Reversed transfer after selling a car
Discussion
Might be useful to some -
I sold my car on Friday night, decent guy arrived, he was a trader with a business about 20 miles away from me. Spent about 30 mins at my house, looked all over the car, drove it and we agreed on a price of £17K. He transferred the cash in front of me and it arrived in my bank account. We did the paperwork and he took the car.
On Sunday, he called me and asked me to check my account. I could see that the transaction had been reversed. I spoke to my bank and they haven't been very helpful and is still ongoing, but it's become clear to me that because we used the same bank (he used HSBC and I was First Direct) it allowed them to reverse the transaction 2 days later, without talking to either of us.
The guy who bought the car is more concerned that me, because he is constantly selling cars and this is the first time he has had a transaction reversed.
It appears the bank suspected fraud (the deal was done at 11PM on a Friday night) but didn't call the buyer to inform him of this.
In my case, because the buyer is a decent guy, this isn't an issue, but had he not been, the car could well have been in bits/out of the country/used in crime, well before I had any idea there was a problem. My only course of action would be to report the car stolen, but once the police knew the story, they would no doubt lose interest and claim it was a matter for the banks anyway.
Slightly worrying that there appears to be no foolproof safe way to sell a car. I had no idea it was possible for a transaction to be reversed days after the event.
I sold my car on Friday night, decent guy arrived, he was a trader with a business about 20 miles away from me. Spent about 30 mins at my house, looked all over the car, drove it and we agreed on a price of £17K. He transferred the cash in front of me and it arrived in my bank account. We did the paperwork and he took the car.
On Sunday, he called me and asked me to check my account. I could see that the transaction had been reversed. I spoke to my bank and they haven't been very helpful and is still ongoing, but it's become clear to me that because we used the same bank (he used HSBC and I was First Direct) it allowed them to reverse the transaction 2 days later, without talking to either of us.
The guy who bought the car is more concerned that me, because he is constantly selling cars and this is the first time he has had a transaction reversed.
It appears the bank suspected fraud (the deal was done at 11PM on a Friday night) but didn't call the buyer to inform him of this.
In my case, because the buyer is a decent guy, this isn't an issue, but had he not been, the car could well have been in bits/out of the country/used in crime, well before I had any idea there was a problem. My only course of action would be to report the car stolen, but once the police knew the story, they would no doubt lose interest and claim it was a matter for the banks anyway.
Slightly worrying that there appears to be no foolproof safe way to sell a car. I had no idea it was possible for a transaction to be reversed days after the event.
FunkyGibbon said:
I’d get on to your bank ASAP
I imagine the OP is very grateful for this advice as they probably hadn't thought of doing that 
OP really interesting and keep us updated if you get any more info. My experience of similar (not the same) matters involving what the banks think might be fraud is that they are extremely tight lipped which is super frustrating, you never get to the bottom of it.
I expect your buyer will transfer the money to you again and you'll not know what went on.
BertBert said:
My experience of similar (not the same) matters involving what the banks think might be fraud is that they are extremely tight lipped which is super frustrating, you never get to the bottom of it.
This might be related to "tipping off" which is an offence but can be very irritating.https://www.ashcottsolicitors.co.uk/tipping-off-ex...
Countdown said:
BertBert said:
My experience of similar (not the same) matters involving what the banks think might be fraud is that they are extremely tight lipped which is super frustrating, you never get to the bottom of it.
This might be related to "tipping off" which is an offence but can be very irritating.https://www.ashcottsolicitors.co.uk/tipping-off-ex...
Did the dealer put 'M3' or maybe 'AK47' in the payment reference?
I know nothing of the mechanics of this and i hope the dealer is truly as confused as you.
The key thing to remember based on the information you have is that the money is floating around the banks system, top priority is to stop it going back to the dealers account.
Rely on no instruction other than when speaking directly with a confirmed bank representative you have called and if they tell you to do something to move it , get them to confirm the call is recorded, it might be obvious but you can never be too sure.
I had it with a much smaller sum with O2 and I'm fully convinced the leak with on their side, it's clearly not the same but it started with an innocuous contact on my data not working correctly.
The key thing to remember based on the information you have is that the money is floating around the banks system, top priority is to stop it going back to the dealers account.
Rely on no instruction other than when speaking directly with a confirmed bank representative you have called and if they tell you to do something to move it , get them to confirm the call is recorded, it might be obvious but you can never be too sure.
