Am I turning into my Dad?
Discussion
I don't know if I'm getting old..or pedantic (perish the thought)...
Today, I stopped a man for a minor motoring law infringement. He alighted from his car, and walking towards my car, threw his cigarette on the floor.
I briefly introduced myself and then told the man to pick up the cigarette as he was littering. The man didn't hesitate, but the cigarette had now rolled under the car and he had to get on all fours to retrieve it.
Now, forget the motoring matter....what points in the story raise any eyebrows and why?
Street
>>> Edited by Streetcop on Tuesday 28th September 19:33
Today, I stopped a man for a minor motoring law infringement. He alighted from his car, and walking towards my car, threw his cigarette on the floor.
I briefly introduced myself and then told the man to pick up the cigarette as he was littering. The man didn't hesitate, but the cigarette had now rolled under the car and he had to get on all fours to retrieve it.
Now, forget the motoring matter....what points in the story raise any eyebrows and why?
Street
>>> Edited by Streetcop on Tuesday 28th September 19:33
Similar to a similar thread from a Doctor.(Dont think it was Mog, but may have been)
Doc stated that the 'yoof' came into an appointment wearing scruffy shorts and eating a sandwich.
Older folk wear ties and wouldn't dream of turning up like a bag of shite.
Some modicum of respect is called for. I wouldn't turn up to the Doctors looking like a beach bum, same as I wouldn't bimble up to a Policeman puffing away dropping my fag end at his feet.
I am assuming you did the honorable thing.
1. Report for littering.
"F*** off copper, not taking me alive"
2. In you come then my lovely..
eh? similar to a similar thread, what sort of grammar is that....
>> Edited by silverback mike on Tuesday 28th September 19:34
Doc stated that the 'yoof' came into an appointment wearing scruffy shorts and eating a sandwich.
Older folk wear ties and wouldn't dream of turning up like a bag of shite.
Some modicum of respect is called for. I wouldn't turn up to the Doctors looking like a beach bum, same as I wouldn't bimble up to a Policeman puffing away dropping my fag end at his feet.
I am assuming you did the honorable thing.
1. Report for littering.
"F*** off copper, not taking me alive"
2. In you come then my lovely..
eh? similar to a similar thread, what sort of grammar is that....
>> Edited by silverback mike on Tuesday 28th September 19:34
Hi Street
No problems.
You stopped someone for a minor motoring infringement, you didn't say you threw the book at him or rearranged his skull, so probably just a word was intended initially. If not, your judgement is what counts - so far so good
He got out and threw his ciggy on the floor. Classic, any reasonable person would realise that in the presence of a police officer, who had just stopped a vehicle, this action by the driver signals a degree of contempt, and is a form of challenge to the officer's status and authority. If your request for the driver to retrieve it was polite but firm you re-establshed control of the situation and signalled that respect has got to be mutual in that kind of situation.
Were you filming a training video for junior plod?edited to add that it was probably a good idea forgetting to mention that you then truncheoned his rear reflector and nicked him for a defective light, á la Porky's
>> Edited by turbobloke on Tuesday 28th September 19:41
No problems.
You stopped someone for a minor motoring infringement, you didn't say you threw the book at him or rearranged his skull, so probably just a word was intended initially. If not, your judgement is what counts - so far so good
He got out and threw his ciggy on the floor. Classic, any reasonable person would realise that in the presence of a police officer, who had just stopped a vehicle, this action by the driver signals a degree of contempt, and is a form of challenge to the officer's status and authority. If your request for the driver to retrieve it was polite but firm you re-establshed control of the situation and signalled that respect has got to be mutual in that kind of situation.
Were you filming a training video for junior plod?edited to add that it was probably a good idea forgetting to mention that you then truncheoned his rear reflector and nicked him for a defective light, á la Porky's
>> Edited by turbobloke on Tuesday 28th September 19:41
No..just on my lonesome...
The guy didn't have his seatbelt on...that's why I stopped him....
After the cigarette retrieval business, I expected compliance, but he got a bit shirty in the back of the car and I had to point out who was asking the questions..etc...A one sided conversation followed and the guy saw that he had overstepped the mark and shrunk considerable...(he was a big guy, so this was noticable
)
I just think...anyone passing by who sees someone throw a cig to the floor in front of a BiB is expecting the BiB to remonstrate with the man..and if he doesn't then furhter hope is lost....
