, its big business here.
I shipped an engine, sea freight from the UK to Malaysia and it is around 350 pounds, so its not impossible and the price dosn't doble for two engines.
Do a search half cuts Malaysia and you'll find suppliers who bring in 1/2 cars from Japan, its big business here.
I shipped an engine, sea freight from the UK to Malaysia and it is around 350 pounds, so its not impossible and the price dosn't doble for two engines.
fireblades are the proven pound for pound racers engine and are pretty much bullet proof.
My mtaes have hyabusa which I am sure would cost more than an s2k engine due to the requirement to dry sump it. These kits are around £1300+ at the least. an '07 busa will cost around £3500.
I went for a 2003 R1 with baffeled sump and its fantasticly quick. Its an early fuel injected model so the power delivery is smoother than that of a carb'd kit car BEC.
I would join locostbuilders.co.uk and get sources of info from there. nearly all the main guys in the industry are on there as well as some really great forum users too.
i went the pussy route and got my MK built for me professionaly and love it!
go on!!!!!
capable of keeping with an R400
nothing in the engine baby to add weight
padles rock!
My mtaes have hyabusa which I am sure would cost more than an s2k engine due to the requirement to dry sump it. These kits are around £1300+ at the least. an '07 busa will cost around £3500.
I went for a 2003 R1 with baffeled sump and its fantasticly quick. Its an early fuel injected model so the power delivery is smoother than that of a carb'd kit car BEC.
I would join locostbuilders.co.uk and get sources of info from there. nearly all the main guys in the industry are on there as well as some really great forum users too.
i went the pussy route and got my MK built for me professionaly and love it!
go on!!!!!
capable of keeping with an R400
nothing in the engine baby to add weight
padles rock!
^^^^^ pretty much what he said.
Fireblade, pretty bomb proof well proven maybe not the most powerful but dam quick.
R1, again pretty bomb proof, well proven more power than blade.
Busa, ££££'s Having said that I am currently installing one to replace a blade that was in car for 6 years until I lost 4th gear, (blade engine now fixed and in a westfiled) engine came in at £1500, not bad for 180bhp and a 6 speed sequential box, I'm not dry sumping but using a modde'd std sump and a accusump, plenty of people do run busa's with just sump mods, dry sump can be a bit ott belt n braces unless for all out race use, and dry sumps can fail too don't forget, more to go wrong, all my own personal opinion and not cast in stone.
Dont discount the ZX12, that was top of my shopping list till I found a busa at ZX12 money.
locostbuilders is a great source of BEC information, you have for example Andy of AB performance on there, Malc of Yorkshire engines........ the list goes on.
Fireblade, pretty bomb proof well proven maybe not the most powerful but dam quick.
R1, again pretty bomb proof, well proven more power than blade.
Busa, ££££'s Having said that I am currently installing one to replace a blade that was in car for 6 years until I lost 4th gear, (blade engine now fixed and in a westfiled) engine came in at £1500, not bad for 180bhp and a 6 speed sequential box, I'm not dry sumping but using a modde'd std sump and a accusump, plenty of people do run busa's with just sump mods, dry sump can be a bit ott belt n braces unless for all out race use, and dry sumps can fail too don't forget, more to go wrong, all my own personal opinion and not cast in stone.
Dont discount the ZX12, that was top of my shopping list till I found a busa at ZX12 money.
locostbuilders is a great source of BEC information, you have for example Andy of AB performance on there, Malc of Yorkshire engines........ the list goes on.
is that james may and the stig driving your kit car there LOL
well i want to start a project in the spring ready for the summer. but i want to get it right first time, so im doing my homework. iv always had a soft spot for the R1 as a bike but at the same time the fireblade sounds like it take more of a beating.
im gessing i can have the flappy paddle gear shift on any bike engine
the concultion that iv come to what meets my need in look/speed (its got to look pritty) is this http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/724455.htm and tbh if this car is still for sale come december (about the time i will have the money all being well) i will go view it.
well i want to start a project in the spring ready for the summer. but i want to get it right first time, so im doing my homework. iv always had a soft spot for the R1 as a bike but at the same time the fireblade sounds like it take more of a beating.
im gessing i can have the flappy paddle gear shift on any bike engine
the concultion that iv come to what meets my need in look/speed (its got to look pritty) is this http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/724455.htm and tbh if this car is still for sale come december (about the time i will have the money all being well) i will go view it.
The sump mods are something that can cost more than the engine, ie Busa. John, how tall is your busa with the standard sump? What is it in? I have had a 135bhp 'blade and now a 160+bhp R1, but if i was honest I cannot say the 2003 R1 is significantly faster (of course it is, but does about 5mpg less too!). Of course that could be because familiarity makes you want more,but anyone on a budget and wanting no catalists should not rule out a blade or ZX9 (with the strong gearbox). If you keep the car below 450kgs, i am not saying it is the fasting thing on four wheels but it certainly takes something mental to comfortably beat one.
