LED headlights - driver's perspective

[Saudade]

I travel rurally a fair bit, in fact the weekend just gone I did 300 miles across the pitch black rainy Yorkshire dales in a Honda Jazz with LEDs and my partner and I said the same thing about that car. You cannot see beyond the "wall" at the end of the headlight beam.

Our older cars throw a much softer light and when not blinded by oncoming lights you can see for miles down the road as your eyes adjust.

Also to the people in cars who think your auto full beam/matrix lights work, they do not in all circumstances and to be honest they are way too bright for unlit roads that anyone with decent eyesight is not enjoying your light no matter if it is pointed at them or not.

Edit - does anyone have a good example (video?) of newer cars with LEDs that do have good throw/flood with a "soft" light?

Edited by Saudade on Monday 20th November 08:51

[pherlopolus]

Saudade said:

Edit - does anyone have a good example (video?) of newer cars with LEDs that do have good throw/flood with a "soft" light?

Edited by Saudade on Monday 20th November 08:51

My Scala ones are excellent (Led dip, Halogen Main), I had a Qashqai in 2014 with full LED Lights and they were probably the best headlights I have ever had, better than my S-Type with Xenons.

[DaveyBoyWonder]

riskyj said:

I regularly get flashed by oncoming cars who assume I’m using my full beams (yes they are properly adjusted)

I get that in my Merc so I often flash back with main beam

I too have a transporter as well and LED bulbs in a non-LED housing is seemingly such a weird, grey area. LED bulb sellers (reputable transporter parts places) sell LED bulbs quite happily but in the small print it often says that they're for off-road use only and/or aren't MOT compliant but the real-world reports from decent LED bulbs are that they're actually really good with no retina burning of on-coming drivers etc. But I'm reluctant to put something on the van thats not MOT compliant or fouls the rules of the road in any way... but on the other hand the standard halogen (even upgraded Osram Nightbreakers) are absolutely awful... so do I bin my own van into a tree on a dark road or scorch other drivers retinas and cause them to bin their car into a tree?

[Triumph Man]

Saudade said:

...Also to the people in cars who think your auto full beam... work, they do not in all circumstances....

You are right - the auto full beam in my Discovery can be quite dimwitted - it's generally ok but on occasion it has dipped far too late for my liking, and I have to override it quite a lot. It also tends to leave main beam on when following people when I would have manually dipped long before. Again, I override it.

The thing is there are people who would just merrily leave it to it and blind half the county.

[ian332isport]

I’ve got the best icon adaptive LEDs on my F31 BMW. I was very underwhelmed compared to the Bi-Xenon headlights on my previous E46 330d.

I wouldn’t say the cutoff on the LEDs was particularly abrupt, but the overall quantity of light seems much less. Full beam on the E46 was superb. You could see much further down the road than you can in the F31.

[swisstoni]

Triumph Man said:

Saudade said:

...Also to the people in cars who think your auto full beam... work, they do not in all circumstances....

You are right - the auto full beam in my Discovery can be quite dimwitted - it's generally ok but on occasion it has dipped far too late for my liking, and I have to override it quite a lot. It also tends to leave main beam on when following people when I would have manually dipped long before. Again, I override it.

The thing is there are people who would just merrily leave it to it and blind half the county.

I found the same with my old L406. It dipped long after I would have dipped, I felt uncomfortable about that and so it got turned off.
Now have a newer Lexus which also leaves high beam on a lot more than I would but I don't get flashed.

Edited by swisstoni on Monday 20th November 16:13

[Magikarp]

Both of our cars, the Duster and Smart EQ ForTwo, have LEDs and they're both very good at night, the Smart especially so.

[Otispunkmeyer]

I find this can be the difference between a projector lens set up and just reflectors.

Our RAV4 has LED headlamps, but the bulbs sit behind a projector lens. We seem to have a very nice, evenly lit beam with good cut off and as you say, that little extra light ahead of that which is picked up by reflective items like cats eyes.

Our Kia EV6 has LED headlamps, but as its only the bottom rung model, its got the basic reflector set up and in our opinion they're just not as good. Its not as even, doesn't seem to be as bright and the cut off is quite mushy looking. Vastly prefer driving the Toyota at night, especially when its wet. Having said that the EV6 has absolutely brilliant aids for cruise control and road following. So that does help.

