A story of dishonesty, daylight robbery, disgust and deceit.

[tvrgit]

Dizeee said:

I just don't know what to do. Their letter back seems to blaze and confident, teasing me to go to court if I wish, as they rigorously defend all their claims etc etc

No they don't. AFAIK, none of this has been tested in court. The clampers can't afford a court test case. They work on fear and threats - if a legal precedent was set (most likely not in their favour) they would lose the threat. They won't go to court. They dare not.

Don't hestitate. Make that claim.

My only concern would be that they already operate right at the edge of the law - I fear that some of them would not have the slightest qualms about some other retribution, if they have your address...

[RacerMDR]

ok - I have questions

1. Is an Argos Angle Grinder man enough to cut the clamp off?
2. Would Bolt cutters get it off?
3. What would be the legality in simply winching YOUR car onto a trailer and driving it away?

I'm assuming ape clamp scum are waiting on site to steal your cash anyway - making all of these options difficult?

[Munter]

sleep envy said:

Zod said:

Munter said:

And if you do cut it off they'll have the law on their side (if they prove it was you).

has anyone ever been prosecuted for this? I suspect not. Given they have unlawfully clamped the car, a trespass, you are perfectly within your rights to remove their property from your property, even if doing so results in damage to their property.

The reason most people don't do this I suspect is that they are menaced by the shaven-headed apes who do the clamping.

can they physically stop you from damaging their property?

would it be seen as criminal damage?

Yes it's criminal damage I believe. If you can remove it without damage you are free to do so (as the lock picking above).

[Battenburg Bob]

rypt said:

10 Pence Short said:

Battenburg Bob said:

rypt said:

If the vehicle is towed illegally it is theft to be fair; and if it is clamped illegally it is breaking that law that says you cannot deny someone access to a public highway or similar.
The fact that the police are spineless gits non-withstanding that is.

Edited by rypt on Friday 17th July 12:39

It's not theft! Theft has to have an intention to permanently deprive. You're also way out with regard to 'deny someone access to a public highway'.

If you're going to try and give 'advice' or have a rant, at least try and get some of your facts right.

Seconded.


Sadly these things are civil issues, not to mention very frustrating.

One course of action might have been to refuse to pay and ask the police to attend to prevent a breach of the peace. That way the clamper would probably find themselves getting a friendly word in their ear.

So I can go and tow away any car I please and it is not theft? Is that what you are saying, because towing a car illegally and then impounding it MUST be theft.

If it's not, would you let me tow away your car just for fun then and you can claim it back via a civil case rather than via calling the police.

Edited by rypt on Friday 17th July 13:24

Tell you what..nip down to your library, take out a copy of Blackstones and have some bedtime reading. You might learn something!

[Gallen]

I got clamped after my permit had slipped down on the dash, even though I could read it

- the clamper said he couldn't read it as it was "obscured" and so illegally parked.

I then covered his tax disc with his wiper and said does that mean you're car's untaxed - at which point he sarcastically laughed.

I even quoted it to him what it said on my permit but he refused to remove the clamp unless I paid in full and got in his car to drive off.

at which point I reached in through his open window and swiped his keys.

He phoned the police saying he had been "assaulted". I really couldnt give a sh*t what happened at this stage and was very close to sorting this guy out on principal, of which I would have had no remorse.

I phoned the police and asked that the tape be kept as he said during the conversation that I did have a ticket but it was "difficult to read".

2 x police cars come with 3 policemen and 1 policewoman.

I remained calm and was polite to the police (tried not to smile as had a tooth missing at the time and looked a bit "rough" which is not me)... I explained what had happened and at no point had I so much have touched the guy - I admitted I had swiped the keys to make a point but had returned them.

I had 2 witnesses to all of this and suggested that the police refer to cctv in the car park if they needed to.

2 police spoke to me, 2 spoke to the clamper (fat lanky bd, thick as st probably about 50 odd).

They said to avoid any more of their time being wasted that the clamp should be removed as although my ticket may appear difficult to read, it was infact there and readable all the same.

The clamper removed the clamp and I drove home, albeit with a smug grin.

Clampers are low life cowardly scum who hide behind small print - to be honest, most of them deserve a clump - of which I hope they get delivered to them during at least 1 point in their careers.

[JustinP1]

zcacogp said:

Dizzee,

Yes, it is good. They get about 2 weeks to defend the claim, otherwise you win by default.

If they do defend the claim, you can take it to court if you wish (costs another £60 or so.)

If they don't turn up to court, you win by default. If they do turn up, you have enough evidence to push your claim against them.

They also pay your costs for going to court.

As a claimant, the process is intended to be slightly inclined in your favour where the defendant is a larger body (like a clamping company.)

If they don't pay, you can ask the court to send baliffs (costs a bit more again, but you get all the costs back.)

If more people knew about the small claims court, organisations like clamping companies simply wouldn't exist.


Oli.

OP: This is all correct, take note.

The only other thing is that they can file an acknowledgement of service which gives them in total 28 days to file a defence.

Apart from that though, it is pretty straightforward and you'll get your money back.

[Dizeee]

RacerMDR said:

ok - I have questions

1. Is an Argos Angle Grinder man enough to cut the clamp off?
2. Would Bolt cutters get it off?
3. What would be the legality in simply winching YOUR car onto a trailer and driving it away?

I'm assuming ape clamp scum are waiting on site to steal your cash anyway - making all of these options difficult?

Clamper not initially present, but all of the above is criminal damage Im afraid, and theft in number 3 of the clamp, or at least grounds to suspect it in the first instance.

[sleep envy]

Dizeee said:

Clamper not initially present, but all of the above is criminal damage Im afraid, and theft in number 3 of the clamp, or at least grounds to suspect it in the first instance.

even if they had unlawfully clamped the car?

[mp3manager]

Dizeee said:

/snip rant
The UK = fked.

I think that should be....

England = fked

If you don't want to be clamped either rightly or wrongly...move to a civilised country like Scotland.

[Mr Green]

Dizeee said:

So, park there for 10 minutes in which time I enter the store from the front entrance, order a flat screen TV and return to the rear to collect it. And my car has been clamped. Call up the number, along they come having been waiting around the corner and charge me £150 to remove the clamp. Don't care about why I was parked there, drive off and sit at the bottom of the road again to catch another innocent victim.

Go back to Argos with the TV under your arm and tell them you can no longer afford to pay for it due to the £150 clamping charge. Ask them if they will pay it, don't expect them to so be prepared to leave without the TV.
If you really want to keep the tele get a friend to buy it again the day after, it won't affect your chances in the small claims court.

[Carfiend]

As soon as they shrugged their shoulders I could of gone back in and asked for my money back and written to their head office.

Just for starters.

[Dizeee]

sleep envy said:

Dizeee said:

Clamper not initially present, but all of the above is criminal damage Im afraid, and theft in number 3 of the clamp, or at least grounds to suspect it in the first instance.

even if they had unlawfully clamped the car?

It's still their property and the question as to whether it is unlawful or not would not come out until after a long protracted appeals process. Cops aren't judges. The system allows it.

[sleep envy]

Dizeee said:

It's still their property and the question as to whether it is unlawful or not would not come out until after a long protracted appeals process. Cops aren't judges. The system allows it.

so you could effectively play them at their own game and clamp them?

[Munter]

sleep envy said:

Dizeee said:

It's still their property and the question as to whether it is unlawful or not would not come out until after a long protracted appeals process. Cops aren't judges. The system allows it.

so you could effectively play them at their own game and clamp them?

Only if you have a clampers licence and a contract to do so on that piece of land.

[RacerMDR]

Dizeee said:

RacerMDR said:

ok - I have questions

1. Is an Argos Angle Grinder man enough to cut the clamp off?
2. Would Bolt cutters get it off?
3. What would be the legality in simply winching YOUR car onto a trailer and driving it away?

I'm assuming ape clamp scum are waiting on site to steal your cash anyway - making all of these options difficult?

Clamper not initially present, but all of the above is criminal damage Im afraid, and theft in number 3 of the clamp, or at least grounds to suspect it in the first instance.

and what is the fine for criminal damage? 50 quid? Cheaper and more satisying than been mugged with menaces.

What about if you put a knife through my own tyre.....? it deflates........would the clamp come off then without being damaged?