Yeh, you've guessed it..he was fixed penaltied for the seatbelt offence...
Street
The guy didn't have his seatbelt on...that's why I stopped him....
After the cigarette retrieval business, I expected compliance, but he got a bit shirty in the back of the car and I had to point out who was asking the questions..etc...A one sided conversation followed and the guy saw that he had overstepped the mark and shrunk considerable...(he was a big guy, so this was noticable
) I just think...anyone passing by who sees someone throw a cig to the floor in front of a BiB is expecting the BiB to remonstrate with the man..and if he doesn't then furhter hope is lost....
Yeh, you've guessed it..he was fixed penaltied for the seatbelt offence...
Street
These token gestures of disrespect are all the same, something that could just be an ordinary act but in the context they have more meaning. Leadership in any role will always mean standing politely but firmly against it. If anybody else was watching, the right signals will have been communicated. Was the shift that quiet?
turbobloke said:
Was the shift that quiet?
Why? The seat belt stop..?
Average shift...I always stop no seat belters....usually nets other things....If people aren't bothered about seat belt laws...then the other laws are usually neglected too....
Best result, in March 2002 £30,000 of heroin in the glove compartment of a car I'd stopped cos the driver wasn't wearing his seatbelt. He was safely in the back of my locked policecar with my colleague when I decided to search his car....BINGO!
Street
turbobloke said:
Sure, stopping no-belters is a genuine safety related move. Just wondered if there was anything more exciting in the shift, like maybe a glove compartment with a 30k stash of heroin
No, nothing exciting at all today....everyone was the picture of politeness...even the seatbelt/cigarette guy after he had been put straight...
Street
From the way it's been described, I am not entirely sure that throwing the ciggy on the floor was a problem, or should have been turned into a problem. It sounds like an act of deference to me. Guy has got a fag on, gets out of car, cant have a fag on whilst talking to bib, disrespectfull, best ditch it. I think you may have got that one wrong Street. At least the way I picture the scene.
Anyway, worth a finger wagging for not having a seat belt on. And its only a matter of time before smoking whilst driving becomes illegal anyway. Finding your fags, removing one from the pack, then lighting it up, and all the other associated tasks involved to smoke and drive at the same time is just as bad as using a phone. You heard it here first, its bound to happen.
Anyway, worth a finger wagging for not having a seat belt on. And its only a matter of time before smoking whilst driving becomes illegal anyway. Finding your fags, removing one from the pack, then lighting it up, and all the other associated tasks involved to smoke and drive at the same time is just as bad as using a phone. You heard it here first, its bound to happen.
Streetcop said:
I don't know if I'm getting old..or pedantic (perish the thought)...
Today, I stopped a man for a minor motoring law infringement. He alighted from his car, and walking towards my car, threw his cigarette on the floor.
I briefly introduced myself and then told the man to pick up the cigarette as he was littering. The man didn't hesitate, but the cigarette had now rolled under the car and he had to get on all fours to retrieve it.
Now, forget the motoring matter....what points in the story raise any eyebrows and why?
Street
>>> Edited by Streetcop on Tuesday 28th September 19:33
Well if you're getting like your dad Street, I must be getting like my great grandfather!! (He was a copper in Glasgow, 6ft 4in and was nobody's fool.)
We have without a doubt, the most rude, pig ignorant individuals in our society and if I were a BiB I would probably end up in trouble trying to keep my hands off some of them.
I was nearly killed a few years ago by a lunatic who threw a lighted cigarette out of his car window and it went down the front of my shirt; I was following him in a Honda CBX. I don't know to this day how I managed to stay on the bike.
How many times have you seen people throw something out of a car window right into the middle of the road.
Just look at any McDonalds car park at about 11pm at night, totally bloody disgraceful!!
When a society gets to the point where certain individuals have lost all self respect, they sure as hell won't have respect for others or their environment.
You wire in old son, it might achieve more than traffic tickets!
Streetcop said:
I don't know if I'm getting old..or pedantic (perish the thought)...
Today, I stopped a man for a minor motoring law infringement. He alighted from his car, and walking towards my car, threw his cigarette on the floor.
Scene from High Noon? Dirty Harry?
"Draw!"
