Benefits Crackdown

[OutInTheShed]

blueg33 said:

What worries me about these policies is that in my experience government and civil service don’t really know how their own system works and what the benefits mean to the recipients.

Consequently, the policies rarely work and can’t be properly implemented without collateral damage and unintended consequences.

We should give lots of government and civil service people first hand experience of being unemployed.

[blueg33]

OutInTheShed said:

blueg33 said:

What worries me about these policies is that in my experience government and civil service don’t really know how their own system works and what the benefits mean to the recipients.

Consequently, the policies rarely work and can’t be properly implemented without collateral damage and unintended consequences.

We should give lots of government and civil service people first hand experience of being unemployed.

I had to explain to the Secretary of State for work and pensions how housing benefit worked for vulnerable people who can’t live independently. He had zero clue and was proposing through universal credit to reduce housing benefit for them by over 75%

[konark]

blueg33 said:

What worries me about these policies is that in my experience government and civil service don’t really know how their own system works and what the benefits mean to the recipients.

Consequently, the policies rarely work and can’t be properly implemented without collateral damage and unintended consequences.

In the 1980s a leading Tory politician, Mathew Parrish I think , tried to live on dole money for a month for a TV show.
He failed miserably.

[HD Adam]

We all know this absolutely isn't going to work.

The ultimate sanction is withdrawing all benefits.

Example.

Wayne, Waynetta & their 5 little offspring live in a council house.
Neither Wayne or Waynetta works. One of the sprogs has ADHD so they get their rent paid, full benefits & a carers allowance for looking after their own child.
Wayne could work but doesn't want to. Waynetta has a bit of a bad back/Long Covid/Depression/Is Fat/Whatever & gets a Motability Car.
75" TV, Sky Subscription, Latest iPhones, Designer gear, lots of tattoos, holidays at Disney.

Obviously milking the system.

Grrr.

So after 6 months of Wayne not finding a job what happens?

Are they cut off without a penny? All turfed out onto the street?

I think we all know the answer.

[Randy Winkman]

HD Adam said:

We all know this absolutely isn't going to work.

The ultimate sanction is withdrawing all benefits.

Example.

Wayne, Waynetta & their 5 little offspring live in a council house.
Neither Wayne or Waynetta works. One of the sprogs has ADHD so they get their rent paid, full benefits & a carers allowance for looking after their own child.
Wayne could work but doesn't want to. Waynetta has a bit of a bad back/Long Covid/Depression/Is Fat/Whatever & gets a Motability Car.
75" TV, Sky Subscription, Latest iPhones, Designer gear, lots of tattoos, holidays at Disney.

Obviously milking the system.

Grrr.

So after 6 months of Wayne not finding a job what happens?

Are they cut off without a penny? All turfed out onto the street?

I think we all know the answer.

We do. The answer is "no" on the basis that the kids would then have health and education problems, never get jobs and become criminals. An exaggeration, but that that's the thinking.

[blueg33]

Back in 2008 I was made redundant. My income protection insurance required me to sign on. I got £80 per week to feed a family of 4.

If I was to sign in today 15 years later I would get around £83 per week.

In real terms benefits have already been cut massively.

[steveo3002]

blueg33 said:

Back in 2008 I was made redundant. My income protection insurance required me to sign on. I got £80 per week to feed a family of 4.

If I was to sign in today 15 years later I would get around £83 per week.

In real terms benefits have already been cut massively.

this is equally disgusting as wayne and waynetta and their 75" tv etc , massively wrong how some have a lifestyle out of it and you wont get enough to feed yourself

[Gerradi]

Eric Mc said:

What should they spend their money on, in your opinion? Would you like the state to dictate to them a list of things they are allowed to buy and things they aren't?

I'd like to know how "sTEVO" & others know so much about these peoples spending habits, ie side of a house TV , new cars, multi holidays etc...Are they your friends ? How do you know so much about their finances? How do you know what they have in their homes? How do you know them... you seemingly despise them yet you must be in their circle or are you gleaning this from rumour?

[Gerradi]

Rick1.8t said:

Wow, shall we make the disability requirement for you to be entitled to benefits that you are in a full comatose state?

Its nice to see Joey has moved on from his ex & is not bitter anymore...

[Gerradi]

Portofino said:

Prick

Well done, a fine debating tactic....Maybe spend your time snooping on people so you feel better....

[Gerradi]

Joey Deacon said:

https://www.renaissancelegal.co.uk/blog/disability...

"DLA can provide financial help with the extra care and supervision that a child with autism needs, over and above other children of the same age. This means that proving your child needs more care and support than another child without autism is crucial. It is also vital to detail the time spent providing care, support and supervision."

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topi...

But obviously I am making it all up and you don't get additional benefits for having a child with Autism.

Any of your children on or have been on benefits Joeey...ex wife etc ?

[Tom8]

Hypothetically, if you scrapped all benefits it would be very interesting to see how many people would suddenly be fit and able to work for a living.

[otolith]

Our system only appears to work well for people happy to subsist long term on a very low income. It's crap if you are short term unemployed and it's useless if you have liabilities consistent with a decent income.

The German system looks interesting - I think that the fact that our system is useless to anyone who has a good job is one of the factors causing resentment.

https://www.germany-visa.org/insurances-germany/un...

[Tom8]

otolith said:

Our system only appears to work well for people happy to subsist long term on a very low income. It's crap if you are short term unemployed and it's useless if you have liabilities consistent with a decent income.

