RE: High speeds not dangerous, says judge
Thursday 19th May 2005
159mph is legal - no, really...Driving at 159mph on the motorway is legal -- as long as you're familiarising yourself with a new car. It might just help if you're a member of Her Majesty's Constabulary too.
High speeds not dangerous, says judge
'Speed kills' myth exploded in court hearing
159mph is legal - no, really...
PC Mark Milton was recorded by a patrol car's video camera on the M54 travelling at 159mph near Telford in the small hours of 5 December 2003. The police officers who apprehended him said in the court hearing in Ludlow that he was not driving dangerously, and he was judged not guilty.
In clearing him, the judge however said, "I can't help but see the irony that those that brought this prosecution are those very people who have purchased cars that go at this speed and paid for him (the defendant) to go to learn to drive at these speeds."
Reactions included Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign, who said, "Here's a clear and proper admission that in suitable circumstances even 159mph need not be dangerous. If 159mph can be safe enough not to endanger the public, then surely this is a clear official admission that driving a few miles per hour over the speed limit isn't necessarily dangerous either.
"There is so much more to safe driving than speed. Any speed at all can be deadly, and any speed at all can be adequately safe if conditions are suitable.
"Road safety depends on drivers selecting safe and appropriate speeds according to the conditions and the vast majority of us do it well and do it safely. But erroneous official messages have been undermining the process and deaths are going up. We have to get back to the policies that gave us the safest roads in the world in the first place, long before speed cameras and the pointless obsession with numerical speed."
More predictable reactions included that of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, which said it was shocked that Milton was not convicted. "Police are governed by health and safety laws just the same as any other employer. We don't believe 159mph can ever be justified on public roads. Even in emergencies we consider that driving at 100mph or more is too dangerous."
Discussion
There are few things really raise my hackles, but this really does. How can this possibly be just. Unfortunately this doesn't set a presedent if you get caught speeding, unless you are a copper of course, but what sort of example to copper's follies set for the rest of us, getting hammered for doing 7mph over the limit?
Are any of the drivers support organisations arranging a protest on the back of this? I for one am tempted to write to the Home Secretary about this.
PetrolTed said:
Why? Was it dangerous? Do you know the conditions he was driving at? Was the speed sustained or was it 159mph and back again?
This is exactly the point.
If its not dangerous then just WHAT is the problem?
I think its a case of indignation at appearing to being treated differently rather than a condemnation of his actions.
In actual fact this IS a blessing in disguise and should be recognised as such.
Its another very very big nail in the speed kills myth and may well help in the fight for sensible policy on speed and limits in this country.
If people are miffed with him getting what looks like special treatment, then complain about THAT, just dont confuse his driving at those speeds with an entirely different issue.
Good luck to the guy.
i find the whole idea of driving in this country a complete and utter joke! The whole police radar and cameras etc are just easy revenue, targeting the motorist, your public enemy number one with a car now an easy target to get pound notes!! I think that all of this affects driving on long journeys as your constantly looking around for cameras and speed traps even when your within in the limit taking concentration away from actually driving a car. Surely it doesnt matter what time this bloke was caught he was still just about 90mph over the limit, yet again just shows how corrupt this country is.
phil_dougan said:
i find the whole idea of driving in this country a complete and utter joke! The whole police radar and cameras etc are just easy revenue, targeting the motorist, your public enemy number one with a car now an easy target to get pound notes!! I think that all of this affects driving on long journeys as your constantly looking around for cameras and speed traps even when your within in the limit taking concentration away from actually driving a car. Surely it doesnt matter what time this bloke was caught he was still just about 90mph over the limit, yet again just shows how corrupt this country is.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Confusion of the issues!
yes yet another vexed driver here on the officer who got a slapped bum for doing 159mph what a load of flim flam!! familiarizing himself with the car!! come on !! so a rapists defense would be 'oh ive never done it before was just familiarizing myself with a woman before i have a proper relationship your honour' i was caught by a nicely concealed white van last year doing 55mph in a 40mph zone this road is a dual carriage way with 'no stopping ' signs erected no records of any accident on that stretch since it was built nearly 10 years ago and i was at least 100 yards behind the vehicle in front and there are 15 foot walls either side of the carriage way so there were no pedestrians so i was putting no one at risk yet 3 points and 60 quid i was presented with if only id said in my defense that id just had it serviced and with new spark plugs in it went like the clappers!! so it was gonna take me a few hours to get used to this new power...damn!! think the police and cps the courts,its 1 big family
One issue that i am struggling to get to grips with is that if this policeman was legally entitled to test his driving skills in this way, and get used to driving this new (supprisingly fast) vauxhall...
.....then why did his collegues prosicute him, and why have we, the tax payers just paid for this prosecution, and raise this whole issue into the public domain.
I, for one get some comfort that the police drivers are actually quite well trained and know the abilites of the cars they drive , and not as reckless as some of the clowns they are asked to persue on our streets.