"Reach for your gun, p*nk! Make my day You feeling lucky?
" Did he look like Yul Brynner in that robo-wild west horror movie where all the machines in robo-land went beserk? Cannot remember name of film "Westworld?" or something?
Or did he stamp it out in Olivia Nuclear Bomb fashion (was he wearing tight trousers) and launch into "You're the One that I want!"
(Wildy is talking at me 19 to dozen here ....
Can you not guess.... ) The scene appeals to our warped sense of humour and we have our eldest piping up too.
Seriously, depends on way he threw his ciggy on floor - did he do it in "challenging your authority fashion?" aggressively? arrogantly? As if he was about to call you rude names (Wildy's plod police training cousin always throws away the key at that stage
)? Did it seem as if he was going to deck you one?
Anyway smoking is a
- you would not want to get me started on the dangers ...... ny second son has tested me on this and LOST! Smoking whilst you are driving? Should imagine sooner or later we will all be tearing each other apart about justification of fines for smoking a fag whilst driving, and how to police smoking, eating a Kit-Kat and using Handy phone.
As for seat belts .... agree they save more lives than they take, and insurance companies tend to reduce damages if seat belt was not worn and contributed to severity of injuries - but I have some nasty anecdotes about the odd one or two rare, freak occurences....and Wildy deliberately removed hers prior to impact - which probably saved her - but that again was a freak incident.
Streetcop said:
I don't think it was defiance from the drive...he just didn't give it a second's thought and probably does it all the time....(motorcycles passing etc etc)
Him on all four in his 'very white suit' did make passing pedestrians smile...
Street
Streetcop, I am afraid you have become your father. A lot of people get pretty shirty if someone is smoking in their presence so it is fairly normal to stub out a fag before getting close. Since time immemorial people have stubbed out fags by treading on them, it just isnt the same as littering with plastic/paper bags and the like. Would be interesting what a judge would make of it, littering or not?
A judge would make say it was littering, as it's caselaw. Cigarette disposal is littering.
It's not just the litter aspect...it's the common sense...ie: You've been stopped for no belt...you don't really want to pay £30...the last thing you should do is start widing the BiB up by throwing a cigarett on the floor...well, I wouldn't anyway
Street
It's not just the litter aspect...it's the common sense...ie: You've been stopped for no belt...you don't really want to pay £30...the last thing you should do is start widing the BiB up by throwing a cigarett on the floor...well, I wouldn't anyway
Street
IOLAIRE said:
I was nearly killed a few years ago by a lunatic who threw a lighted cigarette out of his car window and it went down the front of my shirt
Th fire in the Mont Blanc tunnel was almost certainly caused by a discarded cigarette butt entering the air intake of the truck which caught fire.
Steve
Streetcop said:
A judge would make say it was littering, as it's caselaw. Cigarette disposal is littering.
It's not just the litter aspect...it's the common sense...ie: You've been stopped for no belt...you don't really want to pay £30...the last thing you should do is start widing the BiB up by throwing a cigarett on the floor...well, I wouldn't anyway
Street
I dont wish to comment on your case as I was not there and therefore did not get to see body language etc. But.... If I was stopped by BiB while I was smoking, I would probably not realise I was until I got out of the vehicle(yes I am that bad). Now I have a problem - do I continue talking to BiB while holding ciggie (definately not- disrespectful) - return to vehicle to extinguish ciggie (BiB would start to become concerned) - stub it out on the ground (seems like sensible option to me).
If I were made to look like a naughty schoolboy and crawl around to pick it up before one of your famous one way conversations, I doubt if I would be very receptive. If asked to pick it up and dispose afterwards, then I would probably not have a problem.
Come on Gary, admit it - you wound him up!
Steve
Streetcop said:
A judge would make say it was littering, as it's caselaw. Cigarette disposal is littering.
It's not just the litter aspect...it's the common sense...ie: You've been stopped for no belt...you don't really want to pay £30...the last thing you should do is start widing the BiB up by throwing a cigarett on the floor...well, I wouldn't anyway
Street
Got to say that I would have taken the littering rap, rather than pick it up. Threatening someone for this does no credit to you. What happened to common sense, that is to the spirit of the law rather than the letter. If you do everone who ever drops a fag-end, the courts would be full. If you are selective then it is a form of victimisation.
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