2012 MOT rules and Sports CATs

[stargazer30]

Yes I did a search and can't find a clear answer.

Questions;
1. For the new 2012 MOT rules will a car pass if the main cat is replaced with a sports CAT?
2. If a decat is fitted the rest of the year could the insurance be voided due to the new MOT rules.

Thanks

[shoggoth1]

A de-cat has been an MOT fail for quite some time. If you had an accident and a de-cat was discovered then the car is not road legal and insurance could be voided - this has been the case for years.

As long as the sports cat is declared and the car is passing the MOT then I doubt there would be an issue. As above though, if it's an undeclared modification and you have an accident (and it's noticed) then expect insurance to be voided.

[Ekona]

A decat does not make a car illegal to use on the road, it just means it will (on newer cars) fail the MOT. Very different things.

If your insurer has been notified you're running a decat, then why would they refuse cover?

[daz3210]

When the CAT on my X Type Diesel failed, one mechanic suggested just knocking the insides out of it. When I asked if it was legal, he simply said an MOT does not (Currently at the time) check operation of the CAT, so it was perfectly legal.

Similarly, if I replace a failed CAT with an 'aftermarket' version, does that mean I have to similarly inform insurers in case it gives a performance advantage? Where do you draw the line?

[BusaMK]

If however your original CAT outer is still in place in your exhaust but just happens to not have any internals, well, they must have just burnt away, honest. . AH, you beat me to it Daz.

[stargazer30]

Quick call to my local friendly MOT tester.

Decat = MOT fail
Sports CAT will pass if it passes the emissions test and has a kite mark.

I guess that means welded in sports CATs/Anything with "not for road use" or the like is a fail.

[daz3210]

stargazer30 said:

Quick call to my local friendly MOT tester.

Decat = MOT fail
Sports CAT will pass if it passes the emissions test and has a kite mark.

I guess that means welded in sports CATs/Anything with "not for road use" or the like is a fail.

Does it have to have a kite mark? If it passes the emissions, why is it not legal?

Or does the kite mark equate to 'a tax has been paid'?

[stargazer30]

daz3210 said:

stargazer30 said:

Quick call to my local friendly MOT tester.

Decat = MOT fail
Sports CAT will pass if it passes the emissions test and has a kite mark.

I guess that means welded in sports CATs/Anything with "not for road use" or the like is a fail.

Does it have to have a kite mark? If it passes the emissions, why is it not legal?

Or does the kite mark equate to 'a tax has been paid'?

I didn't ask but I think its due to the wording of the new rules that says OEM cat or words to that affect. Its to make sure the CAT is of decent quality I suspose.

[shoggoth1]

Ekona said:

A decat does not make a car illegal to use on the road, it just means it will (on newer cars) fail the MOT. Very different things.

If your insurer has been notified you're running a decat, then why would they refuse cover?

If a car has no MOT (if one is required) then it's an offence to use it on public roads. If it's had a de-cat then it fails the MOT. I fail to see a difference.

However, fair enough, if you're insurer knows you're running a de-cat then it's a declared modification and shouldn't be a problem. Though that does mean that they are complicit in you 'circumventing' the MOT i.e. you're putting cats in temporarily for the test and then removing them. For your insurance to be valid you need a valid MOT - but they know you're invalidating it?

[2slo]

How about a cat fitted with no internals and the car has sufficiently low emmissions to pass the MOT anyway? The MOT tester only checks to see if a cat is fitted he doesn't check its operation so that would be a pass even though the empty cat was doing nothing except add to the weight of the vehicle.

[Wozy68]

stargazer30 said:

Yes I did a search and can't find a clear answer.

Questions;
1. For the new 2012 MOT rules will a car pass if the main cat is replaced with a sports CAT?
2. If a decat is fitted the rest of the year could the insurance be voided due to the new MOT rules.

Two things I wanted to change on my old air cooled 911. I guess it comes down to the MOT tester, but even so the insurance angle now worries me after reading the above replies.

Thanks

I actually asked the same question on the Porsche section a while ago.

Nobody on there seemed to bothered about it. Reading through the new rules that came into force this year two things bothered me however. If I read correctly.

1. OE Cats only, ie not modified or non OE Cats = fail
2. OE airbag steering wheel, ie if car was originally fitted with an airbag wheel, installing a non airbag wheel = fail.

[daz3210]

Wonder how they will go on with the Elise then? Cat is hidden behind a panel/diffuser and to the best of my knowledge, they aren't allowed to remove bits at the MOT, only test whats visible.

If it passes emissions.....