I had it with a much smaller sum with O2 and I'm fully convinced the leak with on their side, it's clearly not the same but it started with an innocuous contact on my data not working correctly.
BertBert said:
I imagine the OP is very grateful for this advice as they probably hadn't thought of doing that
OP really interesting and keep us updated if you get any more info. My experience of similar (not the same) matters involving what the banks think might be fraud is that they are extremely tight lipped which is super frustrating, you never get to the bottom of it.
I expect your buyer will transfer the money to you again and you'll not know what went on.
I had similar with a biggish bonus payment from work a couple of months ago. My bank rejected it and I was really given the run-around of different people to talk to but they kept saying it wasn't their role. Someone decided that the payment template name, unchanged and used monthly for 20yrs, didn't exactly match the accont name but turns out they don't see the template name anyway! The account name is a joint account so the payee name will never exactly match.OP really interesting and keep us updated if you get any more info. My experience of similar (not the same) matters involving what the banks think might be fraud is that they are extremely tight lipped which is super frustrating, you never get to the bottom of it.
I expect your buyer will transfer the money to you again and you'll not know what went on.
Took a few days for it to appear back in company account, they resent it and it went through fine.
cashmax said:
In my case, because the buyer is a decent guy, this isn't an issue, but had he not been, the car could well have been in bits/out of the country/used in crime, well before I had any idea there was a problem. My only course of action would be to report the car stolen, but once the police knew the story, they would no doubt lose interest and claim it was a matter for the banks anyway.
I'm not saying this would be easy, but if the money had shown cleared in your account and you relied on that to release the car then you'd have a pretty solid case against the bank. You read of cases where money is sent to the wrong account and the bank can't get it back if the recipient doesn't co-operate.DaveA8 said:
The key thing to remember based on the information you have is that the money is floating around the banks system, top priority is to stop it going back to the dealers account.
In the narrative, this is not the case. The dealer called the OP which was because they had their money back, so it's not floating about as it wereI'm part of a dealers/salesman group due to work and one of them posted up recently that they sold a car (2nd hand), client paid transfer and then had it reversed some time later (like a few days) as they thought they had been ripped off due to some bodywork issue, and also didn't tell the dealer apparently or try and bring it back.
I thought this was impossible as it clearly says so when you make a transfer but it seems not. When this guy posted up a couple of other guys also said it had happened to them also.
I know it's O/T but it's very concerning that this happens - what is the safest way to receive payment now?
I thought this was impossible as it clearly says so when you make a transfer but it seems not. When this guy posted up a couple of other guys also said it had happened to them also.
I know it's O/T but it's very concerning that this happens - what is the safest way to receive payment now?
HSBC have reversed a payment I made on Saturday am for £365 that I made to a customer who was stood in my shop and whose card I had to take the payment details from, Suspended my business account , they call but I would not deal with them saturday afternoon because it really did not sound genuine (and I worked for HSBC for 17 years). Trying to sort in now, branch cant unsuspend account just been down there, called them twice second time asked for a callback which has just this minute been made. Peson puts me on hold then the line goes dead, cusotmer still not got his money !
If you shout "fraud" a bank will try to reverse almost anything these days.
If you want safety after receiving a transfer you can immediately transfer the money into another account you hold at a different bank. That should stall any attempt at reversing the transfer (so long as you make sure the balance on the first account is dropped close to zero).
To shout "fraud" when there's no fraud is itself fraudulent and could land you in a whole pile of trouble.
If you want safety after receiving a transfer you can immediately transfer the money into another account you hold at a different bank. That should stall any attempt at reversing the transfer (so long as you make sure the balance on the first account is dropped close to zero).
To shout "fraud" when there's no fraud is itself fraudulent and could land you in a whole pile of trouble.
BertBert said:
DaveA8 said:
The key thing to remember based on the information you have is that the money is floating around the banks system, top priority is to stop it going back to the dealers account.
In the narrative, this is not the case. The dealer called the OP which was because they had their money back, so it's not floating about as it wereIt is very possible the dealer may have been told by the bank the money is coming back but not yest have it but I do know where any confusion exists ( on international payments at least) that money is paid to the banks suspense account until it the query is sorted.
