RE: PH Blog: let's talk about SPECS
Discussion
miniman said:
I've toyed with the idea of constructing a device comprising an electromagnet & switch, a large steel washer and a packet of crisps.
First I fit the electromagnet behind the front numberplate, mounting the switch somewhere discreet in the driver's footwell. With the magnet switched on, I eat the crisps then pop the washer into the empty packet and stick it to the numberplate so it is held on by the magnet neatly obscuring the number plate.
Should plod put in an appearance, a quick flick of the switch and "what crisp packet, officer?"
Plus I get to eat the crisps. Win win, I think you'll agree.
so a packet of crisps on the front number plate is going to be the new way to recognise fellow PHers? First I fit the electromagnet behind the front numberplate, mounting the switch somewhere discreet in the driver's footwell. With the magnet switched on, I eat the crisps then pop the washer into the empty packet and stick it to the numberplate so it is held on by the magnet neatly obscuring the number plate.
Should plod put in an appearance, a quick flick of the switch and "what crisp packet, officer?"
Plus I get to eat the crisps. Win win, I think you'll agree.
The PH Smiley sticker is dead, long live the McCoys!*
* other crisp varieties are available
I think they work well at keeping the traffic moving but i'm mystified by the people who drive through them at normal speeds. This happens a lot on the M3 junction with the M25 heading south. Do some drivers really believe they work in the same way as GATSOs?
Should people this stupid be driving?
Also I think it's alarming when lorry drivers appear to enjoy having everyone else driving at their speeds and relish the opportunity to tailgate and/or steam up on the inside.
Should people this stupid be driving?
Also I think it's alarming when lorry drivers appear to enjoy having everyone else driving at their speeds and relish the opportunity to tailgate and/or steam up on the inside.
My experience of roadworks SPECS is that they reduce congestion. Daily travel between Bristol and Reading used to involve a lot of queueing because they just used to close two lanes.
The queues more or less disappeared (J11 excepted) when they changed to using the hard shoulder, slowing the traffic with 50mph SPECS, and keeping traffic moving.
It's still bloody annoying when you drive past dozens of cameras but zero workers, though.
The queues more or less disappeared (J11 excepted) when they changed to using the hard shoulder, slowing the traffic with 50mph SPECS, and keeping traffic moving.
It's still bloody annoying when you drive past dozens of cameras but zero workers, though.
Bazza79 said:
On a serious note, before I began my career I had a lot of negativity towards roadworks. Obvioulsy through first hand experience my opinion has changed. Traffic Management is an essential part of the job not only to protect the workforce but also the road user too. All of the projects I have worked on, have vastly improved the section of road and are in the interest of the motorist in the long run, it's just unfortunate that a little bit of pain is necessary in the short term. I've seen some hideous driving and reactions to road works; being spat on, have abuse hurled at me, bottles of definitely not Tango thrown at me, people ignoring diversions and driving through closed carriageways etc etc. Working within TM on a wet dark night with traffic ripping past at 80mph is bloody scary. The restrcitive legislation on Traffic Management is a response to accidents experienced in the past. By reducing the amount of accidents hopefully this legislation can be kept at it's current level and not increased.
I think this sums it up really...why do you feel the need to speed? I don't work for brake, before you ask. I'm not a green warrior, and I race cars.The speed limits in roadworks, 95% of the time, are there for a reason....to protect lives! Our culture now vilifies people who speed past schools and drink and drive, yet we are happy to break the limit in a high risk area on the motorway. I know it is frustrating, especially when there are large sections of road without anyone actually working, but quite often the road sections are narrowed to accommodate the coned off sections, so surely it is safer just to stick to the prescribed limit. It would only take for one person to lose control and with the crap ability of most drivers on the road and given the narrower lanes this will escalate into something far bigger. As is so often proven. So without wishing to get all "Think about the Children", why not think about the people that are actually having to work there. Go stand at the side of the road and try and concentrate with people coming past you at 50...then do the same with them coming past at 80.
So far all Ive read is the stories of ooo look at me, I can break the law! is it big...personally I don't think so.
3ft & Clean,
RE M3 Southbound Intersection with M25.
This scheme was implemented approx. 2years ago as a permanent installation. Prior to that the road layout was temporary with traffic cones and temp signage etc. During this time it was only the SPECS sites on the M3 Southbound hat were opertaional. The SPECS sites on the joining link roads from the M25 were dummies. One camera had a bit of cable conduit dangling from it for quite some time (a giveway if ever there was one!).
