RE: UK's longest speed trap goes live
Discussion
Sorry, posted this earlier but wrong place !!.
Here in North Notts we have a SPECS (average speed) set up on a stretch of road which contains not only 7 junctions but also a village with a 30 mph limit !!. Not only does that create artificially high speed differentials, ( those entering the system from side roads for example or those not going as far as the second camera ), but also causes idiots with their cap on back to front to tailgate others through the cameras and then tear off at excessive speeds !!. I have even seen one BMW driver cross over to the opposite side of the road as he went through the camera !!!!. I hesitate to mention that motorcycles don't have a front number plate !!!!.
How can anyone suggest that this is an improvement ??.
Anybody know of "anti-flash" ??.
Here in North Notts we have a SPECS (average speed) set up on a stretch of road which contains not only 7 junctions but also a village with a 30 mph limit !!. Not only does that create artificially high speed differentials, ( those entering the system from side roads for example or those not going as far as the second camera ), but also causes idiots with their cap on back to front to tailgate others through the cameras and then tear off at excessive speeds !!. I have even seen one BMW driver cross over to the opposite side of the road as he went through the camera !!!!. I hesitate to mention that motorcycles don't have a front number plate !!!!.
How can anyone suggest that this is an improvement ??.
Anybody know of "anti-flash" ??.
7db said:
Does anybody know how the triggers are activated? Is it over the limit? The gantries in Nottingham can have roundabouts between them, so would the gangsters operating the cameras decide that a speed lower than the limit is suitable.
They are not triggered as such -- just record all plates through them. Non-offending plate details are deleted, apparently, for your privacy.
Roundabouts usually have the same limit as the roads they are on so there would be no reduction for that. They will have to take the distance as the straight-lined distance.
But if the roundabout is measured as a straight line it is a DELIBERATE OVERESTIMATE of speed. So surely submitting this as the distance on a NIP would be perverting the cause of justice. Or can't a camera partnership be guilty of this?
Is it safer to exceed the speed limit while overtaking? Had this problem driving down to Le Mans a couple of weeks ago where I was quite happy keeping to the speed limit only to come across convoys of lorries doing 10 - 20 ks under the limit. Quite often I found myself doing well over a ton by the time I pulled back in, only to slow down again.
I suppose the only thing to do along this road is to drive like a mad thing then pull over just before the next camera for a cup of tea, or see how fast you can drive round the corners with the cruise control on. How safe do you want to be?
I suppose the only thing to do along this road is to drive like a mad thing then pull over just before the next camera for a cup of tea, or see how fast you can drive round the corners with the cruise control on. How safe do you want to be?
cdp said:
cdp said:
Does anybody know how the triggers are activated? Is it over the limit? The gantries in Nottingham can have roundabouts between them, so would the gangsters operating the cameras decide that a speed lower than the limit is suitable.
They are not triggered as such -- just record all plates through them. Non-offending plate details are deleted, apparently, for your privacy.
Roundabouts usually have the same limit as the roads they are on so there would be no reduction for that. They will have to take the distance as the straight-lined distance.
But if the roundabout is measured as a straight line it is a DELIBERATE OVERESTIMATE of speed. So surely submitting this as the distance on a NIP would be perverting the cause of justice. Or can't a camera partnership be guilty of this?
It underestimates speed. If you travel between the gantries in 1 minute at 60, you travelled a mile in a straight line. If you did not go in a straight line and travelled faster, but still took a minute, the system still thinks you did 60.
This scheme will certainly have an adverse affect on Prestwick airport. It only gets passangers because although it is far from Glasgow, the road is open and normally quiet meaning you can get up and down it quickly.
As for whether this scheme is 'fair' or not is probably not best discussed on a forum like this - its not exactly representative of opinions or knowledge!
As for whether this scheme is 'fair' or not is probably not best discussed on a forum like this - its not exactly representative of opinions or knowledge!
So, when the next accident on this stretch of road occurs after the bloody things are switched on are they going to be removed as quickly as they were installed when it is proved that speeding is not the only contributary factor in accidents? Thought not...
And what 'excuse' is going to be given to relatives of the dead once speeding cannot be used after the next accident?...perhaps people will be forced to admit and accept that driving like a t
t is responsible for a vast majority of deaths on our roads (something that speed cameras cannot monitor nor prevent) - not just speeding.
The focus on 'speed kills' is becoming more laughable by the day...certainly for those profiting from the HUGE amounts of cash generated daily.
Andy
And what 'excuse' is going to be given to relatives of the dead once speeding cannot be used after the next accident?...perhaps people will be forced to admit and accept that driving like a t
t is responsible for a vast majority of deaths on our roads (something that speed cameras cannot monitor nor prevent) - not just speeding. The focus on 'speed kills' is becoming more laughable by the day...certainly for those profiting from the HUGE amounts of cash generated daily.
