What would you give points for?

[Mr Whippy]

Hello

A few months ago I was involved in a car accident.

Fortunately now it's been resolved, and the otehr party has been found to have been driving without due care, recieved 5 points, and a £200 fine.

The thing is, I know people who have recieved similar for running into the back of people at lights and the like.

In my case, I was driving along in my car, following another vehicle at say 45-50mph along a snaking flat road. Fine day and clear visibility. Car infront was white and mine was red, so easily visible. Along came a pair of motorbikes, knee-down stylee towards me... The first bike passed me, close to the centre line, but the second one ended up about 1.6m into my carriageway and hit me head on... Fortunately I moved over enough (right onto the verge) and got clipped on my front wing. My roof was rippled, the front offside wheel was pushed right under the car, the A pillar and door were crushed back a good 30-40cm.
The biker managed to escape with a damaged right arm, and bad bruising, and I got a badly bruised foot and pretty shaken up.
Both the bike and my car were written off, mine was Category C... pretty bad...

Now, since I know people who get 3 points for speeding alone, and driving without due care and attention when ramming into someone at lights at say 10mph.

Is it normal to drive like this and recieve just 5 points and 200 quid fine...

Dunno how the whole system works, what do you have to do to qualify for driving without due care or careless driving etc?

Cheers

Dave

[mel]

I'd say the bike rider probably learnt more from the accident and injuries than from the points afterwards and will slow day and ride with more care in the future. In the case of speeding I'd say you are more likely to slow down and be more carefull due to your points than due to the offence. Surely thats the whole idea, to get people to learn.

[Dwight VanDriver]

Its up to the Magistrates, on hearing the evidence,they can then award between 3 - 11 points. Obviously the more points awarded would reflect on how they judged the severity of the accident on the evidence presented and mitigation from the Defence.

DVD

[swilly]

To be honest the points system is quite ridiculous and unfair.

If an offence is considered serious enough to lose your licence then points become irrelevant.

If an offence is considered minor and does not warrant a loss of licence then, why is it that commiting a number of these minor offences, that are not considered serious enough to lose your licence, can result in eaxctly that?

If you want to punish, apply a fine or loss of licence.

Points just appear to be a double-whammy punishment, that exist no where else in the legal system.

[towman]

Just read a NiP I received for a driver in one of my Taxis. I can get three points if I dont send it back quick enough!

What Bollox

Steve

[swilly]

towman said:

Just read a NiP I received for a driver in one of my Taxis. I can get three points if I dont send it back quick enough! What Bollox Steve

And if you happened to have 9 points already you'd be looking at losing your licence.......for commiting what crime????????

Its draconian and ridiculous.

[Dwight VanDriver]

I think you will find Steve that the 3 points could come with not complying with S.172 (name and shame) which shoulkd be returnmed in 28 days?

DVD

[Mr Whippy]

Well, to add more to it, friends of the rider at the scene informed me that he'd already had a few accidents this year, but not this bad...

He was third party insured on a brand new 750cc sports bike worth about £4500-5000 so my girlfriend informs me (into bikes a bit)...

I'm wondering if he already had six points, and got 5 to take him to 11 points. Simpy now he has to be a golden boy when he gets on the road again, or he'll loose his lisence!?!?

I suppose I can just be glad nothing worse happened, but the car infront was only a small older Corsa with a young woman driving and two kids in the back. She swerved to avoid the second bike, but the bike was not as far over when it went past her.
It could have been alot more nasty than it was...

Surely driving that fast when cars were clearly coming the other way and loosing control in such a fashion is a pretty bad mistake to make?
I really hope they don't let drivers who drive with such inconsideration back on the road after driving like that!

Cheers for the repiles so far...

Dave

[Rob_the_Sparky]

You get banned in a car for speeding on an MWay yet only 5 points for ramming a car when on a bike?!

Is it me or do bikers get away with a lot more than cars...

Rob

[racketman]

if you take that you drive prob at least 6 days a week, maybe everyday,and your allowed 4 "misdemeanours" in 3 years under the totting up system before you potentially lose your livelyhood then i think its a ridiculous system!

it works out at around under 0.5% of your total time in drives(prob less as most people make 2 journeys a day).

i think anything within 30% of the speed limit should be dealt with a fixed penalty but no points.

IMHO people who commit dangerous driving and due care offences should really be the ones to throw the book at not minor speeding offences.

[Mr Whippy]

Well thats the thing. JJC has just got a 14 day ban, fine and all sorts, for driving at 108mph on the motorway.
I'm quite sure that he wasn't endangering anyone except himself, and as we all know, going 70mph can be leathal if your a stupid driver... so 108mph can be totally safe in good conditions!

So he gets banned and things, a fairly big fine etc, for *potential* danger...

Someone actually DOES come of their side of the road loosing control for going too fast playing catchup with their biker mate, and rams a car off the road, writes two vehicles off, and puts himself in hospital and injures the other person (me)...

He gets fook all in comparison, and he's actually done damage and harmed third parties etc!


What is going on in this coutry these days?
Letting the shite drivers get off lightly so they can add to the bad road statistics and allow the government to tighten their grip even more!?!?
Hmmmm, conspiracy theory?

Dave

[KITT]

I personally think in the majority of cases giving points for accidents is not necessary. My reasoning is that when you've been in an accident it teaches you A LOT more about what to do next time than a fine and some points. Your insurance will automatically go up because of the claim (regardless of fault) so points would just add insult to injury.

[Mr Whippy]

By having an accident you do learn a lesson, but by no means should the law be more slack because you have in essence punished yourself and learned a lesson.

What does that say for the punishment consistent minor speeders who never hurt anyone get, but have lost their lisence, and livelihood in some cases, for doing nothing more than going 10% more than a "limit" several times.


I suppose the whole new "speeding" thing has caused a disparity in punishments. The old style road accidents and such go on being punished in the same ways as they have been, but the "speeders" now get a disproportionate punishment relative to more serious road accidents.

To get more points and fine AND a ban for going 108mph on a dual carriageway, compared to actually coming off the road and crashing into other traffic and properly causing an RTA is just daft now I think about it...

Personal anquish of causing an accident aside of course...

Dave

[jacko lah]

mel said:

I'd say the bike rider probably learnt more from the accident and injuries than from the points afterwards and will slow day and ride with more care in the future. In the case of speeding I'd say you are more likely to slow down and be more carefull due to your points than due to the offence. Surely thats the whole idea, to get people to learn.

I tend to agree, years ago my mate killed a bloke when he lost control of a Marina Coupe 1.3 automatic and skidded on to the pavement on a bend. (I was the only witness - in the passenger seat).

Some months later I was the main prosecution witness for his trial for driving with out due care and attention. Amazingly he got off. But so what. He was a completely different person anyway, being racked with guilt and having night terrors. (It took me 3 days before I could cross the road without assistance)

I know he did not suffer like the blokes wife and kids, but the whole thing was an accident.

In the case of your mad bikers, near death experiences are worth a 1000 points. and a 3 week ban

[gone]

In Court Yesterday.

Last July, I saw a man walking away from a car parked on a verge by a roundabout at about 0100 a.m. It had a smashed front offside wheel.

I asked him if it was his car and he replied "yes" (he had the keys for it).

I asked him if he had just crashed it and he replied "yes" and then told me that he had beed drinking in the pub all day and this was inevitable because he had been doing it for years.

I breath tested him = positive = arrest = 106 Microgrammes in 100 ML of breath (limit 35)

He is put in cell and then interviewed 10 hours later when sober. He is a professional lorry driver and has had time to think about his problem whilst sobering.

Interview = story of crashing car on way home from work at about 4 pm. Secured car and decided to walk 4 miles home from the crash. Having got home decided to have a 'wee drinky' . at Midnight realises that he has left his phone in car so walks back to get it when I arrive.

This case has been to court 3 times already and adjouned because of defence request. Yesterday they copped a plea bargain to reduce the charge from driving to 'in charge'

Stipendiary Magistrate took his explanation about the phone over my initial interview when he was pissed and I caught him with the car (engine hot) because he pleaded guilty to save the court time.

Result = 10 points and £400 fine.

This man was 106 UG % in breath which is 4X the limit and had just crashed!!!!!

I said to him on leaving the court "That was a right result mate, Just make sure you don't drive too fast past a yellow box!"

[aprisa]

Take note of the above, this was the decision of a District Judge (trained Legal Professional) and not a Magistrate.

Just a thought for those knocking the Magistrates on another thread.(not that their decisions are all correct just pointing out the alternatives!)

Nick

[Size Nine Elm]

Mr Whippy said:

Someone actually DOES come of their side of the road loosing control for going too fast playing catchup with their biker mate, and rams a car off the road, writes two vehicles off, and puts himself in hospital and injures the other person (me)... He gets fook all in comparison, and he's actually done damage and harmed third parties etc!

IIRC from the news a biker did that last year into a car driven by Liam Fox... took the corner too fast and went head on into the oncoming traffic.

Biker died.

I guess any (survivable) accident makes you review your personal error margins, because they were obviously wrong before.

Bit like a NIP

[Mr Whippy]

Thanks again for the replies and stories... it's goog to hear what other people have had to put up with and cope with, brings my lucky escape into perspective!

I hope the biker learned his lesson then

Dave