I fly the flag for the R1, no dry sump reqd, 160bhp, cheap to replace, but I would certainly take a look at the ZX12 over a busa if you need to dry sump. Not that the Busa is not great, it is just the ZX12 seems a bit cheaper, probobly due to so masny cars like Radicals using Busa engines keeping used parts high. Mr. Griffin raced a dry sumped ZX12 in RGB with very few problems and won the championship, so they can take the abuse in bog standard form. Tuning scope however, and MEGA power, will always mean the Busa is the best choice. More companies seem to tune Busas, Holeshot can get insane power from them if you are a serious mentalist. But less is sometimes more....
I fly the flag for the R1, no dry sump reqd, 160bhp, cheap to replace, but I would certainly take a look at the ZX12 over a busa if you need to dry sump. Not that the Busa is not great, it is just the ZX12 seems a bit cheaper, probobly due to so masny cars like Radicals using Busa engines keeping used parts high. Mr. Griffin raced a dry sumped ZX12 in RGB with very few problems and won the championship, so they can take the abuse in bog standard form. Tuning scope however, and MEGA power, will always mean the Busa is the best choice. More companies seem to tune Busas, Holeshot can get insane power from them if you are a serious mentalist. But less is sometimes more....
id like somthing that will give me power without to much tuning. as over woking the engine will genrely shorten its life.
bit of a cheaky request. but are there any bike engine boys out there willing to take me for ride in the essex area?? maybe at the next PH meet ?
EDIT. CANT TYPE TODAY
bit of a cheaky request. but are there any bike engine boys out there willing to take me for ride in the essex area?? maybe at the next PH meet ?
Edited by madmatt1985 on Saturday 18th October 14:11
Edited by madmatt1985 on Saturday 18th October 14:16
EDIT. CANT TYPE TODAY
Edited by madmatt1985 on Saturday 18th October 14:17
Kriss, Jon, Lee et al have said it for the most part.
My views are as follows:
Carb'd blade - easiest install, well proven, weak point is gearbox when abused or raced
2001 (5JJ) R1 - My particular choice as I wanted to keep the wiring really simple. Upgraded very slightly over 99-00 (4XV) model.
2002-2003 R1 (5PW) - As 5JJ but with injection. Apparently smoother; additional wiring and cost from power commander. The preferred choice of many.
2004+ R1s - Don't believe the hype. More bhp in the bike, mostly due to clever ram-air intake. You will have great difficulty replicating this in the car. Less well proven. Not worth the extra £££ over the 5PW. Josh Smith's 2005 engined RGB Phoenix certainly has no more grunt than Paul Rogers' 2003 engined version (which is a bargain at £8500!)
ZX12R - What a motor for the money! Check-out what's won the RGB chamionship for the last two years.
Pre 2008 Busa - The ultimate (until recently) both in terms of cost and power. But, is it worth the premium over the ZX12R? I'd personally struggle to justify it.
ZX14 - The big bike that everyone wanted, until....
'08 Busa - The one to have if money is no object. Makes 187bhp at the wheel in the bike (according to yesterday's Telegraph); 12bhp more than the ZX14. In a back to back test, apparently the stock '08 busa was quicker in a Radical than an identical car with a Powertec blueprinted '07 spec motor.
Incidentally, since you like R1s and MNRs, here's mine:
These are just my opinions, but I, like Jon and Lee have been around these cars for a long time and have been through the same decision process as you more than once, so I hope I've helped.
Cheers
TC
My views are as follows:
Carb'd blade - easiest install, well proven, weak point is gearbox when abused or raced
2001 (5JJ) R1 - My particular choice as I wanted to keep the wiring really simple. Upgraded very slightly over 99-00 (4XV) model.
2002-2003 R1 (5PW) - As 5JJ but with injection. Apparently smoother; additional wiring and cost from power commander. The preferred choice of many.
2004+ R1s - Don't believe the hype. More bhp in the bike, mostly due to clever ram-air intake. You will have great difficulty replicating this in the car. Less well proven. Not worth the extra £££ over the 5PW. Josh Smith's 2005 engined RGB Phoenix certainly has no more grunt than Paul Rogers' 2003 engined version (which is a bargain at £8500!)
ZX12R - What a motor for the money! Check-out what's won the RGB chamionship for the last two years.
Pre 2008 Busa - The ultimate (until recently) both in terms of cost and power. But, is it worth the premium over the ZX12R? I'd personally struggle to justify it.
