National Speeding Week

[Jason F]

Laws are almost invariably based on morality, and of course what Right thinking members of society believe is acceptable... Soo, in theory if the majority believe that higher speed is ok, then this would/could form the basis to change the law.. The bunny huggers ARE in the Minority after all...

[JonRB]

Yes, but its not as simple as that. Although they are a minority, they are a vocal minority, and their arguments are very seductive when taken at a superficial level. Any government wants to be seen to be tackling crime / anti-social behaviour. Speed enforcement is a very quick-fix feel-good (for them, not us!) response. Then the politicians and senior police officers can say "ok, we're having a bit of a problem catching those murderers and burglars, but look at how many lives we've saved by stopping people speeding". (I know, I know, does speed really kill?) It would take a very brave government indeed to raise the speed limit, mainly because "speed kills" has been drummed into people so much now that a raise in the limit would instantly be regarded as irresponsible by many. Wrongly, of course. Personally, I think we should have a graded license. You get a 'C' license when you pass your test, which limits you to a certain class of car. After a few years and extra driver training, you could get a 'B' license, which would relax things somewhat. Finally, with extensive advanced driver training, you could get your 'A' license (sounds a bit Gran Turismo, eh? ), which would allow you to buy and insure a high performance car. Of course, that doesn't address the speeding issue. It would probably be unfeasible to have different speed limits for different license holders. But I do think the idea of only allowing advanced drivers to drive advanced cars has merit. Its never going to happen though, as it would cost money to implement and run, rather than generating income like speed enforcement does. Having said all that though, some of the above could be achieved simply by insurance companies refusing to insure drivers of performance vehicles unless they have taken advanced driver training. I think I got a 5% discount this year for being a member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists. Make that more like 25% and I can see people rushing to do advanced driver training, which has to be a good thing surely?

[MattC]

quote:Yes, but its not as simple as that. Although they are a minority, they are a vocal minority, and their arguments are very seductive when taken at a superficial level. Any government wants to be seen to be tackling crime / anti-social behaviour. Speed enforcement is a very quick-fix feel-good (for them, not us!) response.

Sadly this sort of political spin seems to be on the up in this country. Just look at the recent annual GCSE pass marks bun-fight. Retired examiner points out that the pass-marks have dropped year-on-year. Commitee-in-power defends with "Ah, but you can't say that, because you are belittling the efforts of the kids, and thus putting a damper on the future of our country. Doesn't matter if your figures are spot on. Yah-boo sucks!" And so on....

[Dave_H]

JonRB, Totally agree with you, in fact a few months ago some friends and I all talked about the same thing (Driver grade to type of car to lower insurance issue. That would stop the inexperienced jumping from a Micra to a Marcos. For example: About a year or so there was a feature on Driven where a performance driving instructor would give hints and tips regarding driving badly, or in snow/ice etc to people nominated by wifes/friends etc. This particular feature had a guy who drove something like a 1600 Ford Orion and had come into some money and bought a RWD chipped Seirra Cosworth. This chap had NO CLUE as to why in the wet when cornering, if he accelerated hard he would face the other way! Why did the insurance company take him on? I'll tell you why, he was 40 odd, he'd been pottering around in his Orion, had full no claims, so in the insurers eyes he was fine! but where was the advance driving experience? It not right is it?

[Jason F]

JonRB, I know that they are a vocal minority, but why the hell aren`t we a Vocal Majority ?!?!?!!? There is certainly more and more media coverage of the Motor Con of this Govt..Hopefully we can get some more pressure on `em and get some reasonable traffic laws ( Traffic Wardens with Powers of Arrest ?!?!?!? Jeez, they are Mini Hitlers now, what happens then !?!?) Dave_H, I agree with you, cause I reckon that a fair few Tivs go off the roads cause of people driving them after say their 'performance' Golf Gti or whatever and pushing up my premium.. It works for Motorbikes, so why not.. Edited by Jason F on Wednesday 29th August 21:11

[smeagol]

You're right it does work for motorbikes, one point to mention though. Main dealers of motorbikes tend to be more responsible to who they sell to. For example a friend of mine bought a new high performance bike, and the dealer then said "Thank you sir, you can pick your bike up at the free performance riders course organised on Saturday..." I thought this was a brilliant idea (so did my friend even though he had ridden for years, the idea of a 'thrown in' performance course with the delivery of his bike showed they cared!). It would be nice to see the same from High perfomance car manufacturers. Would make the customer feel special and get good publicity for future sales.

