Travellers, what do they do in other coutries?
Discussion
Having lived in France for four years, and having travelled around pretty much all of Europe for several years, the problem with them here is fairly small by comparison. On the continent there are huge numbers of eastern european economic migrants and they make our gippos/pikeys/travellers look like a Caravan Club Rally.
The big differance in France is that they do not have legal aid lawyers queing up to help them beat the system so when the police move in with their guns no one questions it. It gauls me that they don't pay tax, stop where they want, when they want, do what they want and leave us to pick up the tab, and yet somehow within all this they still find halfwits who support their rights because they seem to have a vision of a couple of horse drawn tinkers sharpening knives and selling lucky heather.
And the one thing that really sticks in my craw is that they get planning pemission to build where they want because John Prescott lets them ride over every council he doesn't like.
And the one thing that really sticks in my craw is that they get planning pemission to build where they want because John Prescott lets them ride over every council he doesn't like.
From a 'reformed' traveller/gypo about 3 years ago, recalling the mobs' attempt at crossing into Germany;
(roughly)
"we got as far as the border following a few months in Holland and France, where we'd been making money, on driveways/paths in peoples houses, ruining gardens with machinery as we went, some police or someone stopped us all and went through all the machines
(diggers/trucks I imagine) looking at the serials, and comparing with stolen from England, they were confiscated, and we were turned back"
Mind you he was at the time using a hired machine on my garden, for cash one weekend !
(roughly)
"we got as far as the border following a few months in Holland and France, where we'd been making money, on driveways/paths in peoples houses, ruining gardens with machinery as we went, some police or someone stopped us all and went through all the machines
(diggers/trucks I imagine) looking at the serials, and comparing with stolen from England, they were confiscated, and we were turned back"
Mind you he was at the time using a hired machine on my garden, for cash one weekend !
From what I understand, the Irish are making life more difficult for them, so they are moving over here.
I despair at the way this country seems unable to manage it's affairs and lay down rules of residence here under ANY government, whilst others seem to have less problems doing so.
I despair at the way this country seems unable to manage it's affairs and lay down rules of residence here under ANY government, whilst others seem to have less problems doing so.
rich 36 said:
Mind you he was at the time using a hired machine on my garden, for cash one weekend !
Which is a huge part of the problem.
People take travellers on to do jobs on the cheap for cash. When it goes wrong and they find they have been ripped off, they have nowhere to go to air their grievance. Usually it is the police. Occasionally it is with the contractors who respond with extreme violence or threats of it.
If people did not entertain having cheap work done by 'contacting the driver' on the van with the yellow light covered in ladders and the phone number on the side, they would not have the sorts of problems they encounter with butter thin tarmac on driveways and over cladding on facias and sofits when they were expecting the real job with an extortion racket attached to it.
I have to say though that they are not all like this. Some do work hard and do a reasonable job especially in site clearance and garden rubbish removal. Sadly it is often then down to the local authority to remove the waste when the camp move to their next location in search of more jobs for cash. That is then taken out of rates/council tax to pay for it.
There is no doubt that large and small groups of travellers cause problems wherever they go. The people that employ them are largely to blame. There is no such thing as a free lunch
>> Edited by gone on Tuesday 2nd August 11:29
I suspect the Police, as many other folk, are nervous of them.
They take the law into their own hands, they are abusive and usually leave a mess everywhere. They have no respect or regard for other people's property - unless they want it for themselves.
Having said that, there are a minority who don't make a mess and do abide by the law but it is the minority.
Sadly neither the Police not the Courts can protect us from these people.
Sadly, as with other issues, we seem to attract them over here - and then they complain when they are expected to comply with the law etc.
They take the law into their own hands, they are abusive and usually leave a mess everywhere. They have no respect or regard for other people's property - unless they want it for themselves.
Having said that, there are a minority who don't make a mess and do abide by the law but it is the minority.
Sadly neither the Police not the Courts can protect us from these people.
Sadly, as with other issues, we seem to attract them over here - and then they complain when they are expected to comply with the law etc.
autismuk said:
Whilst I agree with much of what you say, there are quite justified concerns about travellers abuse of the law.
Is there any truth in the often heard comment that Police "tread lightly" when dealing with traveller communities ?
Travellers are a minority group within society. They have as much expectation to be dealt with the same as any other minority whether that be through race (travellers are classed as a race) or creed. The Police must treat travellers with the same respect they do for ethnic minority and other minorities. It is not just a question of treading lightly but understanding the protocols involved around their traditions and beliefs.
Travellers have strict codes of honour and discipline within their own communities. Many are devout catholics. It is unusual for children to be born out of wedlock and is strictly frowned upon witin traveller communities. Marriages are often arranged and sex before marriage is a taboo. There is a definate rank structure within their communities. Their values are different to those of us who descend from other groups within society. Many do not understand or know about those values and therefore they view those who's customs and beliefs differ to their own with extreme suspicion.
That apart, it is no secret that the sudden arrival of unwanted guests pulling trailers/caravans in the local vicinity of towns and village dwellers is met with dismay for the consequences it usually brings with it.
>> Edited by gone on Tuesday 2nd August 13:52
gone said:
If people did not entertain having cheap work done by 'contacting the driver' on the van with the yellow light covered in ladders and the phone number on the side, they would not have the sorts of problems they encounter
yup and here's a clue, if the number is a mobile don't call it
gone said:
Whilst I agree with much of what you say, there are quite justified concerns about travellers abuse of the law.
Is there any truth in the often heard comment that Police "tread lightly" when dealing with traveller communities ?
Travellers are a minority group within society. They have as much expectation to be dealt with the same as any other minority whether that be through race (travellers are classed as a race) or creed.
