139mph biker banned and fined

[318ti]

i get paid if you kill yourself or not. Rather you didn't though as less paperwork.
That's all i'm saying. Takes officers away from working on crime related stuff. If we are away from that then we read all the moaning on here about police not dealing with crime.
Also takes us away from traffic related stuff. The government compensate by putting scameras out.

So all in all i think it's best if people don't do silly things.

[Wacky Racer]

318ti said:

i get paid if you kill yourself or not. Rather you didn't though as less paperwork. That's all i'm saying. Takes officers away from working on crime related stuff. If we are away from that then we read all the moaning on here about police not dealing with crime. Also takes us away from traffic related stuff. The government compensate by putting scameras out. So all in all i think it's best if people don't do silly things.

[cazzo]

318ti said:

Oh and each fatal costs the police on average £1000000 to deal with. Money that could be better spent.

318ti,

Still waiting for an explanation of why/how it costs (on average) a Million quid for a fatal.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain how this figure is arrived at.

I am having some problems believing this figure, is it true or is it just politicalspeak/exaggeration/aloadofbo##ocks

An explanation would be appreciated.

[SpudGunner]

I think he may have added an extra zero in by mistake £100,000 sounds more like it to me.

My point is if you want to act like a total di**head and wheelie on your motorbike then you should do it on a race track.

Maybe you have been lucky and not come off at 100mph when pulling a wheelie before but dont give me that cr*p that its cos you are so skilled. There are plenty of other factors out there which could cause you to come off like oil on the road and end up killing yourself and costing the tax payer sack fulls of money to scrape your remains off the road.

I am sure plenty of us as KIDS did wheelies on our push bikes and came off the back, I know I did. But some of us still seem to be in our kid phase and need to do some growing up.

Got nothing against speeding when its safe to do so, but pulling wheelies is just plain stupid.

[cazzo]

SpudGunner said:

I think he may have added an extra zero in by mistake £100,000 sounds more like it to me.

Maybe, maybe not but even if the claimed figure is 'only' £100,000 then I would still like to know how that figure is reached.

But if £1,000,000 (or whatever) is being claimed then we have a right to know how/why.

I'm asking this out of genuine interest not just to stir things up - could 318ti or anyone else in the know put forward some figures or other justification for us to see - I mean if it is true maybe it will make us think or even slow down (less fatals = less taxes?)

I'm all ears and waiting.....

[Apache]

Spudgunner, you admit to 'enjoying a bit of speed' yourself so can't you see that the moral argument is a bit lost?
We all have our thresholds with regards our abilities, risk, what is acceptable etc so someone wheelying a bike is beyond your limit of acceptability. An old codger had a go at me recently for parking in the 'pickup' area in Tescos, technically I was wrong but more to the point I had overstepped his limit of acceptability. If the guy is not doing it in traffic or endangering anyone and has the ability then he doesn't overstep my limits.

>> Edited by Apache on Sunday 9th November 12:57

[318ti]

The traffic bods and the accident investigation told me at one i went to.

I also copied this out of an book published for a charity that has something to do with caring for people. It's called BASIC.

"In 1998, 3,137 persons were killed in road traffic accidents in the United Kingdom and 240,026 persons were injured. The cost to the society of one road traffic accident fatal casualty was £1,207,670 and £141,490 for one seriously injured."




>> Edited by 318ti on Sunday 9th November 18:28

[SpudGunner]

Apache, I can see what you are saying, I just have seen too many people on motorbikes pulling wheelies in busy traffic - they obviously think its clever. Lets be realistic, it would be pretty easy to lose control when you are only on 1 wheel so why risk it?

I just cant see the mentality when people say "I was pulling a wheelie at 100mph"? and? so what? its a bit like driving your car on 2 wheels on the roads, yes it could be done (prob need a ramp) but its the sort of thing thats best left to private roads/tracks.

As regards 318's comments about cost, well ROSPA's web site does come up with similar huge figures to those he quoted. <a href="http://www.rospa.org.uk/cms/STORE/Road%20Safety/2_engineering_files/engineering.htm" target="_blank">ROSPA</a>

[Apache]

Spud, to be honest when you are giving it large on one wheel you are extremely focused. Modern Crotch Rockets are at the extreme end of available performance on the roads and will always be abused/pushed much to the consternation of the general motorist.

[g_attrill]

318ti said:

"In 1998, 3,137 persons were killed in road traffic accidents in the United Kingdom and 240,026 persons were injured. The cost to the society of one road traffic accident fatal casualty was £1,207,670 and £141,490 for one seriously injured."

They are not police costs then.