[DaveyBoyWonder]

swisstoni said:

I found the same with my old L406. It dipped long after I would have dipped, I felt uncomfortable about that and so it got turned off.
Now have a newer Lexus which also leaves high beam on a lot more than I would but I don't get flashed.

Edited by swisstoni on Monday 20th November 16:13

Whereas auto high beam in my 12 year old Merc is absolutely, mind bogglingly reactive to the point where I ask myself how on earth it can flick on/off when it does...

[donkmeister]

Triumph Man said:

Saudade said:

...Also to the people in cars who think your auto full beam... work, they do not in all circumstances....

You are right - the auto full beam in my Discovery can be quite dimwitted - it's generally ok but on occasion it has dipped far too late for my liking, and I have to override it quite a lot. It also tends to leave main beam on when following people when I would have manually dipped long before. Again, I override it.

The thing is there are people who would just merrily leave it to it and blind half the county.

Having been mainbeamed a fair bit the last few years, including in car parks, I've wondered if some people assume the car they are driving has it, when it doesn't... It sounds far-fetched but I've read forum posts from people assuming (wrongly) that they had radar cruise and wondering why they had to intervene before their car rammed another vehicle. So, not a stretch.

Of course, people were driving head-on with mainbeams before these systems were commonplace so it could just be tossers who can't drive.

[Flumpo]

Triumph Man said:

Saudade said:

...Also to the people in cars who think your auto full beam... work, they do not in all circumstances....

You are right - the auto full beam in my Discovery can be quite dimwitted - it's generally ok but on occasion it has dipped far too late for my liking, and I have to override it quite a lot. It also tends to leave main beam on when following people when I would have manually dipped long before. Again, I override it.

The thing is there are people who would just merrily leave it to it and blind half the county.

My Mazda system is similar, I often overrule it as I’m not convinced it isn’t blinding people.

I don’t think Volvo’s system is great either. I was once in l1 with a mlm sitting in l2 about 5 car lengths back. His headlights seemed to have decided I didn’t exist and were on full beam. I was able to dip his lights by driving into l2 over and over.

[Flumpo]

DaveyBoyWonder said:

swisstoni said:

I found the same with my old L406. It dipped long after I would have dipped, I felt uncomfortable about that and so it got turned off.
Now have a newer Lexus which also leaves high beam on a lot more than I would but I don't get flashed.

Edited by swisstoni on Monday 20th November 16:13

Whereas auto high beam in my 12 year old Merc is absolutely, mind bogglingly reactive to the point where I ask myself how on earth it can flick on/off when it does...

Does it have the matrix system? It’s that part that seems to cause the problems. Mine notices cars very quickly, but dips the sections as it approaches and I think it’s that causing confusion for other drivers.

[James6112]

The LED upgrade on my wife’s Kuga Phev are great. Full beam, but around the oncoming car / car in front.
Great system.
Better than my 2014 Skoda!

[Maxym]

Those complaining about the limited throw of dipped beams… are you trying to drive too fast and neglecting to use main beams. I despair of people driving along unlit roads on dipped only.

You need to be able to see well ahead so as to be able to stop before encountering an unexpected obstruction. Talk about blind faith..

[james6546]

We have a 2017 merc c250d and I find the headlights so bad that I don’t drive it at night.

It’s got the LED lights but not the adaptive ones.

The beam ends so abruptly that you can’t see what’s coming past the light spread at all and I end up slowing down like an OAP when a car comes the other way as I simply can’t see what’s past the car coming the other way.

The full beam is fantastic, but I can’t use that all of the time…

I’ve asked two separate garages to check the alignment but it always comes back as ok.

So now I take the L200 with the xenons. It’s the opposite of the merc, the full beam sucks, but I can at least see which way a corner goes on dipped beam

[james6546]

Maxym said:

Those complaining about the limited throw of dipped beams… are you trying to drive too fast and neglecting to use main beams. I despair of people driving along unlit roads on dipped only.

You need to be able to see well ahead so as to be able to stop before encountering an unexpected obstruction. Talk about blind faith..

Maybe you actually should drive cars that are being talked about, rather than just assuming the worst from everyone. It’s kind of hard to drive with full beam on when there is a car coming the other way

[Muddle238]

DaveyBoyWonder said:

I get that in my Merc so I often flash back with main beam

I too have a transporter as well and LED bulbs in a non-LED housing is seemingly such a weird, grey area. LED bulb sellers (reputable transporter parts places) sell LED bulbs quite happily but in the small print it often says that they're for off-road use only and/or aren't MOT compliant but the real-world reports from decent LED bulbs are that they're actually really good with no retina burning of on-coming drivers etc. But I'm reluctant to put something on the van thats not MOT compliant or fouls the rules of the road in any way... but on the other hand the standard halogen (even upgraded Osram Nightbreakers) are absolutely awful... so do I bin my own van into a tree on a dark road or scorch other drivers retinas and cause them to bin their car into a tree?

