A message to PH from your PH BiB

[mybrainhurts]

Good speech, TB, spot on....

[moneymouth77]

My two cents... Being a cop is tough, there's no denying that. Everyone needs to switch off every now and again, and a forum is a nice place to vent a little. It's not like anything said here will be passed around or 'used as evidence', the whole point is to unwind, whether you're a cop or not. Let them be.

[fatboy18]

Thanks for posting

[TVRWannabee]

I must confess I haven't been able to read the huge response this thread has generated but appreciate the honesty of Dibble and the contribution of the BiB on PH.

It's a tough job at the best of time but I think all the problems stem from the pressures from above - politicians and bureaucrats. I would have thought the BiB on this site do more for public relations than all the guff that comes out of Whitehall IMHO.

Of course one of the things that causes most anger on here is the reliance on speed reduction, which I suspect (after conversation with retired officers)most of the BiB disagree with but can't say.

Bear in mind for an improvement in road safety, I think we would be looking not only better driver education and regular testing but also an increased police presence.

It must be lovely to have pressure from both above and below!

[davidspooner]

davidindevon said:

Just my view based upon my experience ok before anyone blasts me.
I'm sure that there are some decent officers at all levels but I haven't met any other than as described below. I have, however, met more than one instance of directives to officers to achieve higher targets for speeding revenue and reduced limits - that doesn't sound like good news!

My sole experiences are, firstly a pull in by unmarked car and a tongue lashing about my undertaking along a congested section of road (me very contrite) but which thinking about it afterwards I hadn't actually been along that road referred to.
Secondly staring at death as oncoming police car overtakes his line of vehicles on a bend at a combined closing speed of about 130mph - not having seen me going the opposite way and has to force his way into his line of traffic with clouds of smoke and some end to end shunting... that really shook me.
Thirdly I was slowing for a pedestrian on a black/white crossing and was overtaken on the crossing by a marked car (no blues and two's) dangerous or what.

Lastly I had property stolen and telephoned to report it. The officer asked masses of questions including my age, DOB, what was my job, where I worked, how far I travelled to work, my income band, my marital status and family members, licence details, car registration and type plus other questions I can't now remember but only just stopping short of fingerprints and mugshot. I felt like the criminal! Eventually I was asked what had been stolen and I asked when someone would be round to check the scene/fingerprints etc only to be told that nothing would be done and that I was insured! No co-operation there so I now know what to do in future.

In conclusion, my experiences haven't been good - but maybe they might have been better at the hands of those BiB's who post on here. I would certainly urge BiB's to continue posting, particularly if they have some useful/helpful information/advice for all us PH'ers. Is there just a hint of empathy for us I wonder?
Yours, awaiting to be amazed.

I have to agree - I also have negative experiences, happy to think i've been unlucky.

Got broken into, officer takes 4-5 hours to come around to give me a card telling me i've been broken into. Never heard anything since, no interest whatsoever in doing anything about it. I wish my job was as easy!

Traffic officer pulls me over at 11 in the evening to breathalyse me (don't get me wrong - I am VERY happy to get pulled and have the opportunity to give a sample). Slight issues I had were 1) following me 1.5m behind at 40 - how are you supposed to drive in such circumastances for 10 odd mins? 2) Utterly rude officers 3) waiting in the car in the freezing cold for an hour becuase the machine wasn't working and they had to bring another.

Cheers guys.

[LotusACBC]

I'm from the U.S., what does BiB stand for?

[Plotloss]

LotusACBC said:

I'm from the U.S., what does BiB stand for?

Boys in blue.

[Slinky]

LotusACBC said:

I'm from the U.S., what does BiB stand for?

Boys in Blue : http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boy...

[stitched]

BiB experiences I've had have been mainly negative, worst one was when I had a vehicle window smashed and the stereo stolen. Phoned the local nick and was told to leave the vehicle alone as officers would attend, took the tax disc out as it would otherwise have been stolen and when a car arrived 2 weeks later to assign a crime number I was fined 30 quid for failing to display.
Having said that an ex gf of mine in Manchester phoned me in a panic 'cos her current was off his face on something and threatening her and her kids, I phoned the manc police and they were there in minutes.
So whilst I may scream blue murder about all the traffic grief I have to endure I'd rather you remained not only available on the street but also available on here.
Those who do good work please keep it up and those who don't please leave me alone.

