ANPR at the pump.....
Discussion
No don't lock it, it's a good thread! No arguments, but you do get to see the different views that will be aired on this very topic.
My personal view is that if done right, I am all in favour of it. That as well as statutory ID cards.
The sheer numbers of illegals on our streets is unbeleiveable. Whether it's illegal immigrants or stolen cars or banned drivers or x or x (the list is endless). Anything that makes an attempt at driving this number down is, for me (Mr average 23yr old non-illegal citizen) a move in the right direction....I stress the first thing I said though..."if done properly".
I once saw one of those road wars type programs (where they follow Traffic Police). Always like watching them. They had an ANPR system in their car and said they had to turn it off while driving round london because it just wouldn't stop beeping at them!! I think that's a worrying state of affairs.
Let's put the question another way to the doubters and "Big Brother is on it's way" type comments here.....ok, no ANPR linked to DVLA database. How do YOU propose to solve the stolen cars, illegal drivers etc. on our roads today? Oh, and before you say more traffic police, that's not allowed because (as said above by the doubters) you'd stop too many innocent people.
Good thread though this - enjoyed reading it
My personal view is that if done right, I am all in favour of it. That as well as statutory ID cards.
The sheer numbers of illegals on our streets is unbeleiveable. Whether it's illegal immigrants or stolen cars or banned drivers or x or x (the list is endless). Anything that makes an attempt at driving this number down is, for me (Mr average 23yr old non-illegal citizen) a move in the right direction....I stress the first thing I said though..."if done properly".
I once saw one of those road wars type programs (where they follow Traffic Police). Always like watching them. They had an ANPR system in their car and said they had to turn it off while driving round london because it just wouldn't stop beeping at them!! I think that's a worrying state of affairs.
Let's put the question another way to the doubters and "Big Brother is on it's way" type comments here.....ok, no ANPR linked to DVLA database. How do YOU propose to solve the stolen cars, illegal drivers etc. on our roads today? Oh, and before you say more traffic police, that's not allowed because (as said above by the doubters) you'd stop too many innocent people.
Good thread though this - enjoyed reading it
tonyhetherington said:
My personal view is that if done right, I am all in favour of it. That as well as statutory ID cards.
And there is the problem. If it's done right then we can all sleep in our beds watched over by benign big brother.
But no government computer project has ever worked properly, and no system can ever be completely uncorruptable (I know they've made all sorts of claims about how unforgeable ID cards would be. Do you really believe it??), there will always be abuses and errors. I for one don't find that prospect heartening.
That's a fair point, debating something which may not be around for a decade is fruitless!
It raises a good topic though I think - on one side you have the authorities trying to stop crime, reduce illegals etc. On the other side you have people who don't want to accept measures that they feel "infringe" upon their freedom.
I personally am of the "I have nothing to hide so I don't mind" type lobby. If they track me....so what. (The only thing I don't want them to track is my speed!). I say that tongue in cheek but of course I'm sure many will jump on the thread and say "ahhh.....but that's where it will end. First ANPR systems, then they'll be tracking your speed EVERYWHERE". No, I don't think they will. Though this I do say seriously......if they did, they would certainly turn me (and I'm sure most people on this site) into criminals [be it through not installing the system, not registering my car etc].
People love the country we live in, but perhaps don't realise why it's the country it is. (though let me state categorically now, I think there are some right prats in power in this country, be it government, opposition, police, etc.)
It raises a good topic though I think - on one side you have the authorities trying to stop crime, reduce illegals etc. On the other side you have people who don't want to accept measures that they feel "infringe" upon their freedom.
I personally am of the "I have nothing to hide so I don't mind" type lobby. If they track me....so what. (The only thing I don't want them to track is my speed!). I say that tongue in cheek but of course I'm sure many will jump on the thread and say "ahhh.....but that's where it will end. First ANPR systems, then they'll be tracking your speed EVERYWHERE". No, I don't think they will. Though this I do say seriously......if they did, they would certainly turn me (and I'm sure most people on this site) into criminals [be it through not installing the system, not registering my car etc].
People love the country we live in, but perhaps don't realise why it's the country it is. (though let me state categorically now, I think there are some right prats in power in this country, be it government, opposition, police, etc.)
tonyhetherington said:
(though let me state categorically now, I think there are some right prats in power in this country, be it government, opposition, police, etc.)
Don't stop there Tony..
Fire service, Ambulance Service, Education, Social Services, Information Technology, Public transport Executives, Motor Industries, Engineering, Retail, Sales, etc etc etc..
Street
So you do value your privacy, you just draw the line in a different place to some of us.
This is the thin end of the wedge at its finest - we already have greater CCTV coverage in this country than anywhere else in the world - this is eroding them further.
As to this scheme; I think it's ludicrous - what if my car is cloned? I already know three people personally who've had cloned cars or numberplates nicked, so it's not at all unlikely. I don't want people deciding what I can buy and when based on a database that could be full of god knows what.
This is the thin end of the wedge at its finest - we already have greater CCTV coverage in this country than anywhere else in the world - this is eroding them further.