They were compiled by the Department of Health and for fatals comprise:

Lost output: 399,540
Medical/ambulance: 4,730
Pain, grief, suffering: 794,870
Police/administration: 1,220
Damage to property:
- Motorways 10,804
- rural roads 8,494
- urban roads 5,007
Total: 1,207,670

You can see that only 1.1% of the £1m figure are tangible costs, and most of this is physical damage which the highways/council recover from the insurer, and even the NHS is recovering their costs now. The only real losses quoted are £1,200 for police/admin costs.

F*ck knows where the £794k comes from - this is certainly not what the Criminal Injuries board pays out when people are murdered.

I can see the "lost output" but this is a fairly bland figure that looks like a GDP related figure and obviously drastically differs on an accident by accident basis. eg. for a single man in their twenties (like me) nobody will suffer a finanical loss, but an uninsured bread-winning 35yo with children will cause significant hardship.

Gareth

[318ti]

I don't care who the costs are spread between. All i know is that it is tax payers money. Still spending our hard earnt money on dealing with a fatal as opposed to other things.

[cazzo]

g_attrill said:

Lost output: 399,540 Medical/ambulance: 4,730 Pain, grief, suffering: 794,870 Police/administration: 1,220 Damage to property: - Motorways 10,804 - rural roads 8,494 - urban roads 5,007 Total: 1,207,670 F*ck knows where the £794k comes from - this is certainly not what the Criminal Injuries board pays out when people are murdered.

Mmmmnn......

Not quite the same as £1,000,000 police costs or even to the tax payer - I would imagine medical costs and damage can probably be claimed from the insurance companies and how can you put a price on Pain, grief & suffering? this could range between very little (bu**er all) or very high but is not IMHO a cost to society but to family etc. which although an emotive subject should NOT be included in the figures.


And as pointed out it is far greater than any sum paid out in compensation for criminal cases etc.

I think this is a clear case of 'PoliticalSpeak', Government propaganda - like 'Speed Kills'...well someone told me it does so it must be true and anyway it says so on the back of a bus and on roadsigns.

Frankly I think it is a load of Bo**ocks.

[Apache]

318ti said:

I don't care who the costs are spread between. All i know is that it is tax payers money. Still spending our hard earnt money on dealing with a fatal as opposed to other things.

Pain, grief, suffering: £794,870, tax payers money? no wonder you lack credability.

[anonymous-user]

This seems to be about the best source of information for this that I can find.

www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_504570.hcsp

Overall, it seems as though figures have been plucked out of mid air to make it seem horrific. The fact is that all but a few grands worth is either theoretical cost or can be reclaimed from the insurance company, assuming the driver is insured, but that's another story...

[rich 36]

Pain, grief, suffering: £794,870, tax payers money? no wonder you lack credability.

How does that work exactly then,
flowers and a grieving co-ordinator praps'

[318ti]

so we still end up paying for it through our insurance premiums?

[northernboy]

Apache said:

have you been drinking NB?

Yes. Then, and now.

Hence the probably unnecessary anger.

I'm a bit liek Otto in A Fish called Wanda, with my 'Don't call me stupid" complex.

It comes from when I came down to Oxford, as a very able physicist, and had people assumed, based on my accent, that I was probably studying land management, and really there only to play football.

It still gets to me a bit when people who can't keep up with a simple logical argument strike out with a "moron" type comment in place of rational thought, and somehow think that they've scored some kind of valid point.

I should rise above it, I know...

[northernboy]

318ti said:

I don't care who the costs are spread between. All i know is that it is tax payers money. Still spending our hard earnt money on dealing with a fatal as opposed to other things.

Well then, you can shove that argument away then. If you want to look at costs, I've paid enough in to scrape me up many tens of times. It's not your hard earned supporting me, but, very likely, it's my hard earned subsidising you.

[Apache]

northernboy said:

318ti said: I don't care who the costs are spread between. All i know is that it is tax payers money. Still spending our hard earnt money on dealing with a fatal as opposed to other things. Well then, you can shove that argument away then. If you want to look at costs, I've paid enough in to scrape me up many tens of times. It's not your hard earned supporting me, but, very likely, it's my hard earned subsidising you.

ouch!

[madant69]

northernboy said:

Well then, you can shove that argument away then. If you want to look at costs, I've paid enough in to scrape me up many tens of times. It's not your hard earned supporting me, but, very likely, it's my hard earned subsidising you.

Blimey, so you've paid at least a million pounds in tax assuming that you're talking about being seriously injured and over £100,000,000 if it's post-fatal scrapings you're alluding to?? Wowsers...

Ah hang on though, you did say you were a physicist, not a mathematician