The German system looks interesting - I think that the fact that our system is useless to anyone who has a good job is one of the factors causing resentment.

https://www.germany-visa.org/insurances-germany/un...

European systems are all fairly similar paying a percentage of your last salary tapered over time out of work. Far better. You pay in then it looks after you properly if you lose your job. For anyone on almost any salary our system is hopeless for someone needing to pay the bills, but it is diluted so much by paying anyone not working.

[Rivenink]

Tom8 said:

Hypothetically, if you scrapped all benefits it would be very interesting to see how many people would suddenly be fit and able to work for a living.

Hypothetically, it will also be interesting to see if those who genuinely are disabled, and cannot work, starve to death or freeze to death first. What do you think?

[blue_haddock]

Drawweight said:

My neighbour drives a new car and has 4 holidays a year but is on benefits.

Coming in 3..2…1.

I drive a motablity car and have 3 or 4 holidays a year.

I claim PIP due to rheumatoid arthritis, osteo arthritis and fibromyalgia.

I also work fultime as well though so that does lose me a few council points though......

[Harry H]

Tom8 said:

otolith said:

Our system only appears to work well for people happy to subsist long term on a very low income. It's crap if you are short term unemployed and it's useless if you have liabilities consistent with a decent income.

The German system looks interesting - I think that the fact that our system is useless to anyone who has a good job is one of the factors causing resentment.

https://www.germany-visa.org/insurances-germany/un...

European systems are all fairly similar paying a percentage of your last salary tapered over time out of work. Far better. You pay in then it looks after you properly if you lose your job. For anyone on almost any salary our system is hopeless for someone needing to pay the bills, but it is diluted so much by paying anyone not working.

I've thought this for a long time. (only those capable of work)

You're trucking along quite well and for some reason beyond your control your life hits the skids.

I'd like the state to step in and help these people out whilst they recover. But then the payments start to reduce over time to the point that ultimately the only thing covered is a roof over their heads and some food in their stomachs.

You want TV/ Entertainment, get a job
You want heating to be warm, get a job
You want the lights on, get a job
You want new clothes, get a job

Working has its benefits.

Long term unemployment should never be able to be a lifestyle choice.

[Mark-insert old BMW]

I spent the past couple of years working in a shelter / temporary accommodation facility and I would say that the vast majority were physically able to do some sort of work. Obviously they all have ''terrible anxiety'' although they would rarely able to explain how that would manifest itself. Then their was ''me mental 'elf'', which was usually played as a get out clause for all manner of things. All of this was compounded by addiction and/or alcoholism which was the root cause of the issues for most.

Recently there have been a few so called ''creators'' on platforms like TikTok that have been getting thousands ''gifted'' by their gullible followers, yet continue to claim benefits. One of these lovely people is Chelsea Lee Art (real name Leanne Feeley) who also has a council flat in the West End of London, with rent arrears because she spunks all her cash on designer clothing and numerous foreign holidays. A professional victim. Apologies for the anger you may well feel after watching this woman!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AtCvcAoV7I

Often with her best mate Evil Queen (Chelsey Harwood previously Andrew), who has previous for benefits fraud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9wRVTOYuek

The likes of the last 2 are just so blatant about their fraud. They play the system and cry mental health to avoid the consequences and genuine claimants often get tarred with the same brush.

[blue_haddock]

blueg33 said:

My 23 year old daughter has a significant disability and is currently unable to work. Her Universal Credit payment is circa £285 per month. Do people think that she is living it up? Because her disability is not visible she has been denied PiP which focuses on physical disability.

Because of her condition she needs 6 medicines every day, if free prescriptions are removed someone like her will lose 25% of her UC in prescription costs

She could of course get an nhs pre-payment certificate for her prescriptions which is approx £10 per month.

My disability isnt really visible and yet i still manage to claim PIP, its about how a condition effects you and how you manage to walk rather than the name or type of condition.

[Rivenink]

Harry H said:

Tom8 said:

otolith said:

Our system only appears to work well for people happy to subsist long term on a very low income. It's crap if you are short term unemployed and it's useless if you have liabilities consistent with a decent income.

The German system looks interesting - I think that the fact that our system is useless to anyone who has a good job is one of the factors causing resentment.

https://www.germany-visa.org/insurances-germany/un...

European systems are all fairly similar paying a percentage of your last salary tapered over time out of work. Far better. You pay in then it looks after you properly if you lose your job. For anyone on almost any salary our system is hopeless for someone needing to pay the bills, but it is diluted so much by paying anyone not working.

I've thought this for a long time. (only those capable of work)

You're trucking along quite well and for some reason beyond your control your life hits the skids.

I'd like the state to step in and help these people out whilst they recover. But then the payments start to reduce over time to the point that ultimately the only thing covered is a roof over their heads and some food in their stomachs.

You want TV/ Entertainment, get a job
You want heating to be warm, get a job
You want the lights on, get a job
You want new clothes, get a job

Working has its benefits.

Long term unemployment should never be able to be a lifestyle choice.

So your solution to long term unemployment is to make people so cold in winter they can think of nothing but finding warmth, turn off their electricity so they can't charge their phone so they can recieve calls from employers, or look for jobs online, and make them so poor they can't afford new clothes to look good at interviews.

Wonderful logic. Struggling to get a job? Clearly we need to up the difficulty.