[JonRB]

I heard a rumour a while back (very likely apocryphal) that Peter Wheeler was considering making prospective customers of the Speed 12 or maybe the Tuscan R (I forget which) prove they could drive it before letting them buy it. If you failed, TVR kept your deposit and told you to bugger off. Doesn't really have the ring of truth about it (actually, for Peter, it sounds in character ) but does serve as an interesting illustration of what we've been discussing - namely only letting those with sufficient training drive performance vehicles. The most depressing thing is that this could really work and could promote road safety. But its not a cash cow, so it "ain't gonna happen, boy".

[mel]

I bet the bike scheme was underwritten by the manufacturer, they are still going through a hard time and are trying all the gags they can to justify much higher UK prices than the rest of Europe (particulary with Honda being dragged through Brussels), still it is nice idea and certainly would help almost all riders, was it a Honda by any chance ?? As for cars I think similar schemes are endorsed by certainly both Audi (buy a TT and about 6 weeks later you get and invite to a track day) which might be too late if you've already crashed by then, and BMW if you bought a new M5 they always used to fly you out to the factory for a bit of tution and see your car prior to delivery, (don't know if they still do I've gone off German ) But yes bring on the lessons and lets all stop off in the pub on the way home (only joking smeagol)

[smeagol]

lol Mel nice one! I think it was a Honda but it was a while ago.

[Jason F]

Porsche also offer a Track Day to new 911 owners. Why should a manufacturer be responsible for the idiot getting a vehicle more powerful than he can handle ? Answer : Dead people/Crashes = Bad publicity = less sales it ain`t done for charity or your health y`know (Cynical, aren`t I?) And JonRB, I think it was a Track Day you had to prove you could handle the power of the car, don`t know about keeping the Deposit though ( slightly illegal methinks ) If 4*4 dealers would make buyers prove they can Park in only One space, Sales would plummet... Edited by Jason F on Thursday 30th August 20:54

[Dave_H]

quote: If 4*4 dealers would make buyers prove they can Park in only One space, Sales would plummet...

If ever there were an area for driver skill improvement - that's the first place to start

[mel]

quote:[quote] If 4*4 dealers would make buyers prove they can Park in only One space, Sales would plummet...

If ever there were an area for driver skill improvement - that's the first place to start Well having bought new cars from both TVR & Landrover I can comment on this. The Freelander was bought as an everyday license preserver and for site visits so yes is does see atleast unmade up roads if not true off road. However a few weeks after it was delivered I got an invite to go and "play in the mud" in either my car or the dealers demo cars with lessons being given by the bods from Landrover with lunch and all the corporate machine wheeled out to boot, good fun but bugger all use for 95% of owners as they didn't want to get their new toys dirty and yes half of them were school runners. However it was a nice touch from the dealer a good fun day and not really necessary as everyone there had bought one already. However my friendly local TVR dealer 6 weeks after delivery also invited me in for a day, they changed the oil tightened a few nuts and bolts and charged me £500 for the honour.....Hmmmm I must say I know which one is my favorite car but the better dealer maybe not !!!

[campbell]

What is all of this talk of driver education in NATIONAL SPEEDING WEEK ???? I think driver education is a very good idea for performance cars and it could be an option the car garage could offer there costomers to learn how to get the best from ther 1.1L VW polo or scoda But the problem it you could take a driver to the education but you can't make him learn. At the end of the day some of these drivers just remain numpties and its these drivers you see blasting down any straight road and crall around every corners, then they proceed to site so close to your bumper that they might as well site in the boot, considering they proberly end up there if you hit the bracks to hard. Rant over (where's me bottle) THERE IT IS

[Wingco]

I was early for my next meeting in Bristol and drove at an exact 70 along the M4 from Reading to Bristol. I overtook 13 Cars 8 on a Car transporter!! I was overtaken by all sizes of trucks even a 40 tonner. So much for the speedlimits its unworkable and nobody takes any notice.