Up to a point, yes, but if you start going down this line isn't almost everyone a member of a "minority group" ?
I am mystified how travellers can be classed as a "Race" ; the old Romany Gypsies, (yes - more of a culture than a race, maybe), but are there any of these left ?
Gone said:
The Police must treat travellers with the same respect they do for ethnic minority and other minorities. It is not just a question of treading lightly but understanding the protocols involved around their traditions and beliefs.
.... so is this a qualified "yes" ?
Gone said:
Travellers have strict codes of honour and discipline within their own communities.
It would appear that these codes do not extend to the outside world. I struggle to find a real difference between these sorts of groupings and gangs, to be honest.
I ask, because I caught someone trying to nick my red diesel the other day ; he offered to "buy some for £5" (for a car !), and no-one seems particularly interested.
Gone said:
Many are devout catholics. It is unusual for children to be born out of wedlock and is strictly frowned upon witin traveller communities. Marriages are often arranged and sex before marriage is a taboo. There is a definate rank structure within their communities. Their values are different to those of us who descend from other groups within society. Many do not understand or know about those values and therefore they view those who's customs and beliefs differ to their own with extreme suspicion.
This is all very interesting gone, but I don't see how it's particularly relevant. Virtually any tight community will be suspicious about outsiders (Police or anyone else).
gone said:
Travellers are a minority group within society. They have as much expectation to be dealt with the same as any other minority whether that be through race (travellers are classed as a race) or creed. The Police must treat travellers with the same respect they do for ethnic minority and other minorities. It is not just a question of treading lightly but understanding the protocols involved around their traditions and beliefs.
Travellers have strict codes of honour and discipline within their own communities. Many are devout catholics. It is unusual for children to be born out of wedlock and is strictly frowned upon witin traveller communities. Marriages are often arranged and sex before marriage is a taboo. There is a definate rank structure within their communities. Their values are different to those of us who descend from other groups within society. Many do not understand or know about those values and therefore they view those who's customs and beliefs differ to their own with extreme suspicion.
F**king minoritories and their so called human rights, what about my rights as a tax payer ? I don't pay (relatively, a lot of money) to maintain the local roads/community areas so some bunch of people can come along at will and use it as a campsite. Don't care if they are white, English, hetrosexual males looking for a free holiday or Catholic, Irish Travellers looking for a pitch.
It's not right and the sooner we stop pandering to the so called human rights of every minority that pops out of the woodwork in a vain attempt to circumvent the basic rules of society, the better. If anybody, no matter what race, religion, colour or lifestyle, wants to camp or pitch caravans on a piece of land there is a process they need to follow. If they don't follow it the council/police should get rid of them sharpish.
I can't see why anybody would have a problem with this ? I think gone is having a bit of a wind up and I don't mind biting, sometimes it needs to be said as we, the general tax paying public seem to be forgotten.
gone said:
The Police must treat travellers with the same respect they do for ethnic minority and other minorities.
No problem there - complete agreement.
How come every time they turn up there is a crime wave of shoplifting in the local shops ?
Do the local shoplifters take the opportunity to have a bit more of a go than they normally do when travellers are in town ?
gone said:
That apart, it is no secret that the sudden arrival of unwanted guests pulling trailers/caravans in the local vicinity of towns and village dwellers is met with dismay for the consequences it usually brings with it.
If that was all there was to it, then fine.
For example, the local council recently moved on about half a dozen caravans - the council said they were pleased it *only* cost them 2000 pounds to clean up the mess afterwards.
This happens dozens of times per year.
This 2000 pounds comes out of *my* community charge, which is currently running at 25 quid a week, i.e. a substantial fraction of my weekly food and petrol bills, FFS !
Politicians need to realise there are many votes in moving travellers on ASAP.
Travellers aren't allowed to vote, are they ?
All this minority business is fine until they turn up in your own front yard.
A few years back I had the pleasure of having a number of them deciding to camp at the back yard of my business premises.
They obviously blocked us working (we accept deliveries in the area), called the police who did absolutely F
All.
Had to go to court to get rid of them which cost me about £4K in legal expenses. Luckly I had a sympathetic judge and enabled me to get rid of them within a couple of weeks. A distributor who can not accept deliveries from the manufacturers doesn't last for long.
The mess and damage they caused after receiving the notification was dreadfull. I can leave it to your imagination.
The last day they sent their kids out (10 and below) who raced around our car park, scratching cars with their motorbikes and breaking off aerials.
They know the law and they know the police will not do anything.
And by the way the had new BMWs, Mecercedes etc so you can guess how they are able to afford them
Before this I was totally unbiased, but now I see them for what they really are.
No doubt I just pushed them on to some other poor bd. But what the heck, at least they are out of my face.
Dave
A few years back I had the pleasure of having a number of them deciding to camp at the back yard of my business premises.
They obviously blocked us working (we accept deliveries in the area), called the police who did absolutely F
All. Had to go to court to get rid of them which cost me about £4K in legal expenses. Luckly I had a sympathetic judge and enabled me to get rid of them within a couple of weeks. A distributor who can not accept deliveries from the manufacturers doesn't last for long.
The mess and damage they caused after receiving the notification was dreadfull. I can leave it to your imagination.
The last day they sent their kids out (10 and below) who raced around our car park, scratching cars with their motorbikes and breaking off aerials.
They know the law and they know the police will not do anything.
And by the way the had new BMWs, Mecercedes etc so you can guess how they are able to afford them
Before this I was totally unbiased, but now I see them for what they really are.
No doubt I just pushed them on to some other poor b
d. But what the heck, at least they are out of my face. Dave
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