Anyway hopefully it all gets sorted
I've had this before with my son transferring £20k from his HSBC account to mine. All was well until they reversed the transaction 2 days later.
My son had to get in touch with HSBC to clarify the purpose of the transfer, and then it was put back again.
I wouldn't have known it was a thing until it happened to me.
It is for the payer to sort out, I don't think the recipient can do anything about it.
My son had to get in touch with HSBC to clarify the purpose of the transfer, and then it was put back again.
I wouldn't have known it was a thing until it happened to me.
It is for the payer to sort out, I don't think the recipient can do anything about it.
Edited by WhiskyDisco on Monday 12th June 12:51
Yep it's all a strange world of bank transfers now and with the amount of fraud around, combined with the focus on AML it just gets harder and harder.
I couldn't convince Barclays to transfer £40k for two peoples' ISA investments from my joint Barclays account to my joint RBC account. The more I argued that both bank accounts were mine and that the absurd questions being asked were absurd the more intransigent the Barclays phone banking person got.
Gave up in the end and did multiple transactions up to the daily transfer limit.
Hopefully the dealer will be able to remake the transfer to the OP easily and it will be sorted.
Bert
I couldn't convince Barclays to transfer £40k for two peoples' ISA investments from my joint Barclays account to my joint RBC account. The more I argued that both bank accounts were mine and that the absurd questions being asked were absurd the more intransigent the Barclays phone banking person got.
Gave up in the end and did multiple transactions up to the daily transfer limit.
Hopefully the dealer will be able to remake the transfer to the OP easily and it will be sorted.
Bert
BertBert said:
Yep it's all a strange world of bank transfers now and with the amount of fraud around, combined with the focus on AML it just gets harder and harder.
I couldn't convince Barclays to transfer £40k for two peoples' ISA investments from my joint Barclays account to my joint RBC account. The more I argued that both bank accounts were mine and that the absurd questions being asked were absurd the more intransigent the Barclays phone banking person got.
Gave up in the end and did multiple transactions up to the daily transfer limit.
Hopefully the dealer will be able to remake the transfer to the OP easily and it will be sorted.
Bert
The short answer to all of these is money laundering checks. Since they're carrying out the checks, they can't legally even tell you the check's in progress. Hence the shifty questions. I couldn't convince Barclays to transfer £40k for two peoples' ISA investments from my joint Barclays account to my joint RBC account. The more I argued that both bank accounts were mine and that the absurd questions being asked were absurd the more intransigent the Barclays phone banking person got.
Gave up in the end and did multiple transactions up to the daily transfer limit.
Hopefully the dealer will be able to remake the transfer to the OP easily and it will be sorted.
Bert
You should ask the bank how they did this - I understand freezing the funds in your account IN CASE it is returned, but actually returning it is madness!
I specifically phoned up Lloyds before I took payment for my last two car sales and got them to categorically say on the phone "they can't reverse the transaction, once it's in your account it is yours'. I got them to confirm also that I would have no problem receiving the payment.
I will do this before selling any car in the future too, a clear and concise phone call will be very helpful if the worst happens.
I do also immediately move it in another bank - Just in case.
I specifically phoned up Lloyds before I took payment for my last two car sales and got them to categorically say on the phone "they can't reverse the transaction, once it's in your account it is yours'. I got them to confirm also that I would have no problem receiving the payment.
I will do this before selling any car in the future too, a clear and concise phone call will be very helpful if the worst happens.
I do also immediately move it in another bank - Just in case.
I've had similar (bank was also HSBC, for what it's worth): I bought a car, transferred the cash using online banking on my phone, and drove off home.
Next morning, the cash was back in my bank account with no sign of any transaction having taken place. I contacted the seller and actually drove him into town to visit my bank, to find out what had happened.
Long story short: the bank had flagged it as a suspect transaction and had (they claimed) sent me a text asking me to confirm within 15 minutes (or similar) that it was genuine. Snag is, the mobile signal where I live in Norfolk is crap, so the text never arrived.
Next morning, the cash was back in my bank account with no sign of any transaction having taken place. I contacted the seller and actually drove him into town to visit my bank, to find out what had happened.
Long story short: the bank had flagged it as a suspect transaction and had (they claimed) sent me a text asking me to confirm within 15 minutes (or similar) that it was genuine. Snag is, the mobile signal where I live in Norfolk is crap, so the text never arrived.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff