RE: Speed Cameras Come Down After Accidents Go Up
Friday 23rd July 2010
Speed cameras do not 'have a major impact on road safety', say Derby authorities. As a result, the city is removing three of its 20 fixed speed cameras, while the other 17 are under review.
Speed Cameras Come Down After Accidents Go Up
'Scameras' axed in Derby - but is it to save lives or save money?
Warning signs displaying drivers' speeds are likely to replace the three axed cameras.
"Since the installation of the camera on Burton Road, for example, you look at the accident statistics and the number of incidents have gone up, so we need to look at alternative ways of dealing with speed on that road," Councillor Chris Poulter told the BBC.
"There is a lot of information over the last few years about speeds on these roads and the indication is (speed cameras) are not working as intended."
Call us cynical, but you can't help wondering if the decision to lay off the speed cameras has more to do with the fact that central government has cut funding for road safety by £21m to £56m, and last month switched off funding for any new cameras...
That's not the official line, of course. "Speed cameras are just one of the tools which we use to make Derbyshire's roads safer," says Derby and Derbyshire Road Safety Partnership. And one that might just be used less frequently in the future...
Discussion
I honestly don't care what cause they use to justify the removal of speed cameras, so long as it actually happens. It's bee well-known for a long time that the cameras have little or no effect on road safety or accident numbers, and have just been a tool for raising revenue.
How many people does your average speed camera have to catch in order for it to pay for its own installment and maintenance?
How many people does your average speed camera have to catch in order for it to pay for its own installment and maintenance?
The councillor has said: "Since the installation of the camera on Burton Road, for example, you look at the accident statistics and the number of incidents have gone up, so we need to look at alternative ways of dealing with speed on that road"
Souldn't it be: Since the installation of the camera on Burton Road, for example, you look at the accident statistics and the number of incidents have gone up, so we need to look at alternative ways of dealing with accidents on that road"
?
Blindly fingering speed as the culprit for all accidents isn't the way now, is it? That'll just blinker progress!
Souldn't it be: Since the installation of the camera on Burton Road, for example, you look at the accident statistics and the number of incidents have gone up, so we need to look at alternative ways of dealing with accidents on that road"
?
Blindly fingering speed as the culprit for all accidents isn't the way now, is it? That'll just blinker progress!
silverMX said:
The councillor has said: "Since the installation of the camera on Burton Road, for example, you look at the accident statistics and the number of incidents have gone up, so we need to look at alternative ways of dealing with speed on that road"
Souldn't it be: Since the installation of the camera on Burton Road, for example, you look at the accident statistics and the number of incidents have gone up, so we need to look at alternative ways of dealing with accidents on that road"
?
Blindly fingering speed as the culprit for all accidents isn't the way now, is it? That'll just blinker progress!
Spot on silver - we have continued to be told that speed is the main factor in accidents - IT IS NOT - certainly it is only one of many many factors. Speed scameras DO NOT WORK Souldn't it be: Since the installation of the camera on Burton Road, for example, you look at the accident statistics and the number of incidents have gone up, so we need to look at alternative ways of dealing with accidents on that road"
?
Blindly fingering speed as the culprit for all accidents isn't the way now, is it? That'll just blinker progress!
This is solely to do with politics.
The councils have to pay for the scameras and they don't get any revenue from them. If they aren't as effective as any other measure at reducing accidents they might as well spend the road safety budget on anything else at all that might help reduce prangs.
The country has run out of money to piss away on anything that isn't 100% a cast-iron guaranteed good thing. So the scamera budget is being cut as now the s
t has hit the fan fiscally the statistics don't support them.
Add to that Central Government want a popular policy - getting rid of ineffective scameras is certainly that.
The only people who will bh are the Scamera Partnerships themselves as they will be making staff redundant. Lots of staff will lose their jobs.
A few deluded fools may complain a bit but the rest of us will just get back to trying to drive carefully.
But be under no illusion: these things could come back if the political will ever changes. It's not about what we want.
The councils have to pay for the scameras and they don't get any revenue from them. If they aren't as effective as any other measure at reducing accidents they might as well spend the road safety budget on anything else at all that might help reduce prangs.
The country has run out of money to piss away on anything that isn't 100% a cast-iron guaranteed good thing. So the scamera budget is being cut as now the s
t has hit the fan fiscally the statistics don't support them.Add to that Central Government want a popular policy - getting rid of ineffective scameras is certainly that.