ZX14 - The big bike that everyone wanted, until....
'08 Busa - The one to have if money is no object. Makes 187bhp at the wheel in the bike (according to yesterday's Telegraph); 12bhp more than the ZX14. In a back to back test, apparently the stock '08 busa was quicker in a Radical than an identical car with a Powertec blueprinted '07 spec motor.
Incidentally, since you like R1s and MNRs, here's mine:
These are just my opinions, but I, like Jon and Lee have been around these cars for a long time and have been through the same decision process as you more than once, so I hope I've helped.
Cheers
TC
Edited by Tim.C on Sunday 19th October 18:58
All good sound advice, I suppose it's down to personal preference. Having built an '03 R1 engined car, I think they are excellent value.
Don't dimiss the new ZX10 motor, but you'll need a Freelander or a Sierra 3.14 diff.
What engine would I build with next ? There's only one and that's the 'busa. Especially with a Garrett GT35 strapped to the side.
Don't dimiss the new ZX10 motor, but you'll need a Freelander or a Sierra 3.14 diff.
What engine would I build with next ? There's only one and that's the 'busa. Especially with a Garrett GT35 strapped to the side.
Tim.C
few questions.
- as your is "+" what are the differences between it and "non +" ?
- im gessing they are still road legal but they arent show with head lights.
- are they lighter?
- how do they stand up against other 7 type cars
- how hard was it to do DIY ? could a electrition do it ? (i have no power in my garage)
few questions.
- as your is "+" what are the differences between it and "non +" ?
- im gessing they are still road legal but they arent show with head lights.
- are they lighter?
- how do they stand up against other 7 type cars
- how hard was it to do DIY ? could a electrition do it ? (i have no power in my garage)
Hi Matt
There are 5 models of MNR Vortx
The Vortx Mazda is effectively a single donor vehicle utilising the Mazda MX-5 as its base.
The RT is the basic Sierra donor car with outboard front shocks and polybushed suspension.
The RT Inboard adds inboard rocker-type suspension, again with polybushes
The RT+ is as above but with rod-ends rather than polybushes allowing increased adjustability of set-up.
The Super Spec is as above with a chassis made entirely from T45 steel rather than a mixture of T45 (roll bar) and CDS round tube.
To be honest, I don't think there's a huge weight saving to be made from going for the Super Spec, maybe 20kgs or something.
Any of the cars can be road-registered. I have chosen not to because these cars have a tendency to endanger my license, plus I do not wish to compromise track set-up.
My chassis is something of a development chassis, so I've encountered more teething problems than most. The current chassis seems to have addressed all of these issues as MNR have acted on customer feedback.
As to how it compares to other Seven-a-likes, I'll have to let you know as mine is yet to venture on track. My expectation is very high however, I'm hoping that it will perform considerably better than the MK and Mac#1 that I have previously owned (MK) and driven on track.
As to whether or not you can build it, if you are a semi-capable house DIYer, you should be fine. In my experience, the toughest question that you need to answer is 'do you have time to build it?' In hindsight, I haven't really had time and probably wouldn't attempt another build. You will need to get power to the car for drilling the chassis, and possibly trimming some of the bodywork.
There are 5 models of MNR Vortx
The Vortx Mazda is effectively a single donor vehicle utilising the Mazda MX-5 as its base.
The RT is the basic Sierra donor car with outboard front shocks and polybushed suspension.
The RT Inboard adds inboard rocker-type suspension, again with polybushes
The RT+ is as above but with rod-ends rather than polybushes allowing increased adjustability of set-up.
The Super Spec is as above with a chassis made entirely from T45 steel rather than a mixture of T45 (roll bar) and CDS round tube.
To be honest, I don't think there's a huge weight saving to be made from going for the Super Spec, maybe 20kgs or something.
Any of the cars can be road-registered. I have chosen not to because these cars have a tendency to endanger my license, plus I do not wish to compromise track set-up.
My chassis is something of a development chassis, so I've encountered more teething problems than most. The current chassis seems to have addressed all of these issues as MNR have acted on customer feedback.
As to how it compares to other Seven-a-likes, I'll have to let you know as mine is yet to venture on track. My expectation is very high however, I'm hoping that it will perform considerably better than the MK and Mac#1 that I have previously owned (MK) and driven on track.
As to whether or not you can build it, if you are a semi-capable house DIYer, you should be fine. In my experience, the toughest question that you need to answer is 'do you have time to build it?' In hindsight, I haven't really had time and probably wouldn't attempt another build. You will need to get power to the car for drilling the chassis, and possibly trimming some of the bodywork.
Edited by Tim.C on Tuesday 21st October 20:39
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff