S 172 conviction - truly shafted !
Discussion
streetcop said:
There are then others, for whatever reason, who try to squirm their way out of it, usually through lies and deceit. If we are to prosecute those who roll over and have their belly tickled, then we must prosecute the more vociferous and obstructive ones too.
lies and deceit is just the same as the scamera partnerships employ every day streetcop - arranging for speed limits to be arbitrarily reduced, hiding like robbers and thieves, pinging people 20 yards inside the speed limit then pretending that its all about safety. Whats good for the goose .......!
I think you agree that the Scamera partnerships put an inordinaye amount of effort into hounding citizens over trivial speeding offences. Yet the CPS and the mags let off scrotes that you and your colleagues have maybe risked your safety to bring them to book. So why do you advocate even more effort into crushing those motorists who rightly and fairly refuse to go along with this system ?
Streetcop said:
I think the government of the day..whatever day..will look towards speeding as a target..either to appease groups like 'BRAKE' or to collect revenue...Consequenlty anything that will overcome the government reaching targets will either be abolished or overcome.
Am ex-BRAKE member and have my reasons - though will not deny their achievements and contributions in other road safety areas which are more important than the speed issue.
Streetcop said:
Personally, although I'm against cameras and such like..I'm also witness to the fact that 99% of people who are caught committing a motoring offence, hold their hands up and take the punishment.
This is due to wording of the NIP. My colleague received one - which he is still contesting ... 34mph in 30mph zone - and was pinged near the hospital as he was responding to call back to save a life . According to the blurb - he has to identify the driver, sign it or face whopping fine etc instead... Different if caught red-handed by yourself - who can at least judge circumstances and conditions that bit better and use common sense in most cases. But scams have been known to make mistakes as well.
In any case - British justice should allow the accused to state their case and seek to mitigate consequences as much as possible. This is also denied to UK citizens. Those in EU at least see the evidence against them before prosecution - or so Pa-in-law (Swiss) and relatives based in Germany tell me.
Streetcop said:
There are then others, for whatever reason, who try to squirm their way out of it, usually through lies and deceit. If we are to prosecute those who roll over and have their belly tickled, then we must prosecute the more vociferous and obstructive ones too.
Street
I think it is pretty deceitful of a scamship to tell me there is speed cam on such and such a road because X people have been killed there when no such occurrence has happened. One road in Cambs comes to mind. Whole family checked out the official website last March - because one of us holds anniversary bash then. We checked the mobile scams schedule - which claimed justification for said scam was due to fact that 188 people had died on this road on this particular date on past 4 consecutive years.
Not one of us has ever been held up in accident clear up on any stretch of this road on this particular date since the bloke got married umpteen years ago. The bloke is doctor in one of the major hospitals down there. Most of the guys present were collegeagues from both main hospitals there - none of them were recalled to major emergency relating to hundreds of casualties on that particular date either. And what about Ings .... scamerati hidden in foliage just yards from speed limit change. (Limit was decided by 7 blokes in a pub there according to local history as well and enforced by bloke who has no idea of local history ..... or the area if you care to read through the nonsense he posts on his forum...) Incidentally - Ings is relatively safe village - with NSL on each side of village. Majority are slowing on approach - Scamerati are pinging before you reach 40mph lollipop. We make sure we are at 40mph a certain point where we know range will hit us...
Gosh our family BiB is useful bloke sometimes .... Think some people just might have cause to complain - and rest would do same if they were more in the know...
Surprising how few do not tune into these sites ...
Richard C said:
I think you agree that the Scamera partnerships put an inordinaye amount of effort into hounding citizens over trivial speeding offences. Yet the CPS and the mags let off scrotes that you and your colleagues have maybe risked your safety to bring them to book. So why do you advocate even more effort into crushing those motorists who rightly and fairly refuse to go along with this system ?
Think our Street goes by letter of the law ....
OTT speeding/careless/dangerous/dwd driving - fair enough - that is dangerous to others. These normally end up in the courts and accused gets to have his say.
Just over blips, scamerati mistakes - Joe Public gets no say - and that is wrong. More power to those brave enough to make a stand and get common sense back into the law.
Mad Moggie said:
Majority are slowing on approach - Scamerati are pinging before you reach 40mph lollipop.
Oh No they aren't!
Mad Moggie said:
We make sure we are at 40mph a certain point where we know range will hit us...
Good for you, that is what we want. Well done.
Mad Moggie said:
Think some people just might have cause to complain - and rest would do same if they were more in the know...
Surprising how few do not tune into these sites ...
Well let them send in their complaints, better still you send in yours with the proof if you have it.
Two points on the reliability and accuracy of speed cameras and speed recording equipment:
About nine years ago someone I know persuaded the local BiB to loan us a radar gun so we could check our racing car's straightline speed during a pre-race meeting test at one of the country's well know tracks.
In fact, we had conned them, we wanted to test the gun for accuracy; you see the race car had very accurate datalogging on board!
First of all, the gun was fixed on a stand, pointing towards the oncoming cars. Speeds were logged lap by lap and then compared to the datalogging. The gun was very optimistic, as much as 20% over the actual speed of the car. But worryingly, it consistently produced a speed when there was actually nothing there at all!
That brings me up to date and to my second point... not far from where I live, along a busy four lane single carriageway, there are a number of Gatso cameras in the 50 mph speed limit. This is a section of road that is very straight for about a mile. On several occasions at various times of the day I have been travelling towards Manchester and been able to clearly see the camera on the opposite side of the road, facing towards me, from about three-quarters of a mile away and with nothing - no other traffic - between me and that camera, and it has gone off! Now could it be a supercharged snail too small for me to see or it could the cam be registering planes rtaking off from nearby Manchester Airport, or is it a bird? How can these things be set off be nothing? And if they can, how reliable and accurate are they?
About nine years ago someone I know persuaded the local BiB to loan us a radar gun so we could check our racing car's straightline speed during a pre-race meeting test at one of the country's well know tracks.
In fact, we had conned them, we wanted to test the gun for accuracy; you see the race car had very accurate datalogging on board!
First of all, the gun was fixed on a stand, pointing towards the oncoming cars. Speeds were logged lap by lap and then compared to the datalogging. The gun was very optimistic, as much as 20% over the actual speed of the car. But worryingly, it consistently produced a speed when there was actually nothing there at all! That brings me up to date and to my second point... not far from where I live, along a busy four lane single carriageway, there are a number of Gatso cameras in the 50 mph speed limit. This is a section of road that is very straight for about a mile. On several occasions at various times of the day I have been travelling towards Manchester and been able to clearly see the camera on the opposite side of the road, facing towards me, from about three-quarters of a mile away and with nothing - no other traffic - between me and that camera, and it has gone off! Now could it be a supercharged snail too small for me to see or it could the cam be registering planes rtaking off from nearby Manchester Airport, or is it a bird? How can these things be set off be nothing? And if they can, how reliable and accurate are they?
Quinny said:
Having never been in this position,
How do they collect the fine? Do you just write a cheque there and then? or can you pay in 1.00 a week instalments, like the chavs seem to be able to?
In my case (£750 fine and £175 costs !) I was asked if I could pay it immediately. I asked for some more time and suggested 3 months which was accepted by the Mags.
Streetcop said:
Afternoon Tim..
There is a camera on the A62 just into Huddersfield from Saddleworth that does just the same...
The problem is disproving a camera at court..It's virtually impossible.
Street
Get pinged, go back and knock it down. Thats the best way to deal with an Inaccurate camera...
deltaf said:
Afternoon Tim..
There is a camera on the A62 just into Huddersfield from Saddleworth that does just the same...
The problem is disproving a camera at court..It's virtually impossible.
Street
Get pinged, go back and knock it down. Thats the best way to deal with an Inaccurate camera...
Let me see now... something can be totally inaccurate, but it is instrumental on choosing someones fate at court?
Surely some mistake to allow these malfunctioning robots to have such power?
Bring back the TC! infact I have really noticed how lawless the roads are getting, and how rude some drivers are now. AFter all, if they aren't speeding, it must be ok to not indicate, or pull out on you...
I despair I really do.
Still, out for a
in a mo ! Drive safe.
C
lunarscope said:
Having never been in this position,
How do they collect the fine? Do you just write a cheque there and then? or can you pay in 1.00 a week instalments, like the chavs seem to be able to?
In my case (£750 fine and £175 costs !) I was asked if I could pay it immediately. I asked for some more time and suggested 3 months which was accepted by the Mags.
Crazy system. Many years ago I had a reasonably large some of money stolen. I new who had done it i'd seen him take it (out of my van). Eventually he coughed to it having been arrested some months later for a more serious offence. Went to court and he was convicted. I recieved compensation equalling the amount taken. That was 10 years ago and I'm still waiting. The amount of fines he had were been paid off at something like 50p per week! The annoying thing was that the money he was using was either obtained gratis from the great british tax payer or illegally! I some times like to send a letter off to the courts to see if i've reached the top of the list and might get some of MY money back! I see the tosser at least once a week and i would love to stove the little twats head in; however i have rather a lot to lose so my hand is stayed....
Whatever you do Daz, I'd certainly keep all documentation about the case in the hope that a future ruling may bring this Nation in line with civilised practice, I think "M@H" got it about right in his post, such a scenario would be laughed out of court for ANY other offence.
Oh! and Streetcop, the system as I understand it is that "you" provide the evidence for the prosecution rather than force people to "confess" under duress, that was abolished in the year 1215. Try it with a scrote and see how you get on.
Oh! and Streetcop, the system as I understand it is that "you" provide the evidence for the prosecution rather than force people to "confess" under duress, that was abolished in the year 1215. Try it with a scrote and see how you get on.
Well Street, First made law in 1215 with the signing of the Magna Carter to outlaw extracting a confession by torture, it has been added to many times to include other forms of duress. By Cromwell around 1645, by the Victorians and finally being enshrined in the European Convention on Human Rights. So it is plainly "ILLEGAL".
If you think that it is OK to use duress of any form, then I suggest that you are NOT the right man for the job of Policeman.
If you think that it is OK to use duress of any form, then I suggest that you are NOT the right man for the job of Policeman.
Lunarscope.
Are you legally qualified?
Did you represent yourself?
Have you ever disputed a court case before?
Were you prepared properly with a speech after you were found guilty to mitigate your case?
Defending yourself and standing up for the common man is very commendable and is fantastic when it works!
When it does not
......
My commiserations at the outcome!
Are you legally qualified?
Did you represent yourself?
Have you ever disputed a court case before?
Were you prepared properly with a speech after you were found guilty to mitigate your case?
Defending yourself and standing up for the common man is very commendable and is fantastic when it works!
When it does not
...... My commiserations at the outcome!
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