[Markymark69]

AJS- said:

As somoene who mostly seems to be on the bashing side of BiB arguments on here, it's really nothing personal. It's almost always the rules and the people who make them that are the problem, rather than the police.

What is frustrating though, is whenever anyone posts something criticising a bit of particularly bad policing, a particularly literal interpretation of the law or a new piece of oppressive and intrusive legislation then a few BiB's on here will leap in with the dull tortologies and truisms familiar to anyone who ever got a speeding ticket. "We don't make the rules" "the law is the law" and perhams worst of all "if you don't break the law you don't have to worry."

Firstly lots of people post on here when they've done something, often pretty silly, and been caught. They want to vent their spleen, get some sympathy or sometimes just clarify the law they have broken. To post these dull and obvious responses again is seen as smug if not down right antagonising.

Secondly, there's a huge section of public opinion, myself included, who think that Britain is turning into a really nasty, illiberal and very intolerant society. The police are on the front line of this and even though I'm sure many privately disagree with this direction they are bound to be criticised with great passion by those who have been on the receiving end and by those who actually care about issues of principle as regards civil liberty and freedom.

Finally there's the aspect that while all of us are asked to sacrifice freedoms for the sake of fighting crime, terrorism and so forth, it seems that when the police actually catch people committing the genuine crimes that nearly everyone agrees are wrong, the courts and the legal system behind them end up handing out punishments which seem trivial in comparisson to the punishments we as law abiding citizens receive for trivial offences. I'm sure most policemen would like to see tougher sentancing as much as I would, but you can't detach the police from the legal system behind them.

To my mind Britain is now at a kind of tipping point where the state is more of a cost than a benefit to the people who live there.

I'm not, and never have been a policeman, and never really given any serious thought to joining. However if I somehow did find myself now as a policeman and in a position where I was asked to man a speed trap or arrest someone for smoking in a pub or hunting with hounds, I would actually rather leave the police force and do something else.

So, if you are a policeman who genuinely cares about not just catching criminals but actually upholding the laws and principles that underpin a free society then don't be too surprised that people occasionally get angry with the police in general.

If however you are the sort of policeman who joined for the thrill of authority, and you expect nothing but praise from people who thank you for being punished and who believe that one vote in 40 million, once every five years, makes every rule unimpeachable and rigid enforcement of it something for which we should be grateful, then I'm sure you'll be able to take it on the chin until all of our IP addresses are registered and we get fixed penalties every time we commit the hate crime of criticising the police. After all, the future of Britain is yours.

Well said.

For my own 10p worth, my opinion of cozzers has been blighted by the couple of wkers i have had to endure on my most recent contact with the police, one a stop in my car and the other over a theft from my business premises.

All i can say, is i think people need to remember it is a well paid job for these people, this is not some saint teresa charity they are running.

And while i am happy to accept that it is a hard job, if you dont like it, or cant take a bit of stick, get another job.

Sadly i have heard one too many, i am a hard done by, misunderstood copper story.

Edited by Markymark69 on Thursday 6th May 19:37

[oj121]

AJS i really cannot agree with you intolerant society comment. If anything then we are really too tolerant on most things in this country these days. I must express that these are my opinions in this reagrd. Other BIBs may think differently as I am pretty juniour to the job, but if we were that intolerant why do people get away with seemingly nothing punishments for serious offences? Why do people get paid considerable sums of money for doing nothing>They would rather get pregnant that get a job etc? Prisons are nice comfy safe places to be and criminals are simply not deterred from returning.(i know this as i was a prison officer and had many a conversations with cons. over this. Even they used to complain the rules we lax and overly in their favour.

Our intolerant society just paid Ian Huntly £100,000 compensation!

Yes there are laws that we like and laws we dont. Its the same with everybody everywhere in the world. Officers in the country rely massively on their discretion and common sense. Their opinions on things may be different to yours BUT they say things for a reason. When not at work i am joe public just like you in most senses of the word and I have been a plain old Joe public for many years but have a little think over what the police officers you see and deal with have seen in their careers as results of things you deem trivial. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but sometimes those opinions feel like they lack a little bit of empathy for those the criticise. I dont want to get into an arguement and that is not my intention so if this offended you or anyone i apologise. I just felt the need to point out a few factors in the statement you made.

