Monday 28th September 2009

Porsche Wants Out Of Magna Contract

Opel purchase may cost Magna a deal to build Boxster and Cayman - but it could be Karmann's lifeline

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Boxster could move from Magna to Karmann

Porsche is looking to pull out of a contract with Magna to build the next-generation Boxster and Cayman in the wake of the Canadian firm's purchase of Opel from General Motors.

The Boxster and Cayman had been earmarked for production at Magna's Austrian plant in Graz from 2013, but VW's takeover of Porsche and Magna's control over Opel now means plenty of potential for conflicts of interest - and VW understandably wants to keep Porsche production and development costs secret.

Volkswagen boss Martin Winterkorn has also hinted that a Magna-controlled Opel could force VW to end its partnerships with Magna.

Karmann could also make VW's new roadster

Although the loss of Porsche contracts would be a major blow to Magna's finances, it could mean a lifeline for historic coachbuilder Karmann, which could get the nod to build the new Cayman and Boxster.

Porsche currently builds its entry-level pairing at its own Zuffenhausen facility, but some Boxster production has occasionally been outsourced to Valmet in Finland.

If Karmann does win the Boxster contract, it could literally save the Osnabruck firm, which recently filed for bankruptcy protection. VW also has close historical ties with Karmann too, and it's a strong possibility that the forthcoming VW BlueSport roadster could be built by them, too.

[Staffy1984]

Doubt this will overly affect Magna in the long run, makes sense to sever the ties with a rival, and Karmann did a great job with the old clippers.
Let the VAG drama continue

[daimo_45]

My god that Roadster thing is GASH! The guy's drab expression really adds to the pic too.

[bertie]

Karman used to build the Audi A4 Cabriolet and CLK convertible, but both Audi and Mercedes have taken them back in house with the new CLK and A5, hence knackering Karman.

[J B L]

daimo_45 said:

My god that Roadster thing is GASH! The guy's drab expression really adds to the pic too.

Really! I find it very nice looking. Each to their own and I am sure that bloke doesn't come with it!

[Staffy1984]

daimo_45 said:

My god that Roadster thing is GASH! The guy's drab expression really adds to the pic too.

His face does have a 'Is yet this another car based on the Golf' look on it.

+ It'll have a really boring engine in it, that sways too far in the direction of economy, and will probably weigh 2-300kgs more than it should.

When will VW make a golf that is as exciting as the Mark 1s and 2s, well the answer is probably never again.

[AndrewW-G]

Could somebody from the government please phone up Porsche and tell them to buy Vauxhalls Ellesmere Port and build the cars in the UK?

[kambites]

daimo_45 said:

My god that Roadster thing is GASH! The guy's drab expression really adds to the pic too.

Interesting. I looked at the pictures and thought that the VW's styling emphasised how ugly the Boxster is. Of course the VW is a prototype though, so that's not really fair on the Porsche.

[Eviltad]

AndrewW-G said:

Could somebody from the government please phone up Porsche and tell them to buy Vauxhalls Ellesmere Port and build the cars in the UK?

That would make the car scheme more interesting.

[AndrewW-G]

Eviltad said:

AndrewW-G said:

Could somebody from the government please phone up Porsche and tell them to buy Vauxhalls Ellesmere Port and build the cars in the UK?

That would make the car scheme more interesting.

If magna are going to shut it down, it would make sense for Porsche to use the capacity of one of GM's most cost efficient and productive plants

[Mr Gear]

J B L said:

daimo_45 said:

My god that Roadster thing is GASH! The guy's drab expression really adds to the pic too.

Really! I find it very nice looking. Each to their own and I am sure that bloke doesn't come with it!

It looks OK, but how pointless is it? It looks so much like a Mk1 TT they might as well not have bothered to do anything apart from slap VW badges on at the end of the old TT production line.

[mark3man]

AndrewW-G said:

Eviltad said:

AndrewW-G said:

Could somebody from the government please phone up Porsche and tell them to buy Vauxhalls Ellesmere Port and build the cars in the UK?

That would make the car scheme more interesting.

If magna are going to shut it down, it would make sense for Porsche to use the capacity of one of GM's most cost efficient and productive plants

Nice thought to have the Valmet of England up there but I suspect it may be about experience with hood mechanisms that will have Karmann on the phone to Mrs Merkel asking for some 'direction' to be given to VW.
Also, Ellesmere is a big volume plant and all these cars are small volume - which is why they get farmed out.
However, there is such a thing as 're-training' and once it's been properly designed, the assembly of each one is repetitive.

[ptopman]

Mr Gear said:

J B L said:

daimo_45 said:

My god that Roadster thing is GASH! The guy's drab expression really adds to the pic too.

Really! I find it very nice looking. Each to their own and I am sure that bloke doesn't come with it!

It looks OK, but how pointless is it? It looks so much like a Mk1 TT they might as well not have bothered to do anything apart from slap VW badges on at the end of the old TT production line.

How pointless is it to comment when you're clueless?

VW showed off a functioning mid-engine, RWD roadster - which is expected to go into production - to me that's not a TT rehash and it certainly isn't another Golf derivative.

Its design isn't very exciting, but I don't see which competitor looks any better, Boxster included.

[Gedon]

Staffy1984 said:

daimo_45 said:

My god that Roadster thing is GASH! The guy's drab expression really adds to the pic too.

His face does have a 'Is yet this another car based on the Golf' look on it.

+ It'll have a really boring engine in it, that sways too far in the direction of economy, and will probably weigh 2-300kgs more than it should.

When will VW make a golf that is as exciting as the Mark 1s and 2s, well the answer is probably never again.

I agree. They've lost it and produce nothing of excitement and spirit anymore. They don't even sell you the promise of upward mobility. They are just droll. Porsche sell a few good cars, but again, a lot of them have VW disease....droll safe st for which magazine readers.

Very tedious cars, all of them. Plenty in the school carparks, safe, mundane, which? approved, boring, tedious.... can I just thrash an old fiesta please?

That Karmann thing is an abortion. Awful things....I suppose it will give the "new beetle" brigade something to covet....

[seanmaccann]

the VW is no warmed over TT - it's mid engined and RWD, designed to take on the MX5, and reportedly drives well.

[Mr Gear]

ptopman said:

Mr Gear said:

J B L said:

daimo_45 said:

My god that Roadster thing is GASH! The guy's drab expression really adds to the pic too.

Really! I find it very nice looking. Each to their own and I am sure that bloke doesn't come with it!

It looks OK, but how pointless is it? It looks so much like a Mk1 TT they might as well not have bothered to do anything apart from slap VW badges on at the end of the old TT production line.

How pointless is it to comment when you're clueless?

VW showed off a functioning mid-engine, RWD roadster - which is expected to go into production - to me that's not a TT rehash and it certainly isn't another Golf derivative.

Its design isn't very exciting, but I don't see which competitor looks any better, Boxster included.

I dunno, you tell me?

I know perfectly well that it's mid-engined, but my comment was about the way it looked, and it DOES look like someone traced a TT.

[ptopman]

Mr Gear said:

I dunno, you tell me?

I know perfectly well that it's mid-engined, but my comment was about the way it looked, and it DOES look like someone traced a TT.

You already know what it is and if you still think this is no better than a minor facelift on the old TT, frankly, you're wasting your time here. You know like when you could get your eyes checked.

[son of clarkson]

Gedon said:

Staffy1984 said:

daimo_45 said:

My god that Roadster thing is GASH! The guy's drab expression really adds to the pic too.

His face does have a 'Is yet this another car based on the Golf' look on it.

+ It'll have a really boring engine in it, that sways too far in the direction of economy, and will probably weigh 2-300kgs more than it should.

When will VW make a golf that is as exciting as the Mark 1s and 2s, well the answer is probably never again.

I agree. They've lost it and produce nothing of excitement and spirit anymore. They don't even sell you the promise of upward mobility. They are just droll. Porsche sell a few good cars, but again, a lot of them have VW disease....droll safe st for which magazine readers.

Very tedious cars, all of them. Plenty in the school carparks, safe, mundane, which? approved, boring, tedious.... can I just thrash an old fiesta please?

That Karmann thing is an abortion. Awful things....I suppose it will give the "new beetle" brigade something to covet....

All to true, if you feel the need to buy a VW or Audi DON'T. Just pop round the corner and get either a Seat or Skoda there the same bldy cars with different badges and a damn site cheaper.

Unless your going for a RS4/6(3?), step away from the mundane and buy something else build quality is the last cp excuse for German cars thee days.

[LuS1fer]

It's becoming harder and harder to tell the difference between audis and VWS and they risk undermining their premier brand by trying to make VW a sub-premier brand.

Weird. All those brands to try to cover every echelon of the market and still none I actually want to buy.

[Carfiend]

seanmaccann said:

designed to take on the MX5

A new Challenger appears.

Round 1

Fight!

[Mr Gear]

ptopman said:

Mr Gear said:

I dunno, you tell me?

I know perfectly well that it's mid-engined, but my comment was about the way it looked, and it DOES look like someone traced a TT.

You already know what it is and if you still think this is no better than a minor facelift on the old TT, frankly, you're wasting your time here. You know like when you could get your eyes checked.

Well aren't you a hero? Ignoring the point I'm making and instead concentrating on being an asshat. Happy Christmas. ps off.