The only people who will b
h are the Scamera Partnerships themselves as they will be making staff redundant. Lots of staff will lose their jobs.A few deluded fools may complain a bit but the rest of us will just get back to trying to drive carefully.
But be under no illusion: these things could come back if the political will ever changes. It's not about what we want.
silverMX said:
Souldn't it be: Since the installation of the camera on Burton Road, for example, you look at the accident statistics and the number of incidents have gone up, so we need to look at alternative ways of dealing with accidents on that road"
Spot bob on Silver! Also, Swindon decommissioned Scameras a while back and there are no plans to recommission them! People should be encouraged and taught to watch the road, not their speedometer! 
Edited for typo
Edited by McAndy on Friday 23 July 10:25
silverMX said:
Blindly fingering speed as the culprit for all accidents isn't the way now, is it? That'll just blinker progress!
Speed doesn't kill. What does is the idiot behind the wheel...Good to see someone making a step in the 'right' direction though. The cameras around our way are nasty little buggers- positioned very cleverly on hills so it's very difficult to keep in line unless you're really watching your speedo... not the zebra crossings near them, or the traffic lights, or pedestrians, or other road users...
Get rid of these nasty boxes once and for all. I'm fed up of feeling like I am going to do something wrong for a split second (33 in a 30) rather than feeling more relaxed allowing me to concentrate on the actual standard of driving.
Stop treating us like mindless morons that need to be watched all the time and let us all use a bit of common sense - 99% of drivers obey the rules yet so many of us are punished.
If the road is that unsafe put speed bumps on them or put up bigger warning signs.
Most people that get caught don't realise until the dreaded letter comes through by which according to these numptys the speed could have killed someone days ago; unfortunately a letter 7-14 days after the event will NEVER stop the 'potential accident' that happened a few days before. A police officer pulling someone over for dangerous driving on the other hand WILL stop accidents.
Remove this dictatorship & profit style system.
Stop treating us like mindless morons that need to be watched all the time and let us all use a bit of common sense - 99% of drivers obey the rules yet so many of us are punished.
If the road is that unsafe put speed bumps on them or put up bigger warning signs.
Most people that get caught don't realise until the dreaded letter comes through by which according to these numptys the speed could have killed someone days ago; unfortunately a letter 7-14 days after the event will NEVER stop the 'potential accident' that happened a few days before. A police officer pulling someone over for dangerous driving on the other hand WILL stop accidents.
Remove this dictatorship & profit style system.
Fixed cameras will all now disappear, no doubt about it and about time!
Here in Oxfordshire we have been slow to follow the correct lead taken by Swindon, where they shut down (covered) theirs a year ago.
Swindon accident rates one year on have remained the same, proving beyond all doubt scameras were just a money box.
Oxfordshire has now gone further and has now become the largest camera-free zone in the
country (
3 CHEERS!!!!
) after county council leaders voted to slash funding for road safety schemes by 71 per cent.
Camera operators
said the cuts are so drastic that ALL the fixed cameras would be shut down immediately. Redundancy notices are in the post chaps!
This will begin the domino effect initiated by the government cuts. Hope the Charity(sic) BRAKE are having a nice day.
Somerset County Council is removing a third of its cameras and Devon and Cornwall police have warned 35 civilian camera staff that their jobs are at risk - more redundancies in the post so should keep the Post Office busy!
Oxfordshire councillors told the Thames Valley Road Safety Partnership it would have to do its work this year with £600,000 less.
Dan Campsall, spokesman for the Thames Valley partnership, which controls 161 cameras in the county, said: 'The cut in funding is so drastic, full and immediate withdrawal of services is the only option.'
But the sucker line comes from Thames Valley Police Assistant Chief Constable John Campbell - he spoke of fears that the decision
'...may impact on the number of serious collisions in the county'.
He would say that, wouldn't he, but he will be proved wrong, that's why he added the the operative word at the start of his sentence... the decision 'may'...
Said it before, but I'll repeat it.
In years to come people will look back and say: 'what dicks implemented such ludicrous schemes to collect money and obstructed traffic by implementing the construction of road hazards everywhere ie: humps bumps and chicances and poles with cameras on. Were they all mad?'
...YES!
Here in Oxfordshire we have been slow to follow the correct lead taken by Swindon, where they shut down (covered) theirs a year ago.
Swindon accident rates one year on have remained the same, proving beyond all doubt scameras were just a money box.