I believe that LED bulbs in headlamp housings designed for standard bulbs isn't a grey area at all; it's black and white in law as illegal and will be an MOT fail.

I often see people driving around with aftermarket HID kits in cars designed for halogens, either they don't care about the law and therefore other drivers, or they genuinely believe that their own setup doesn't dazzle anybody else and is therefore fine. But the reality often is that these setups do dazzle or cause excessive glare, because you can't evaluate the performance of a non-standard headlight fully and comprehensively by standing looking at it on a driveway at night or by shining the lights against a brick wall.

I have a car with fairly woeful halogen projectors, I've tried fitting upgraded halogen bulbs but in reality the yellowish glow from my headlights is always masked by the relatively harsh blueish light from LED headlamps or HID headlamps, especially in the wet. Interestingly it's not an issue with oncoming cars also sporting yellowish halogens, but once you introduce a vehicle with far superior lights coming the other way, the way the human eye reacts has a detrimental effect on being able to see using your own headlamp beam effectively.

So the solution is to drive to the conditions, which may mean slowing down when your own headlamp beam effectiveness is compromised by those of an oncoming car, but I don't believe fitting increasingly brighter bulbs is the answer, as it just moves the problem to someone else.

Just my two pennies.

[Mr-B]

I hadn't really noticed it until reading this thread but tonight I made a note to see if my LED's had this issue and they appear to have. There is a very sharp cut off on them and beyond that it is quite dark, there is no soft light spill beyond where the cut off is like I think you get with other lights. The main beam makes up for it though which you definitely have to use on unlit roads.

[Robertb]

Saudade said:

I travel rurally a fair bit, in fact the weekend just gone I did 300 miles across the pitch black rainy Yorkshire dales in a Honda Jazz with LEDs and my partner and I said the same thing about that car. You cannot see beyond the "wall" at the end of the headlight beam.

Our older cars throw a much softer light and when not blinded by oncoming lights you can see for miles down the road as your eyes adjust.

Also to the people in cars who think your auto full beam/matrix lights work, they do not in all circumstances and to be honest they are way too bright for unlit roads that anyone with decent eyesight is not enjoying your light no matter if it is pointed at them or not.

Edit - does anyone have a good example (video?) of newer cars with LEDs that do have good throw/flood with a "soft" light?

Edited by Saudade on Monday 20th November 08:51

I have matrix LEDs on my CLS. I agree they are very bright. I do occasionally get flashed, particularly on long straights. Generally I override the ‘auto’ function in those situations. Sometimes I think it’s because other drivers don’t see them ‘dip’ obviously and think you’ve not done switched off the high beams.

[carlove]

My car has fairly poor halogen projectors(currently got Osram Nightbreakers just to make it a bit better) and my headlights can get a bit lost when other cars with LEDs are nearby. I had a new Vauxhall Mokka behind me going through a housing estate, and it's headlights were going well beyond mine, and were shining so much wider than mine do (I will add I wasn't dazzled at all) but I could have had sidelights on for the amount of use my headlights were at that point. I might get a Mokka just for those lights

In terms of cars coming the other way, factory LEDs rarely cause me issue(the last generation Qashqai can be a bit dazzling), what causes me issue is the old cars with a cheap LED in halogen housing (reflectors are much worse than projectors for this), they're absolutely horrendous, and if you ever get a chance to see the actual light output, it's abysmal, they're blinding everyone while giving worse light output than the original halogen bulbs, what's the point? You can kind of tell when a car has more expensive LED bulbs in halogen housing, as they're not quite as blinding, but still worse than factory LEDs.

As a driver of a car with crap headlights, I used to drive a 50 mile commute on A Roads, and saw plenty of cars coming the other way with the matrix lights going, they honestly never dazzled me, I used to like having a car with matrix LEDs behind me, as I couldn't have full beams on due to traffic ahead but their lights were also lighting up the verges ahead of me, which benefitted me and didn't dazzle at all, but maybe my auto dimming mirror is just really good at it's job.