Don't idle ... you could be fined
Discussion
Heard a report this morning that somewhere in UK (sorry, I missed the name of the location ... too busy checking my speedometer, oops, sorry Misses, didn't see you!) you can be fined if you are spotted (by the Council's Geheime Staatspolizei I believe) stationary with your engine idling.
Now my Tiv tends to vapour lock when the engine is switched off ... so I tend to leave it idling if I'm stopped for only a few minutes (and someone is in the car). I must remember not to go to wherever it is I'll get fined for that!
It's all to do with pollution. But I seem to recall a report that switching off and restarting an engine produces more pollutants than leaving it running for a short while. Maybe someone can confirm or rebut.
Streaky
Now my Tiv tends to vapour lock when the engine is switched off ... so I tend to leave it idling if I'm stopped for only a few minutes (and someone is in the car). I must remember not to go to wherever it is I'll get fined for that!
It's all to do with pollution. But I seem to recall a report that switching off and restarting an engine produces more pollutants than leaving it running for a short while. Maybe someone can confirm or rebut.
Streaky
The construction and use regs state that when a vehicle is stationary the engine should be turned off. There are some exceptions, e.g. waiting at traffic signals, or a refrigerated lorry that relies on engine to run compressor. I don't think vapour lock was mentioned!. There was a thread on turbo timers recently that went into this.
streaky said:
But I seem to recall a report that switching off and restarting an engine produces more pollutants than leaving it running for a short while. Maybe someone can confirm or rebut.
Streaky
From someone who used to do the Mobil Economy run I once heard the advice re traffic lights.
Obviously the desired technique was to time things so you didn't stop, but if all that failed he judged if he was going to be stopped longer than 20 seconds. If so engine off, if not kept it idling.
Absolutely NFC how that advice could be related to modern cars.
In Sweden some towns have rules about empty or idle running. Tomgångkörning forbjuden or Tomgångkörning max 1 min signs are displayed either on approach to restricted areas or at a specific site where it is banned.
Lets face it, even if everyone left their engines idling un-necessarily it wouldnt get close to the emmissions and polution that a coal fired power station kicks out each and every hour....
Perspective is what we need - not some numpty car hating moron dictating what I can do with my own car....
Perspective is what we need - not some numpty car hating moron dictating what I can do with my own car....
parrot of doom said:
My opinion is that its my car, my fuel, and my lack of comfort if I'm waiting in a cold car.
So they can stuff their rules, if I want to run my engine and heater, I will do, and bollox to them.
Which is fine, but I'm sure you'd be the first to complain if your were given a fixed panalty for doing so.
parrot of doom said:
My opinion is that its my car, my fuel, and my lack of comfort if I'm waiting in a cold car.
So they can stuff their rules, if I want to run my engine and heater, I will do, and bollox to them.
Exactly.
...and in some towns where you are made, by council congestion-creation initiatives, to stop and start every few yards, by the time you got to the end of the street your battery would be flat from re-starting your car so many times.
Plus, given the richer mixture sometimes applied during starting, I'm not so sure there'd be much pollution reduction.
Oh, and many cars will not re-start easily if they have only just been started from cold.
But of course, such rules are not usually made by people who know anything about cars anyway.
It was in the Mail today ( cant find a link ) and referred to Croydon who intend to dish out £40 penalties if you are caught with your engine running at the roadside. Other councils now have teh power to do the same.... kerching !!!!!!!!!!
Interestingly it says the biggest culprits are buses !
Interestingly it says the biggest culprits are buses !
Apparently it refers to powers being given to 'wardens' (presumably traffic wardens) to fine motorists for the offence (whatever its title might be, it appeasrs to mean stationary vehicle, engine running ... talk of buses stopped at time stages being fined). It was reported that it was happening in Croydon already and was set to spread across the country.
Now, we know how vigilant traffic wardens are, so we'd all better switch the engine off the moment we see a yellow banded hat! And if there's a TVR bocking the traffic with an engine that won't restart ... it's mine!
Streaky
Now, we know how vigilant traffic wardens are, so we'd all better switch the engine off the moment we see a yellow banded hat! And if there's a TVR bocking the traffic with an engine that won't restart ... it's mine!
Streaky
OK. So it's raining and cold and you're waiting or someone who has just nipped into the shop for 2 minutes. There's a queue in the shop, so it takes 5 minutes. When the passenger comes out the car is now steamed up, so you star the engine and turn the fan on and wait until the screen clears - and as it does you see the FPN attached to the windscreen ...
Hmm.
Nothing for it really.