I'd rather pay for a new tyre than give the money to these bds.

Its never happened to me - i'm just preparing myself

[Thejimreaper]

I know exactly how you feel Jim. I got clamped about 5 years ago after parking in a pub car park for less than a minute whilst I crossed the road to put a letter in a post box. I came back and he had the clamp out and was putting it on. He must have been watching the carpark from a hidden spot. I was so frustrated and angry. I made a big fuss and got very worked up. Eventually he called his 'boss' and reduced the fine from £150 to £75. At the time I still didnt really have that to pay him as I had just moved into a new place. Going to a cash point and handing it over made me want to punch the bloke in the face. I wrote down his reg number from his new corsa van with it magnetic signage. I have to admit it was tempting to find out where it was registered to and get my own back. To be fair there were signs up saying clamping in the area, but I was in such a rush I just didnt look. You sound like you have a good case so take the advice and go to the small claims court mate. Would be interesting to knowif they really do come and fight their corner. Those tossers must make a fortune.

Clampers = scum

[Dizeee]

I just went back to Argos to collect more copies of their letter, they have ben so good, stating they gave me permission to park there, were aware I was there, was only there for a few minutes, was on CCTV and that they could not give permits to everyone etc etc

However I spotted the clampers van parked at the end of a long driveway of cars, rear windows blacked out and facing the car park. Noted the reg.

[Dizeee]

I have now also emailed the manager of the firm.

I am really struggling to deal with my anger over this. My anger has not dwelled all day, I just cannot understand how people get away with it. I knew it went on, but it now having happened to me, I just can't take it.

I dare type the idea's that are going through my head at the moment.

[vonhosen]

Dizeee said:

I would like to share with you a lovely story.

It typifies the state of the UK and the way things are today. There is no hope from my story, just gloom, and another victim to the unregulated UK clamping operators who have robbed me.

Nice sunny day, July 4th. Saturday. I attend my local Argos. At the rear of the store are a couple of parking spaces, Argos's spaces, clearly signed and labelled as "Argos Customer Collection Point" with the blue logo signs, 2 of them. The car park is small and also has other spaces dotted around for residents of flats there. Generally you need a permit to park there for long periods, but the two Argos spaces are clearly labelled as their customer collection points and sit right outside their back roller shutter *whereby goods are bought out).

So, park there for 10 minutes in which time I enter the store from the front entrance, order a flat screen TV and return to the rear to collect it. And my car has been clamped. Call up the number, along they come having been waiting around the corner and charge me £150 to remove the clamp. Don't care about why I was parked there, drive off and sit at the bottom of the road again to catch another innocent victim.

I obtain a letter from the manager of Argos stating I was there to collect goods and had parked there as instructed to by their signage, he types one out and gives it to me being very apologetic, but it's not "down to them". I type a short appeal letter along the lines of the above. Receive a letter back this morning stating no, I won't get my money back.

It doesn't matter what is said, or done, or how it is perceived, the simple fact of the matter is I was clamped UNLAWFULLY and have been charged monies for NOTHING. I know how and why they get away with it, but having now been a victim of it myself, I find myself pacing around the house tamping mad., I just cannot and will not accept this - who do they think they are? If I had taken the piss in some way or tried it on, fair enough, but, I have parked in a signposted, allocated bay for a store in which I have entered as a genuine paying customer, to come out ten minutes later to collect the goods and find myself impounded and owing money to company I have never heard of? Even Argos themselves backed me up, typing a headed letter proclaiming my right to park there.

I just don't know what to do. Their letter back seems to blaze and confident, teasing me to go to court if I wish, as they rigorously defend all their claims etc etc

The UK = fked.

I guess they'll say that the terms & conditions of use for the parking space, is that it is for collection of goods only. They've watched you walk straight past the collection point at the back & go into the store at the front. You won't be able to produce evidence that you had previously purchased & had gone into the store to collect. In fact the times on your receipt will show that you entered the store to shop/purchase, purchasing the TV after parking.

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 17th July 15:14

[Nick_F]

Don't say or e-mail anything that you wouldn't want to emerge during the course of your small claims hearing.

Try to dwell on the fact that you're not like them.