As to this scheme; I think it's ludicrous - what if my car is cloned? I already know three people personally who've had cloned cars or numberplates nicked, so it's not at all unlikely. I don't want people deciding what I can buy and when based on a database that could be full of god knows what.
FastShow said:
As to this scheme; I think it's ludicrous - what if my car is cloned? I already know three people personally who've had cloned cars or numberplates nicked, so it's not at all unlikely.
I made this point in a lengthy story in a prevous page but nobody responded.
Here's the question then:
How many cloned cars has ANPR caught this year?
or another one:
How many cloned cars pass an average ANPR van during it's shift
Gareth
>> Edited by g_attrill on Thursday 15th July 12:29
FastShow said:
So you do value your privacy, you just draw the line in a different place to some of us.
This is the thin end of the wedge at its finest - we already have greater CCTV coverage in this country than anywhere else in the world - this is eroding them further.
As to this scheme; I think it's ludicrous - what if my car is cloned? I already know three people personally who've had cloned cars or numberplates nicked, so it's not at all unlikely. I don't want people deciding what I can buy and when based on a database that could be full of god knows what.
There's a difference between cctv in your own home and ANPR's on the roads and in petrol stations...
Anyway..if it comes in, you'll just have to live with them...like we do with Speed cameras.....
Street"Do you exceed the speed limit"
"Yes, I often do 85mph"
"So you think it's ok to drive at 250mph on the M25 then do you?"
Well that's the same sort of argument as saying the government are going to put a CCTV camera in my bedroom. It's just taking things to the complete (dare I say ridiculous) extreme.
I COMPLETELY understand the worry of problems, mis-interpretation, but not those of people thinking the powers are becoming all seeing all knowing.
What are the other options?
"Yes, I often do 85mph"
"So you think it's ok to drive at 250mph on the M25 then do you?"
Well that's the same sort of argument as saying the government are going to put a CCTV camera in my bedroom. It's just taking things to the complete (dare I say ridiculous) extreme.
I COMPLETELY understand the worry of problems, mis-interpretation, but not those of people thinking the powers are becoming all seeing all knowing.
What are the other options?
g_attrill said:
How many cloned cars has ANPR caught this year?
or another one:
How many cloned cars pass an average ANPR van during it's shift
It's not perfect. But let's look at the benefits and disbenefits. How many uninsured, untaxed, unlicensed cars/drivers has ANPR caught this year? And do you think that this is worth doing?
My answer is a firm "Yes". As someone who stands around £1000 out of pocket as a result of two non-fault accidents with uninsured drivers in the last 4 years, I will actively and loudly campaign for greater use of ANPR on the roads in my area. I don't have much truck with civil liberties people, and none of the arguments posted here have done anything to make me change my mind.
Oli.
tonyhetherington said:
What are the other options?
1/ a written constitution
2/ then from this a set of rules as to what is meant in practice with the introduction of each new technology
This would mean that we wouldn't keep getting "scope creep" with things like Speed Cameras, civilians doing police jobs, etc etc
Whenever anyone says "If it just saves one life, then it's worth it", I say not if it badly affects Society as a whole. The dictatorships of the 20th century all started in similar was, with surveillance introduced in small stages, with official doublespeak (spin) saying how every negative was in fact a positive & how truly innocent citizens need not worry. Who was it that said "The road to hell is paved with best intentions"? I truly believe that this is the case here...
Streetcop said:
"You are judged by the company you keep"
Really?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3208310.stm
I hope not.
Absolutely...
We, the police, have been judged by certain elements of the community based solely on the findings of that program. The fact that the 3 or 4 scum that the program 'outed' were more Joe Public than police officers due to the fact they were detected in the first few weeks of appointment, means very little in the eyes of the populous.
So the saying, "You're judged by the company you keep" is absolutely true and thank for pointing out this fine example.
They were found to be racist and kicked out of the job. Quite rightly so... The same behaviour goes on in many organisations, where it affects people of ethnic backgrounds. However, you don't hear about any such findings, because it's not newsworthy....
Let's not all turn into media puppets....
Street
We, the police, have been judged by certain elements of the community based solely on the findings of that program. The fact that the 3 or 4 scum that the program 'outed' were more Joe Public than police officers due to the fact they were detected in the first few weeks of appointment, means very little in the eyes of the populous.
So the saying, "You're judged by the company you keep" is absolutely true and thank for pointing out this fine example.
They were found to be racist and kicked out of the job. Quite rightly so... The same behaviour goes on in many organisations, where it affects people of ethnic backgrounds. However, you don't hear about any such findings, because it's not newsworthy....
Let's not all turn into media puppets....
Street
Streetcop said:
Not in my county...
Where are they..?
Street
Bradford apparently.....
http://ichuddersfield.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/tm_objectid=14426516%26method=full%26siteid=50060%26headline=number%2dplate%2dchecks-name_page.html
I still dont see how it will help once the thieves know the cameras are there and change their plates...?
>> Edited by r32 on Thursday 15th July 15:07
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