.....then why did his collegues prosicute him, and why have we, the tax payers just paid for this prosecution, and raise this whole issue into the public domain.
I, for one get some comfort that the police drivers are actually quite well trained and know the abilites of the cars they drive , and not as reckless as some of the clowns they are asked to persue on our streets.
daveyctvr said:
yes yet another vexed driver here on the officer who got a slapped bum for doing 159mph what a load of flim flam!! familiarizing himself with the car!! come on !! so a rapists defense would be 'oh ive never done it before was just familiarizing myself with a woman before i have a proper relationship your honour' i was caught by a nicely concealed white van last year doing 55mph in a 40mph zone this road is a dual carriage way with 'no stopping ' signs erected no records of any accident on that stretch since it was built nearly 10 years ago and i was at least 100 yards behind the vehicle in front and there are 15 foot walls either side of the carriage way so there were no pedestrians so i was putting no one at risk yet 3 points and 60 quid i was presented with if only id said in my defense that id just had it serviced and with new spark plugs in it went like the clappers!! so it was gonna take me a few hours to get used to this new power...damn!! think the police and cps the courts,its 1 big family
Yep! They probably all go to the same secret society lodge! No use being in one otherwise.
"Not Guilty"! 
"Thank you your honour, see you later for a pint" >> Edited by 8Pack on Thursday 19th May 12:30
daveyctvr said:
yes yet another vexed driver here on the officer who got a slapped bum for doing 159mph what a load of flim flam!! familiarizing himself with the car!! come on !! so a rapists defense would be 'oh ive never done it before was just familiarizing myself with a woman before i have a proper relationship your honour' i was caught by a nicely concealed white van last year doing 55mph in a 40mph zone this road is a dual carriage way with 'no stopping ' signs erected no records of any accident on that stretch since it was built nearly 10 years ago and i was at least 100 yards behind the vehicle in front and there are 15 foot walls either side of the carriage way so there were no pedestrians so i was putting no one at risk yet 3 points and 60 quid i was presented with if only id said in my defense that id just had it serviced and with new spark plugs in it went like the clappers!! so it was gonna take me a few hours to get used to this new power...damn!! think the police and cps the courts,its 1 big family
So do you want him proscuted because his driving was dangerous or because you wouldn't get away with it?
I for one see a seperation between SCamera partenerships and the police force and am glad this has happened as it is amunition against the partenerships. Agreed there does seem to be a level of double standards here (quite a high one!) but if this is what is needed to bring down the SCamera partenerships then bring it on...
Rob
This case proves that driving at 159mph does not necessarily mean that you will cause instant death and misery on not only your own families lives but the lives of other innocents. The fact is the copper, survived. Obviously due to the fact that he has benefited(sp.) from extensive Police driver training and the fact that he was probably a level headed individual who exercised common sense and restraint whilst driving beyond the national limit. What gets my goat is of course the inconsistency in the story. The fact that he is not punished when many other "as skilled" persons might expect to receive a ban, fine, possibly jail sentence for driving at such speeds.
I for one am all for an increase in the speed limits to something a little more reasonable. Personally I don't think we would see a great change in driver attitude and the actual speed's achieved on our motorways. If we abolish motorway speed limits however thereby having a similar situation to Germany, where limited BMW's/Mercedes can travel consistently at 155mph on the autobahn, our inherent lack of lane discipline as a society COULD create a wealth of "problems".
I for one am all for an increase in the speed limits to something a little more reasonable. Personally I don't think we would see a great change in driver attitude and the actual speed's achieved on our motorways. If we abolish motorway speed limits however thereby having a similar situation to Germany, where limited BMW's/Mercedes can travel consistently at 155mph on the autobahn, our inherent lack of lane discipline as a society COULD create a wealth of "problems".
Rob_the_Sparky said:
So do you want him proscuted because his driving was dangerous or because you wouldn't get away with it?
Because I wouldnt get away with it.
The law is the law, I may not agree with it and I would like it changed but until that time he broke it and should suffer the same consequences as any other person.
no matter how much I hate scameras and all that support them I cannot find any justification for 159mph.
Whilst the situation remains the same then the officer should have been treated along the lines of every other driver - even advanced driver - in the UK. He should have been prosecuted for it.
If the rules do change and the police begin to concentrate on "driver education", "appropriate speed for the conditions", "forward planning" then I could accept this speed.
The story would have been so different had he caused an accident. I accept he did not but the risk was there. If the police really want to "familiarise themselves" with the vehicles dynamics then they should do so in the same manner we have to. Take it to a track.
Whilst the situation remains the same then the officer should have been treated along the lines of every other driver - even advanced driver - in the UK. He should have been prosecuted for it.
If the rules do change and the police begin to concentrate on "driver education", "appropriate speed for the conditions", "forward planning" then I could accept this speed.
The story would have been so different had he caused an accident. I accept he did not but the risk was there. If the police really want to "familiarise themselves" with the vehicles dynamics then they should do so in the same manner we have to. Take it to a track.
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