Andy
On the Northampton section of SPECS, near to Tescos, there are many rear end accidents on one of the slip roads joining the carriageway. On the dual carriageway the final SPECS camera is placed at this point. There are nearly always cars travelling side by side doing the 50 mph limit. Cars wishing to join expect to be allowed to join in, but the car on the inside lane can't move over because he's blocked, causing the car on the slip road to brake hard, sending the following car up his rear! All clever stuff.
this article said:
When driving on the stretch from north of Ayr to south of Girvan, drivers will be kept guessing whether the sector they are in is actually in use
So why are they only switching bits of it on at a time and keeping the motorist guessing? I think we all know why.
There is an opportunity here to demonstrate something that you can gaurantee will not be taken. If the whole damn thing was operational, all the time, along the entire route, so that effectively all speeders got a ticket and it soon became common knowledge that risking speeding on this route and getting nicked was not a gamble, but a certainty. Then by their logic, no-one would speed, and there would be no accidents. They would have made their point and we would all shut up.
But if no-one exceeded the limit ever, there would still be accidents, I wonder how many, they wouldnt want to risk there being the same number would they, so they will only have small sections operational at a time. That way they still raise revenue, and folks will still die and they can continue to use the smokescreen of speed, a good compromise for them.
As always with such restrictions and control of the public, an increasing phenomenum over the past few years, it is the easily targeted law abiding citizen that is caught out for a small misdemeanor, not the excessive speeder that the system purports to target.
It is so much easier to do than catch the untaxed and uninsured lunatic so they leave him alone. (He wont/cant pay if he is caught anyway). Take the gun ban in the mid 90's; all licenced pistols were handed in but of course not the illegal ones. Where do the problems now come from with illegal firearms?
It is so much easier to do than catch the untaxed and uninsured lunatic so they leave him alone. (He wont/cant pay if he is caught anyway). Take the gun ban in the mid 90's; all licenced pistols were handed in but of course not the illegal ones. Where do the problems now come from with illegal firearms?
Notice that this stuff seems to be provided by Motorola. I stopped buying their products years ago.
Also, If you enter a specs area to quickly you can always slow down to a crawl, park up, have a fag or tail gate on the way out. So much for safety. Specs only catch out the unaware.
Boosted
Also, If you enter a specs area to quickly you can always slow down to a crawl, park up, have a fag or tail gate on the way out. So much for safety. Specs only catch out the unaware.
Boosted
"That's why we are determined to do all we can to improve road safety along this stretch and prevent more deaths and serious injuries."
£775k ???...thats all she can do...put up new speed cameras to make some cash...when her new "office" cost the taxpayer £400 million.
Time for a reality check methinks
£775k ???...thats all she can do...put up new speed cameras to make some cash...when her new "office" cost the taxpayer £400 million.
Time for a reality check methinks
Just driven a section of the road for the first time since the cameras went live.... It isn't actually along the entire 26 miles, the very safe dual carriage way that by-passes Ayr has no SPECS on it.
What is really needed is underpasses/flyovers and sliproads on the symmington/hansel village section where several B roads crossover a busy straight (and fast) section of the A77.
Prestwick airport shouldn't be that affected, it only covers about 3 miles north of it and in any case most tourists take the train to Glasgow and it flys mostly Ayrshire locals out.
What is really needed is underpasses/flyovers and sliproads on the symmington/hansel village section where several B roads crossover a busy straight (and fast) section of the A77.
Prestwick airport shouldn't be that affected, it only covers about 3 miles north of it and in any case most tourists take the train to Glasgow and it flys mostly Ayrshire locals out.
Further to my earlier post and several related comments on other sites, I have a "Road Angel II" which I installed to detect accident Blackspots, and also an "RAC Trackstar Plus" fitted by the dealer.
My Quandry is, that when driving the road including the 4 SPECS cameras, ( ie the length divided into three sections ), the Road Angel says I am in an average speed zone throughout all three sections, whereas the Trackstar says I am in average speed zone for only the 1st and 3rd sections !!!.
Can anyone work this out without actually testing it !.
VBR.
My Quandry is, that when driving the road including the 4 SPECS cameras, ( ie the length divided into three sections ), the Road Angel says I am in an average speed zone throughout all three sections, whereas the Trackstar says I am in average speed zone for only the 1st and 3rd sections !!!.
Can anyone work this out without actually testing it !.
VBR.
I live near the A77 and travel on it at least once a week.
The worst sections of the road for accidents were between Fenwick and Glasgow, and to the south of Ayr, mostly the stretch between Girvan and Stranraer.
