Towing with an 'A' Frame??
Discussion
Hi guys
I'm looking for ways of towing my beloved Atom behind my Zafira! No one on the Atom forum has used one of the 'A' frame towing jigs hence my post here!
I've spoken with the manufacturer of these frames and they say there's no reason why it won't work - I guess they would say that, but are they right?
Four questions:
1. Anyone used one of these frames with their Caterham?
2. Do they work?
3. Will they damage/mark at the attachment point?
4. Will it be legal?
Here's a pic of what I'm on about.
Cheers
John
I'm looking for ways of towing my beloved Atom behind my Zafira! No one on the Atom forum has used one of the 'A' frame towing jigs hence my post here!
I've spoken with the manufacturer of these frames and they say there's no reason why it won't work - I guess they would say that, but are they right?
Four questions:
1. Anyone used one of these frames with their Caterham?
2. Do they work?
3. Will they damage/mark at the attachment point?
4. Will it be legal?
Here's a pic of what I'm on about.
Cheers
John
I would seriously consider buying a small two wheel trailer. "A" frames are illegal for other than recovery. Same goes for the usual towing dollies. Yes, I know you see loads of people using them for towing cars to race meetings etc. but that doesn't make it legal.
And I'm sure "A" frames must leave marks or scratches.
Then consider the outcome of a full-on emergency stop from 60mph!!!
I bought a trailer for £400 of fleabay with built in lights and good strong ramps. I could get my money back on it, no problem.
The Phoenix can sit on it in the garage, so no unsurmountable storage hassles.
Try posting your enquiry in the Speed, Plod forum. Or just search the topic. It's been well covered before.
Geoff.
And I'm sure "A" frames must leave marks or scratches.
Then consider the outcome of a full-on emergency stop from 60mph!!!
I bought a trailer for £400 of fleabay with built in lights and good strong ramps. I could get my money back on it, no problem.
The Phoenix can sit on it in the garage, so no unsurmountable storage hassles.
Try posting your enquiry in the Speed, Plod forum. Or just search the topic. It's been well covered before.
Geoff.
Essentially, without getting into complicated intertia activated braking modules that fit into the car, you'll only be legal if the weight of the car (which is effectively a trailer) you're towing is less than 750KG (which it probably is with an Atom, although I don't know for sure).
To paraphrase the legislation, you're allowed to tow an unbraked trailer up of to 750 KG with most cars, assuming your handbook gives a limit of this high (It should for a Zafira). There are exceptions, but you need a much heavier towing vehicle, so don't worry about them.
You should probably have a 'tailboard though, which has the towcar's number plate on it, plus the ncessary lights.
To paraphrase the legislation, you're allowed to tow an unbraked trailer up of to 750 KG with most cars, assuming your handbook gives a limit of this high (It should for a Zafira). There are exceptions, but you need a much heavier towing vehicle, so don't worry about them.
You should probably have a 'tailboard though, which has the towcar's number plate on it, plus the ncessary lights.
cptsideways said:
I'd suggest a towing attachment on the front of of the chassis, you see quite a few campers twoing small cars like this. So similar to an A fram just a permanent fixture eg two small eyes.
It'll be sub 750kg so perfectly legal too.
Apart from the small issue of it not actually steering the towed vehicle.....It'll be sub 750kg so perfectly legal too.
normalbloke said:
cptsideways said:
I'd suggest a towing attachment on the front of of the chassis, you see quite a few campers twoing small cars like this. So similar to an A fram just a permanent fixture eg two small eyes.
It'll be sub 750kg so perfectly legal too.
Apart from the small issue of it not actually steering the towed vehicle.....It'll be sub 750kg so perfectly legal too.
Some types of transmission don't like being towed long distance or at high speed, because the gearbox lubrication comes from a pump on the input shaft. With the engine stopped there's no lubrication and the gearbox can suffer.
A frames are quite crude things that are usually attached with chains wrapped around the suspension. They will definitely mark it unless you protect it. (I've got a couple of pieces of vinyl floor covering cable tied in place for the odd occasion I need to use mine.
With a caterham I don't suppose there's any problem with the A frame fouling the front bodywork, but if they're close you'd need to protect it. (Luckily the front on mine is protected by the splitter, which is not at all precious.) If the front of the car is unusually low you might need to get extended pins for the A frame so it clears the bodywork.
If the maximum permitted weight (not the kerbside weight) is over 750 Kgs you will need to have a braking system. You can get braked A frames but they cost a lot more.
A frames are quite crude things that are usually attached with chains wrapped around the suspension. They will definitely mark it unless you protect it. (I've got a couple of pieces of vinyl floor covering cable tied in place for the odd occasion I need to use mine.
With a caterham I don't suppose there's any problem with the A frame fouling the front bodywork, but if they're close you'd need to protect it. (Luckily the front on mine is protected by the splitter, which is not at all precious.) If the front of the car is unusually low you might need to get extended pins for the A frame so it clears the bodywork.
If the maximum permitted weight (not the kerbside weight) is over 750 Kgs you will need to have a braking system. You can get braked A frames but they cost a lot more.
Thanks for all the replies guys, makes interesting reading.
Yes, I'd prefer a trailer but, I don't have any room to park it up so it's a non=started for me. The other reason for considering the 'A' frame is convenience. It's small, light and can be stashed away in the boot of most cars.