[Krikkit]

Wozy68 said:

2. OE airbag steering wheel, ie if car was originally fitted with an airbag wheel, installing a non airbag wheel = fail.

Unless the airbag is removed completely, in which case it should pass without problems. The new tests are designed to make sure that fitted safety systems are maintained and operational, not to kill modifications.

[Durzel]

daz3210 said:

If it passes emissions.....

^ This.

What the rules say and what actually happens down your local MOT tester are often some distance apart, and that's not even taking into consideration MOT testers who are mates who will just stick another car on the emissions tester anyway.

Long story short, the new legislation states that if a car was homologated in the UK with a catalytic converter, then it must have a cat irrespective of whether it would pass without one, or with sports cats, or whatever. In practice however I would be amazed if your average MOT tester knows what is OE on a given car, unless they are a petrolhead/familiar with the marque, and will only care what the emissions output says, as has always been the case.

For reference - I've had aftermarket HIDs on my second car for at least 3 years now, and it's sailed through MOTs at both main dealers and backstreet garages even though they aren't self-levelling and don't have headlight washers, which has been a fail for some time I believe?

Edited by Durzel on Friday 8th June 15:53

[rigga]

Durzel said:

For reference - I've had aftermarket HIDs on my second car for at least 3 years now, and it's sailed through MOTs at both main dealers and backstreet garages even though they aren't self-levelling and don't have headlight washers, which has been a fail for some time I believe?

Edited by Durzel on Friday 8th June 15:53

like a lot of mot rules and regs I beluive aftermarket hids don't need self leveling and washers to be legal,just the factory fitted originals that do ........

Least that was the consensus in the tiv section a while back .

[zombeh]

Wozy68 said:

If I read correctly.

1. OE Cats only, ie not modified or non OE Cats = fail

What the MOT testers manual actually says is
[quote]Method of Inspection
3. On vehicles that qualify for a full cat emissions test, check the presence of the catalytic converter
Reason for Rejection
3. A catalytic converter missing where one was fitted as standard

So if the car has to undergo a cat emissions test and was fitted with a cat then it will fail if it doesn't have one. So that's any car* first used after august 92 if it's in the database and anything first used after august 95 whether it's in there or not. If it doesn't have to pass a cat test then it doesn't need to have a cat. Doesn't matter what cat it is, just whether it's there or not, doesn't matter whether the cat works or not as long as it passes the relevant emissions test (though the number of cars that can pass the cat test without a cat is probably extremely small).

[quote]2. OE airbag steering wheel, ie if car was originally fitted with an airbag wheel, installing a non airbag wheel = fail.

Yes, that's correct, all airbags originally fitted must be present and not obviously defective. It is not clear to me whether replacing the original steering wheel with a different one that also has an airbag is a fail I suspect it depends on whether it's obviously not the original one.

Reason for Rejection is given as [quote]An airbag obviously missing or defective.

• car or engine, whichever is older, it is up to the owner of the car being tested to prove the age of the engine if they're claiming they've fitted one that doesn't have to meet the same emissions test the car would with its original engine

[matchmaker]

shoggoth1 said:

Ekona said:

A decat does not make a car illegal to use on the road, it just means it will (on newer cars) fail the MOT. Very different things.

If your insurer has been notified you're running a decat, then why would they refuse cover?

If a car has no MOT (if one is required) then it's an offence to use it on public roads. If it's had a de-cat then it fails the MOT. I fail to see a difference.

Try harder. Car passes MOT with cat. Legal to use. Cat removed. Still legal to use as it has a current MOT.

[Who me ?]

daz3210 said:

Wonder how they will go on with the Elise then? Cat is hidden behind a panel/diffuser and to the best of my knowledge, they aren't allowed to remove bits at the MOT, only test whats visible.

If it passes emissions.....

Not just the Elise - my little oilburner has a cover under the front part of the enginewhich hides the Cat . I'd suggest that other models have likewise ,and possibly a lot of other makes .

[Wozy68]

zombeh said:

• car or engine, whichever is older, it is up to the owner of the car being tested to prove the age of the engine if they're claiming they've fitted one that doesn't have to meet the same emissions test the car would with its original engine

Ok. Thanks for clearing that up, gutted ref the non airbag steering wheel. So much for the steering wheel i wanted for me 993 that hasn't an airbag.

Also after reading some replies, it's a worry ref possible insurance issues and non compliance with the MOT

Edited by Wozy68 on Friday 8th June 22:51

[daz3210]

Did anyone see the report the other day about a bloke who died after inhaling the fumes from his airbag after a non injury accident?

So airbags are obviously safe then?

Why should we not have a choice about sitting with a small amount of semtex 2 feet from our face?