I've driven past the departure camera (one at the end) a few time over recent months and I'm fairly confident that it isn't operational. The lighting post on the approach hasn't been opertaional for sometime. This was previoulsy required (I managed the installation) so unless there has been a change in technology (camera is still the same as before?) this camera is probably out of action at night time at least!
RE M3 Southbound Intersection with M25.
This scheme was implemented approx. 2years ago as a permanent installation. Prior to that the road layout was temporary with traffic cones and temp signage etc. During this time it was only the SPECS sites on the M3 Southbound hat were opertaional. The SPECS sites on the joining link roads from the M25 were dummies. One camera had a bit of cable conduit dangling from it for quite some time (a giveway if ever there was one!).
I've driven past the departure camera (one at the end) a few time over recent months and I'm fairly confident that it isn't operational. The lighting post on the approach hasn't been opertaional for sometime. This was previoulsy required (I managed the installation) so unless there has been a change in technology (camera is still the same as before?) this camera is probably out of action at night time at least!
Bazza79 said:
I've read through most of the posts on this article and have found many interesting.
Thought I'd add my 2p's worth.
Being a Civil Engineer, I have worked for many contratcors on roads projects for the Highways Agency on the M25, M40, A34, M4 and so on. I have worked closely with Traffic Management and Speed Monitoring contractors. It has been 1.5 years since last working on a roads project, however the following was true then;
1.) If you look at any given set of cameras, there are usually less cameras than there are lanes of traffic. Cameras are usually setup to monitor the outside (fast) lanes of traffic as this is the most likley lane for the speeding offence.
2.) Cameras are paired for monitoring average speed. This is usually in sequence i.e. Cameras 1 & 2, or 2 & 3, or 3 & 4. The reason for this is that they have to run cables between sites - longer the cable runs the higher the installation costs. It is usually also the approach cameras, as redcuing the traffic speed before the works area is the ultimate aim.
3.) It is common practice to only monitor traffic speeds in one direction (even if they're cameras on both carriageways). This is usually the carriageway where the workforce is carrying out work. For works on the central reservation it is necessary to close the minimum of the fast lane on both carriageways, however the works will be carried out from one side.
4.) Illumination - Cameras require a floodlight in advance so they can detect the registration plate. There should be a floodlight post approx. 30-50m in advance of the camera site, if not then it's probably a dummy camera (see below).
5.) Dummy cameras - Do exist and do work to good effect. See 4 above for a way of identifying them. Another way of identifying them is the lack of surface laid cables feeding the cameras. Cables are usually surface laid (rather then buried, due to cost) and visible from a distance (green or black ducting).
6.) In heavy rain/spray the cameras are often not able to read no plate info. Especially at night time due to glare from headlights etc.
7.) Why they are utilised - I noticed many comments above about them being used to protect the workforce, yet often there is nobody working. Understandable comments. Often when travelling through Traffic Management, it looks like miles of road is restrcited with ony work being carried out in one location. Governement legislation controls the layout of the Traffic Management (TM) layouts.
TM is required to have a set amount of TM in place in advance of a works area and after it. The same legislation dictates that if reducing the number of lanes running, you may not merge slow moving traffic into the outside (fast) lanes (this prevents slow moving HGV's from pulling out in front of faster moving vehicles). In this situation a 'switch' is required. Fast traffic must be merged into the slow lanes first, then once at the pace of the slow traffic, redirected back across into the outside lanes. The merging of lanes can only take place over a set distance. All of these rules equate to long sections of traffic management for a small works area.
When it is necessary to reduce lane widths (below 3.4m I think?), which is called 'Narrow Lanes' (Contraflow or hardshoulder running), legislation dictates that the road speed must be reduced to 50mph. This is to protect not only the workforce but also the road user. I'm sure we've all travelled through 'Narrow Lanes' when someone has drifted out their lane? Imagine this at 80mph. The only way to really enforce this reduced speed limit is by using SPECS.
In summary what I'm saying is that there is no rule of thumb for beating the SPECS system, and you are always making assumptions when you try and we all know what assumptions are the mother of, don't we? However, if you really must speed through SPECS sections in an emergency; stick to the inside lane and pray for a lack of floodlights and visible cabling!