The section north of Fenwick was a dual carriageway with no central barrier or dividing strip. Nothing but a double white line separated 4 lanes of traffic, most of which was travelling in excess of 60mph. You can see the potential for accidents there.
It was recognised that this was a killer stretch of road and deserved its reputation. Action was taken, and in April, this stretch was bypassed with a brand spanking new motorway, the newest in the UK, supposedly, and everyone heralded the impact (pardon the pun) it would have on reducing the death toll for the A77.
The stretch of road between Girvan and Stranraer, south of Ayr, is mostly single carriageway, narrow in places, with sheer drops in parts, and is heavily populated with trucks and coaches coming from or going to the ferry ports at Cairnryan and Stranraer. This traffic is what causes the frustrations to car drivers and leads to dangerous overtaking manouvers resulting in high accident rates.
The camera system has actually been placed in the safest region of the road, but - co-incidentally - the region with the highest population surrounding it...
In my view, when the new accident figures are released next year and they're undoubtedly lower, the credit will go to the camera system and not the new multi-million pound motorway.
The worst sections of the road for accidents were between Fenwick and Glasgow, and to the south of Ayr, mostly the stretch between Girvan and Stranraer.
The section north of Fenwick was a dual carriageway with no central barrier or dividing strip. Nothing but a double white line separated 4 lanes of traffic, most of which was travelling in excess of 60mph. You can see the potential for accidents there.
It was recognised that this was a killer stretch of road and deserved its reputation. Action was taken, and in April, this stretch was bypassed with a brand spanking new motorway, the newest in the UK, supposedly, and everyone heralded the impact (pardon the pun) it would have on reducing the death toll for the A77.
The stretch of road between Girvan and Stranraer, south of Ayr, is mostly single carriageway, narrow in places, with sheer drops in parts, and is heavily populated with trucks and coaches coming from or going to the ferry ports at Cairnryan and Stranraer. This traffic is what causes the frustrations to car drivers and leads to dangerous overtaking manouvers resulting in high accident rates.
The camera system has actually been placed in the safest region of the road, but - co-incidentally - the region with the highest population surrounding it...
In my view, when the new accident figures are released next year and they're undoubtedly lower, the credit will go to the camera system and not the new multi-million pound motorway.
w00dy said:
Just driven a section of the road for the first time since the cameras went live.... It isn't actually along the entire 26 miles, the very safe dual carriage way that by-passes Ayr has no SPECS on it.
Can I have some more details please? I really need a sketch map showing road type, speed limit approx position of camera clusters and lengths of section.
There's NO REALISTIC POSSIBILITY that they will enforce between clusters. I'm very concerned that they are effectively bullshitting that they might. Bullshit costs lives.
If someone is excessivly speeding when they pass the first SPECS camera (or whatever they are called) then has a fatal accident before reaching the next SPECS camera how are they going to blame this on speed? After all they have not passed the next SPECS and therefore their average speed can not be calculated?
Surely they have shot themselves in the foot here?
>> Edited by chimyellow on Tuesday 19th July 09:16
Surely they have shot themselves in the foot here?
>> Edited by chimyellow on Tuesday 19th July 09:16
This new method of enforcing limits was given considerable coverage in the local TV news when I was on holiday in Scotland last week. While they talked about the high accident rate along this stretch, what they didn't say were the main causes of these accidents. Does anybody have access to such information? From previous posts, it seems as though the design of the road may have a bearing, but as I haven't been there I don't have that knowledge.
As afew of you have mentioned there has been little info given on the cause of crashes on this road.
Some is available on www.a77safetygroup.com/index.cfm/page/9/
the site even admits that speeding is not the main cause of accidents.
the new motorway section that has been built just south of Glasgow was long overdue, this will lead to a significant improvement in safety on this route.
As i have stated before the SPECS system has been installed in some of the safest parts of the road but it is the sections that registered the most people exceeding the speed limit, hence that is where you need the scamers!
Some is available on www.a77safetygroup.com/index.cfm/page/9/
the site even admits that speeding is not the main cause of accidents.
the new motorway section that has been built just south of Glasgow was long overdue, this will lead to a significant improvement in safety on this route.
As i have stated before the SPECS system has been installed in some of the safest parts of the road but it is the sections that registered the most people exceeding the speed limit, hence that is where you need the scamers!
Surely this will create an accident black spot at the site of the second camera as people slow down to keep their average speed down. Some people will try and work out that if they driver at say 90mph for x miles they will ok as long as they go 20 for the remainder. You may even have people stopping on the hard shoulder and waiting. Someone will probably even relase a gadget that will work all this out for you. Infact, it would be pretty easy as just an add-on for most sat-nav systems.
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