[The real Apache]

oj121 said:

Our intolerant society just paid Ian Huntly £100,000 compensation!

has he won?

[oj121]

Yes apparently. Court case cost £1million in total.

[The real Apache]

fk! that is so wrong, I really resent that slime getting my taxes, now Ali Dizaei will get a payout next

[oj121]

I cannot confirm 100% that he won but i was told that was the case by someone else. He was just as angry as you mate.

[TVRWannabee]

Nothing has been said in the press about Huntley winning. The last reports were on the 31 July and I would be surprised if the courts had acted that quickly.

To put in my two penneth worth re the debate. I think the reality is many feel the 'real' crimes are treated too leniently but the last government brought in too many rules and so offences that seem to be treated more harshly.

Witness the fact the new administration are asking which laws should be removed.

[vsonix]

TVRWannabee said:

Witness the fact the new administration are asking which laws should be removed.

they're not doing much so far though. In fact they are proving just as rigid and bullish as the last shower of losers.

[TVRWannabee]

vsonix said:

TVRWannabee said:

Witness the fact the new administration are asking which laws should be removed.

they're not doing much so far though. In fact they are proving just as rigid and bullish as the last shower of losers.

True. Regrettably I think the problem is the bureaucrats who stay no matter who is in 'power.'

[Rich_W]

hora said:

Just a quick post to say thank you for undertaking a difficult job fellas (and ladies). I'd love to be a BiB but don't think I'd reach the standard

Serious queston to the Met guys if possible. Often mused in my head about joining. Probably never will. 32 now so I imagine too old and too many reports of Murderers getting off (via the CPS screw ups) And little old ladies being done for assualt when defending themselves. So a "whats the use" mentality But what IS the standard? What do you have to be able to do to be a Police these days? How long does the training last? Do you have to be a PCSO first nowadays?

I would guess:

No Criminal convictions. But FPN's OK?
Able to run X miles
Not likely to lash out in the face of verbals
Calming personality?
Good grasp of English/Maths
Morbid sense of Humour?

Cheers

Edited by Rich_W on Saturday 15th January 16:17

[CharlieTwo]

Rich_W said:

Serious queston to the Met guys if possible.

Not Met, but can give you some answers as the assessment centre process is national (which is why applications are transferable between Forces)

Rich_W said:

32 now so I imagine too old...

Not at all. I joined with one chap who was 37 and another in his early 40's. A mix of ages is good for the job.

Rich_W said:

...and too many reports of Murderers getting off (via the CPS screw ups)

I think it's less common than you might think - don't forget a Murder case gets alot of column inches and generally gets quite stale in the media because they linger. Because the budget for a Murder investigation is, to all intents, unlimited, the conviction rate is pretty good. Scenes of Crime spend days - or even weeks and months - at a scene picking out every last bit of forensic evidence.

Rich_W said:

And little old ladies being done for assualt when defending themselves.

That is definitely less common than the media makes out. The cases that become public often have only the one side put across. The only sticky ones are often where the person in question effectively admits the offence and that they went beyond what was reasonable. Common sense usually prevails, and way more often than not it is possible as the investigating Officer to persuade someone (either your Sergeant, Inspector or for a bigger job the CPS) to bin it as 'not in the public interest'. Occasionally someone will get one wrong, but if you are capable of making a cogent argument as to why we shouldn't run a job, it can be dealt with sensibly.

Rich_W said:

How long does the training last? Do you have to be a PCSO first nowadays?

Both vary between Forces. Where I work (Home Counties) initial training is 38 weeks, alternating between 2 - 6 weeks classroom education and being out on the street for 4 - 6 weeks at a time, building in blocks (general duties, initial investigations and statement taking, ongoing investigation and interviewing suspects, road traffic/collisions). All Officers are 'Probationers' for the first 2 years after joining. If you under-perform or screw up (either seriously, or too much and fail to improve) your probation may be extended, and you can be dismissed far more easily than a substantive PC.

Lots of Forces are going down the route of wanting to recruit from PCSOs and Special Constables because it saves them a bit of money in having fewer dropouts. If you're not sure about it, consider a bit of time as a Special. Where I work, the days of them being regarded as a bit useless ('hobby bobbies') are going as there is ongoing training and better supervision. Most of the Specials we have at the moment want to make the move to full-time at some point.