On a serious note, before I began my career I had a lot of negativity towards roadworks. Obvioulsy through first hand experience my opinion has changed. Traffic Management is an essential part of the job not only to protect the workforce but also the road user too. All of the projects I have worked on, have vastly improved the section of road and are in the interest of the motorist in the long run, it's just unfortunate that a little bit of pain is necessary in the short term. I've seen some hideous driving and reactions to road works; being spat on, have abuse hurled at me, bottles of definitely not Tango thrown at me, people ignoring diversions and driving through closed carriageways etc etc. Working within TM on a wet dark night with traffic ripping past at 80mph is bloody scary. The restrcitive legislation on Traffic Management is a response to accidents experienced in the past. By reducing the amount of accidents hopefully this legislation can be kept at it's current level and not increased.
sensible post mate, in particular with regard to the road user. I had a rear wheel sheer four of five bolts on the M1. It was a rather alarming experience and I do remember thinking the recovery call centre guy asking me to "get out and see if it is ok" as being one of the better 'computer says no' requests I'd had in a while. I also don't get those that cruise through at 55+, its just odd and tempting the dark forces in blue.Thought I'd add my 2p's worth.
Being a Civil Engineer, I have worked for many contratcors on roads projects for the Highways Agency on the M25, M40, A34, M4 and so on. I have worked closely with Traffic Management and Speed Monitoring contractors. It has been 1.5 years since last working on a roads project, however the following was true then;
1.) If you look at any given set of cameras, there are usually less cameras than there are lanes of traffic. Cameras are usually setup to monitor the outside (fast) lanes of traffic as this is the most likley lane for the speeding offence.
2.) Cameras are paired for monitoring average speed. This is usually in sequence i.e. Cameras 1 & 2, or 2 & 3, or 3 & 4. The reason for this is that they have to run cables between sites - longer the cable runs the higher the installation costs. It is usually also the approach cameras, as redcuing the traffic speed before the works area is the ultimate aim.
3.) It is common practice to only monitor traffic speeds in one direction (even if they're cameras on both carriageways). This is usually the carriageway where the workforce is carrying out work. For works on the central reservation it is necessary to close the minimum of the fast lane on both carriageways, however the works will be carried out from one side.
4.) Illumination - Cameras require a floodlight in advance so they can detect the registration plate. There should be a floodlight post approx. 30-50m in advance of the camera site, if not then it's probably a dummy camera (see below).
5.) Dummy cameras - Do exist and do work to good effect. See 4 above for a way of identifying them. Another way of identifying them is the lack of surface laid cables feeding the cameras. Cables are usually surface laid (rather then buried, due to cost) and visible from a distance (green or black ducting).
6.) In heavy rain/spray the cameras are often not able to read no plate info. Especially at night time due to glare from headlights etc.
7.) Why they are utilised - I noticed many comments above about them being used to protect the workforce, yet often there is nobody working. Understandable comments. Often when travelling through Traffic Management, it looks like miles of road is restrcited with ony work being carried out in one location. Governement legislation controls the layout of the Traffic Management (TM) layouts.
TM is required to have a set amount of TM in place in advance of a works area and after it. The same legislation dictates that if reducing the number of lanes running, you may not merge slow moving traffic into the outside (fast) lanes (this prevents slow moving HGV's from pulling out in front of faster moving vehicles). In this situation a 'switch' is required. Fast traffic must be merged into the slow lanes first, then once at the pace of the slow traffic, redirected back across into the outside lanes. The merging of lanes can only take place over a set distance. All of these rules equate to long sections of traffic management for a small works area.
When it is necessary to reduce lane widths (below 3.4m I think?), which is called 'Narrow Lanes' (Contraflow or hardshoulder running), legislation dictates that the road speed must be reduced to 50mph. This is to protect not only the workforce but also the road user. I'm sure we've all travelled through 'Narrow Lanes' when someone has drifted out their lane? Imagine this at 80mph. The only way to really enforce this reduced speed limit is by using SPECS.
In summary what I'm saying is that there is no rule of thumb for beating the SPECS system, and you are always making assumptions when you try and we all know what assumptions are the mother of, don't we? However, if you really must speed through SPECS sections in an emergency; stick to the inside lane and pray for a lack of floodlights and visible cabling!
On a serious note, before I began my career I had a lot of negativity towards roadworks. Obvioulsy through first hand experience my opinion has changed. Traffic Management is an essential part of the job not only to protect the workforce but also the road user too. All of the projects I have worked on, have vastly improved the section of road and are in the interest of the motorist in the long run, it's just unfortunate that a little bit of pain is necessary in the short term. I've seen some hideous driving and reactions to road works; being spat on, have abuse hurled at me, bottles of definitely not Tango thrown at me, people ignoring diversions and driving through closed carriageways etc etc. Working within TM on a wet dark night with traffic ripping past at 80mph is bloody scary. The restrcitive legislation on Traffic Management is a response to accidents experienced in the past. By reducing the amount of accidents hopefully this legislation can be kept at it's current level and not increased.
I don't object to them in roadworks but they have them on the lovely fast A road to Boston in Lincs for mile after mile.
It nearly killed me sitting at 53 (on the GPS) heading there.