Of course I'd want it to be safe & legal and some have raised the issue of safety BUT, have any heard of horror stories or is it just that you 'feel' their a little unsafe? Personally, I've never heard of any horror stories. No doubt there'll be the odd few but that goes for trailers too.
Lubrication of the gearbox is a good point to raise. When I was considering an 'A' frame a few years back, I did ask the factory about this and they said it wouldn't be a problem. So if I knew I could attach one without marking the suspension/steering/bodywork, at under £200 I might try.
I'll keep you posted.
John
Yes, I'd prefer a trailer but, I don't have any room to park it up so it's a non=started for me. The other reason for considering the 'A' frame is convenience. It's small, light and can be stashed away in the boot of most cars.
Of course I'd want it to be safe & legal and some have raised the issue of safety BUT, have any heard of horror stories or is it just that you 'feel' their a little unsafe? Personally, I've never heard of any horror stories. No doubt there'll be the odd few but that goes for trailers too.
Lubrication of the gearbox is a good point to raise. When I was considering an 'A' frame a few years back, I did ask the factory about this and they said it wouldn't be a problem. So if I knew I could attach one without marking the suspension/steering/bodywork, at under £200 I might try.
I'll keep you posted.
John
ive towed all over the country with one for years and 100% problem free but they are only legal for recovery unless you car has a plated weight of sub 750kg which Ive never come across a car that does, my old bike engined westfield for eg. weighed on the scales at 480kg but had a plated weight of 900kg. so if plod knows his onions technically you are feckd. would I still use one yes .
atomfun said:
Hi Jef, thanks for the reply from someone that's done it 
Can you tell me how the 'A' frame attaches to the car? As I've said, I'm concerned about marking the powder coating at the attachment point. What is the attachment point?
Cheers
John
its not nice! 2 big chains around your bottom arms pulled tight by a ratchet strap !!!Can you tell me how the 'A' frame attaches to the car? As I've said, I'm concerned about marking the powder coating at the attachment point. What is the attachment point?
Cheers
John
JeffC said:
my old bike engined westfield for eg. weighed on the scales at 480kg but had a plated weight of 900kg
I've been looking into this, but I never knew the above. Better go and check my "plated" weights, but I didn't think either my Westfield or my Caterham had such a high "plated" weight.Any idea why the "plated" weights would not reflect the weight of the car ? Would that not affect the MOT brake test ? They don't weigh my cars (the bikes yes, but not the cars), I thought they used the "plated" weight.
Incidentally, I have a single axle trailer that has a "plated" weight of 330kg, so I had assumed that I could use it for cars weighing less than 670kg. Does the "plated" weight come into it when you use a trailer ? Or is the real all up weight that counts ? Short of taking it to a weighing station, I imagine plod, if they stopped you, would go by the "plated" weights of both the car and the trailer ? That just doesn't sound good if this is the case
Why do you want to tow it?
That is the first question to actually ask
If it is for trackdays then an A frame is frankly useless as if you go off and bend the car so it is undrivable then an A frame is useless, if it is to save on trackday rubber then an A frame is useless as you still need road legal tyres at the end of the day. The only time an A frame will come into its own is if the engine goes pop but in that senario a friendly tow to the end of the road and an AA card will do the same job.
If it is to save on the milage then just disconnect the speedo
If it is to save yourself from getting cold and wet then man up and buy a decent jacket and enjoy the giggles getting your atom from A to B
If you have somewhere to keep an atom then you have somewhere to keep a trailer as you put your trailer under the atom you can even get a brian james with a removeable towhitch. Also look at trailer hire as it isn't that expensive
That is the first question to actually ask
If it is for trackdays then an A frame is frankly useless as if you go off and bend the car so it is undrivable then an A frame is useless, if it is to save on trackday rubber then an A frame is useless as you still need road legal tyres at the end of the day. The only time an A frame will come into its own is if the engine goes pop but in that senario a friendly tow to the end of the road and an AA card will do the same job.
If it is to save on the milage then just disconnect the speedo
If it is to save yourself from getting cold and wet then man up and buy a decent jacket and enjoy the giggles getting your atom from A to B
If you have somewhere to keep an atom then you have somewhere to keep a trailer as you put your trailer under the atom you can even get a brian james with a removeable towhitch. Also look at trailer hire as it isn't that expensive
As a trailer suitable for an Atom is considerably wider than the Atom itself, I definately don't have room for a trailer.
I don't do many track days now, maybe the odd one at Llandow and that's just 30 mins away.
The Atom is my ONLY car and has been for the last year, I drive it EVERYDAY and in all weathers so getting cold or wet isn't the issue - I have heated clothing but rarely need it.
The reason for considering an 'A' frame is quite simple. We often go away and the Atom isn't really practicle for a family & luggage An 'A' frame would be very convenient if I wanted to tow part or all/way and use the Atom when I get there. The 'A' frame just folds up and can be stored in the car when not in use. It's just for convenience with little expense and just exploring the viability.
John
I don't do many track days now, maybe the odd one at Llandow and that's just 30 mins away.
The Atom is my ONLY car and has been for the last year, I drive it EVERYDAY and in all weathers so getting cold or wet isn't the issue - I have heated clothing but rarely need it.
The reason for considering an 'A' frame is quite simple. We often go away and the Atom isn't really practicle for a family & luggage
An 'A' frame would be very convenient if I wanted to tow part or all/way and use the Atom when I get there. The 'A' frame just folds up and can be stored in the car when not in use. It's just for convenience with little expense and just exploring the viability.John
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