Oxfordshire has now gone further and has now become the largest camera-free zone in the
country (
3 CHEERS!!!!) after county council leaders voted to slash funding for road safety schemes by 71 per cent.Camera operators
said the cuts are so drastic that ALL the fixed cameras would be shut down immediately. Redundancy notices are in the post chaps!This will begin the domino effect initiated by the government cuts. Hope the Charity(sic) BRAKE are having a nice day.
Somerset County Council is removing a third of its cameras and Devon and Cornwall police have warned 35 civilian camera staff that their jobs are at risk - more redundancies in the post so should keep the Post Office busy!
Oxfordshire councillors told the Thames Valley Road Safety Partnership it would have to do its work this year with £600,000 less.
Dan Campsall, spokesman for the Thames Valley partnership, which controls 161 cameras in the county, said: 'The cut in funding is so drastic, full and immediate withdrawal of services is the only option.'
But the sucker line comes from Thames Valley Police Assistant Chief Constable John Campbell - he spoke of fears that the decision
'...may impact on the number of serious collisions in the county'.
He would say that, wouldn't he, but he will be proved wrong, that's why he added the the operative word at the start of his sentence... the decision 'may'...
Said it before, but I'll repeat it.
In years to come people will look back and say: 'what dicks implemented such ludicrous schemes to collect money and obstructed traffic by implementing the construction of road hazards everywhere ie: humps bumps and chicances and poles with cameras on. Were they all mad?'
...YES!
Edited by dandarez on Friday 23 July 11:29
Cheeky Jim said:
Very good point Silver... very telling that Speed is automatically the culprit.
But it must be speed, you are infinitely more likely to hit someone if you are traveling at any speed greater than zero.Seriously though, I noticed that he blames speed too... It wouldn't have been quite as bad if he said excesive speed.
The root cause is never really speed, it's the squidgy thing between people's ears and the lack of use thereof.
Cheering a bit at the demise of some speed camera sites but a bit torn. I think the arguments that "speed cameras work" and "speed cameras don't work" are both incorrect. IMO the answer is that speed cameras work in some situations and not in others. It's the way that they are deployed & used that determines their effectiveness.
For example, a 20 mph speed limit outside a school with camera enforcement is likely to be effective. Note: the argument that you're more likely to hit someone whilst staring at the speedo starts to lose it's effectiveness at such low speeds.
However, where a stretch of road easily & safely capable of sustaining 60mph traffic has an arbitrary lower limit imposed upon it with camera enforcement, things look less effective. Firstly, it's not making anyone any safer and secondly it's 'proving' to the motorist (i.e. the voting public) that cameras only exist as a revenue generator.
Although I'm a 'car guy' and am known to have a heavy right foot, I don't want to see the complete death of speed cameras. I simply want them to be used well, in the right places, for the right reasons, and sparingly.
For example, a 20 mph speed limit outside a school with camera enforcement is likely to be effective. Note: the argument that you're more likely to hit someone whilst staring at the speedo starts to lose it's effectiveness at such low speeds.
However, where a stretch of road easily & safely capable of sustaining 60mph traffic has an arbitrary lower limit imposed upon it with camera enforcement, things look less effective. Firstly, it's not making anyone any safer and secondly it's 'proving' to the motorist (i.e. the voting public) that cameras only exist as a revenue generator.
Although I'm a 'car guy' and am known to have a heavy right foot, I don't want to see the complete death of speed cameras. I simply want them to be used well, in the right places, for the right reasons, and sparingly.
silverMX said:
The councillor has said: "Since the installation of the camera on Burton Road, for example, you look at the accident statistics and the number of incidents have gone up, so we need to look at alternative ways of dealing with speed on that road"
Souldn't it be: Since the installation of the camera on Burton Road, for example, you look at the accident statistics and the number of incidents have gone up, so we need to look at alternative ways of dealing with accidents on that road"
?
Blindly fingering speed as the culprit for all accidents isn't the way now, is it? That'll just blinker progress!
Absolutely agree.Souldn't it be: Since the installation of the camera on Burton Road, for example, you look at the accident statistics and the number of incidents have gone up, so we need to look at alternative ways of dealing with accidents on that road"
?
Blindly fingering speed as the culprit for all accidents isn't the way now, is it? That'll just blinker progress!
This issue was highlighted in the 'why do people keep crashing' thread. It enrages me that the ONLY aspect of road safety which is ever given the time of day is "Speed". And I believe this really is to the detriment of focus on other aspects of driving (like attentiveness) which are FAR more pertinent to the number of accidents. However, these other aspects are harder to target and far less likley to generate cash.
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