On the way back my front No. plate fell off so I drove somewhat faster and didn't kill any children nor kittens.
It nearly killed me sitting at 53 (on the GPS) heading there.
On the way back my front No. plate fell off so I drove somewhat faster and didn't kill any children nor kittens.
robinessex said:
Drive as fast as you want, when you see a SPECS camera on the horizon, get alongside any convenient HGV, which will screen you from the camera. Accelerate as fast as possible to the next camera. Repeat until out of the danger zone.
Yes thats what I do, even if not over the limitDon't want the B*** following me
Sir_Dave said:
I just tend to sit at 50mpg on the Pogo GPS thoroughout the SPECS area, winding up the bellends in their Audi Tdi's behind me, then drop a couple of cogs and absolutely hoof it as soon as the final camera is overhead.
Childish, but amusing.
It's not just me then Childish, but amusing.
Beats the traffic light GP anyday!3ftandclean said:
I think they work well at keeping the traffic moving but i'm mystified by the people who drive through them at normal speeds. This happens a lot on the M3 junction with the M25 heading south. Do some drivers really believe they work in the same way as GATSOs?
Should people this stupid be driving?
Also I think it's alarming when lorry drivers appear to enjoy having everyone else driving at their speeds and relish the opportunity to tailgate and/or steam up on the inside.
Why is it alarming? On another thread one poster boasted about tailgating soembody at 120mph and the vast majority saw nothing wrong with that at all. Infact slating those who thought it was a bit suspect. IMO Lorries should be able to do at least 62mph (guestimated average speed of 'middle lane hoggers').Should people this stupid be driving?
Also I think it's alarming when lorry drivers appear to enjoy having everyone else driving at their speeds and relish the opportunity to tailgate and/or steam up on the inside.
My biggest concern is that our police are too thick to even attempt curbing the foreign menace on our roads, watching one of those 'Police! Camera! Action!' style programmes last night a hungarian lorry drive cut across the grass verge and hard should because he took the wrong turning, he did the usual shrugging 'yes' 'yes' and bit of hungarian thrown into the mix and was sent on his way because of Police incompetance.
Want to avoid any kind of fines/penalties? Stick a foreign plate on your car, learn a few broken european phrases (I find blending german and french especially confusing for the police, I shouldnt wonder Dutch poses an even greater challenge for our boys in blue), learn to shrug properly whilst having a big smug grin painted on your face and bobs yer uncle, prosecution free motoring.
GreenDog said:
cptsideways said:
Yes 56mph at 3am on a deserted M1, though either of the two of us could have been driving at that time so it was dropped. As photgraphic evidence was a pair of headlights in the dark.
I thought the owner of the car became liable in these circumstances.BrightonEd said:
So chaps, it seems that (anecdotally at least) very very few people actually seem to have been fined. And the people who mention it say that it's someone they knew/ heard about as opposed to them.
So, anyone? Got proof of a fine?
I used to work for the police dealing with these (as in receiving them, not dishing them out). One copper in a hire car definitely got done via SPECS cams through road works. Unfortunately I can't remember the speed to provide a sensible upper limit. So, anyone? Got proof of a fine?
So yes, it does happen.
I'm still amazed, much like previous posters, that people fly past in those zones though. With the low numbers involved I'd suggest it's largely down to stupidity (and maybe the occasional bit of inside knowledge).
Whilst bored driving down the 50mph section of the M1 for what seems like eternity, I have dreamt of driving in a convoy of friends, bumper to bumper, and alternating the lead car after passing each camera.
Never put into practice yet though.
My main issue is I think that 50 mph is too slow to make it safer and actually makes it more dangerous due to grouping and lorries driving up the back of cars. I think it should be 60mph. This is still 20mph slower than most cars on the motorway and 5 mph faster than lorries travel and so even if cars drive on their speedo speed they won't be holding up lorries who then decide to try and pressurise them to go faster.
I think 60mph is a better compromise of likelihood of accident and consequences of accident. 50mph slightly reduces the consequence but massively increases the likelihood.
Never put into practice yet though.
My main issue is I think that 50 mph is too slow to make it safer and actually makes it more dangerous due to grouping and lorries driving up the back of cars. I think it should be 60mph. This is still 20mph slower than most cars on the motorway and 5 mph faster than lorries travel and so even if cars drive on their speedo speed they won't be holding up lorries who then decide to try and pressurise them to go faster.
I think 60mph is a better compromise of likelihood of accident and consequences of accident. 50mph slightly reduces the consequence but massively increases the likelihood.
Edited by XTR2Turbo on Tuesday 15th May 18:36
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