Rich_W said:

No Criminal convictions. But FPN's OK?

FPNs almost certainly ok, though there are often restrictions on how many current points one has.
Previous convictions may be accepted - for the Police the whole 'rehabilitation of offenders' restrictions goes out the window and anything - even juvenille - is considered. Essentially, offences that are way in the past are more likely to be accepted, dishonesty offences (theft, fraud) are less likely. In the current climate of extremely limited recruitment they are less likely to accept people with prior convictions as the pool from which to choose is relatively bigger.

Rich_W said:

Able to run X miles

Bleep test - I think it's down to something like 5.4. There is also a dynamic strength test - both push and pull. None of the chaps I did it with had any difficulties - generally hitting twice the target figures. A couple of the ladies struggled.

Rich_W said:

Not likely to lash out in the face of verbals

A thick skin is a definite.

Rich_W said:

Calming personality?

I would suggest the ability to remain calm under pressure is more useful. Not everybody is naturally good at calming others down, I wouldn't say it was a definite bar to the job. If you can remain calm in a pressured situation, that often transfers to others. If you're stressed and it shows through to a person trying to top themselves, it definitely doesn't help! Not remaining calm and objective can also flip a belligerent prisoner into a violent one.

Rich_W said:

Good grasp of English/Maths

There is no requirement for a specific qualification, but there are written tests in both as part of the assessment centre. There is also a logical reasoning section, which obviously requires the ability to read and properly interpret written scenarios. An astonishing number of people fail the assessment centre on the maths. If you are reasonably competent with basic arithmetic, it shouldn't be a problem for you.

Rich_W said:

Morbid sense of Humour?

Definitely. You deal with alot of unpleasant things and sometimes the only way to get through it is with a dark sense of humour - something we share with alot of paramedics. You have to be capable of dealing not only with dead people, but dead, squishy/liquid and smelly people - sometimes you may have to remain in close proximity to such things for quite some time. You have to be able to deal with people who have done some rather unpleasant, unimaginable things and treat them as if they were any other person.

The only way to do this is to de-personalise some of it, and then talk about it with your colleagues afterwards - and the odd joke in very bad taste is sometimes the only way to do it effectively. Partners and non-job friends simply don't understand, so your colleagues become something of a family to you. You'll spend more time with your team than your friends and family and will get to know far too much about them (and in some cases become far too friendly with them outside of work!).

Rich_W said:

What do you have to be able to do to be a Police these days?

Wait for recruitment to reopen, then apply

More seriously, the application process is generally:

• Paper application - paper sift of applicants is carried out. Some are invited for...
• Assessment centre - a day of interviews, role plays, written, maths and reasoning tests

If you get through that, provided you have checked the requirements beforehand and make sure you meet the requirements the rest is generally a given:

• Fitness test
• Medical
• Security vetting (you and family)

Tattoos seem to be a reasonably common failing - generally none on the face or below the elbows, unless specifically accepted (they ask for photos with the application). They accept small, inoffensive designs.

There are pros and cons as with any job - the worst bits are:

• dealing with the dregs and scum of society
• the frustrations of those who fail to take responsibility for themselves and their offspring, usually being funded by those of us who work and pay taxes and often having much nicer things than you
• the far too frequent lenient sentences after a tear-jerking mitigation speech from the defence (that's all bks)
• the far too frequent calls to attend Court where they plead guilty when they see you've all turned up
• the frustration that if you could only lock up the usual twenty or thirty people crime would probably drop 95%
• the disruption to any sense of an orderly family life (though once past probation there are plenty of specialist units that have more family friendly hours/structure if they float your boat)

The good bits:

• sometimes being able to genuinely make a difference to decent people
• saving the occasional life, sometimes by doing something that on reflection may have been a bit risky (stupid?!)
• getting a charge against scum who thought they'd got away with something - because you did an excellent job with your investigation
• seeing some proper criminals get locked up for a decent sentence (yes, it does happen)
• frequent moments of adrenaline
• working with some great people, who become something of an extended family
• coming in to work not knowing what the day will bring, and knowing that any plans you had are probably going out the window
• no two days are the same