Drive around the block until you your passenger appears. Pollution AND congestion but legal.
Some places might make that a long drive of course. There are city centres in existence, I find, that would make it quicker to take a run to Edinburgh and back than try and negotiate the multifarious one-way systems that would constitute 'around the block'.
Anywhere with trams seems particularly bad. So that would be Sheffield, Nottingham and, er, oh, Croydon.
Hmm.
Nothing for it really.
Drive around the block until you your passenger appears. Pollution AND congestion but legal.
Some places might make that a long drive of course. There are city centres in existence, I find, that would make it quicker to take a run to Edinburgh and back than try and negotiate the multifarious one-way systems that would constitute 'around the block'.
Anywhere with trams seems particularly bad. So that would be Sheffield, Nottingham and, er, oh, Croydon.
This was the point I was getting at when I posed this question to www.safecam.org
"In response to your request dated 21/02/05 regarding details of the vehicles
used for mobile operations, I can provide the following information:
The Partnership uses Police Spec Ford Galaxies for its mobile operations.
Engine size 2.8 and the fuel used is Petrol. As for the process used to
decide on these vehicles - the Partnership does not hold this information as
the vehicles are part of the Police Fleet generally. For more information
about why the Police utilise these particular vehicles, and for more detail
on their specifications may I suggest you contact the Fleet Manager of Avon
and Somerset Constabulary at Police Headquarters, PO Box 37, Valley Road,
Portishead, Bristol, BS20 8QJ.
The vehicle's engine does not have to be running in order to operate the
mobile equipment. The equipment is run off a separate battery source to
avoid any conflict with engine surge. This allows the vehicle engine to run
if required i.e for heating or air conditioning. It is up to the crews
whether they run the engine or not. The tailgate of the vehicle has to be
up when the equipment is operated so it does get cold. Crews may run the
engine to keep warm, they are also supplied with thick fleeces and other
uniform when working in cold conditions."
Would like to see them nicked for sitting idly (or idling)
Tony
"In response to your request dated 21/02/05 regarding details of the vehicles
used for mobile operations, I can provide the following information:
The Partnership uses Police Spec Ford Galaxies for its mobile operations.
Engine size 2.8 and the fuel used is Petrol. As for the process used to
decide on these vehicles - the Partnership does not hold this information as
the vehicles are part of the Police Fleet generally. For more information
about why the Police utilise these particular vehicles, and for more detail
on their specifications may I suggest you contact the Fleet Manager of Avon
and Somerset Constabulary at Police Headquarters, PO Box 37, Valley Road,
Portishead, Bristol, BS20 8QJ.
The vehicle's engine does not have to be running in order to operate the
mobile equipment. The equipment is run off a separate battery source to
avoid any conflict with engine surge. This allows the vehicle engine to run
if required i.e for heating or air conditioning. It is up to the crews
whether they run the engine or not. The tailgate of the vehicle has to be
up when the equipment is operated so it does get cold. Crews may run the
engine to keep warm, they are also supplied with thick fleeces and other
uniform when working in cold conditions."
Would like to see them nicked for sitting idly (or idling)
Tony
turbobloke said:Culled for a few sources:
Drive around the block until you your passenger appears. Pollution AND congestion.
Diesel exhaust consists of gases (oxygen, nitrogen, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide) together with small amounts of carbon particles, a wide variety of inorganic compounds (such as sulphate and nitrogen oxides) and organic compounds including known carcinogens such as benzene and certain polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs and nitro-PAHs) which are present in both the gaseous and particulate phase.
And for ULP:
There are three main groups of substances the oil companies use instead of lead.
Aromatics-organic compounds based on the benzene ring, a 6-carbon ring with 3 delocalised double bonds, e.g., benzene, toluene, xylene, etc.
Olefines-organic compounds which have double bonds. After combustion, one critical by-product is 1,3-butadiene.
Oxygenates-organic compounds containing oxygen molecules such as methane, ethane or MTBE (methyl-tertiary-butyl ether). The US Environmental Protection Agency has targeted five toxic air pollutants-benzene and 1,3-butadiene are the top two on the list. They are both highly carcinogenic substances. 1,3-butadiene has only just come to international attention.
In Sweden, they found:
In tests, exhausts contained "relatively large amounts of carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs)".
Twenty-six different PAHs were found in, including 100microgrammes of benzo[a]pyrenes, which have been mentioned as a carcinogen in cigarette smoke.
Other chemicals emitted include carbon monoxide and methane, hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxide and smoke particles.
Just for interest - Streaky
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