Red Light Camera - Red/Amber?
Discussion
In the UK, once red, our traffic lights then go to red/amber for two seconds, before going to green. In the Highway Code, this is specified as “preparing to move off” time, however there is no real mention of this period in traffic law (that I can see).
Does anyone know if red light offence cameras capture (and thus prosecute) drivers that set off during the red/amber period? I.E. they are stationary when the light is red, but the second the light goes to red/amber they set off, thus crossing the line before it has turned green. Perhaps to get ahead of a truck, or a slower driver.
In a 2016 NPCC publication, I read “It is recommended that the evidence in each offence detected is examined to check the red-light is illuminated and in view when the stop line was crossed, and that no other light is illuminated with the red”. This would suggest the letter of the law/prosecution is only interested in strict red lights.
Equally, if you are at the front of the queue, in an automatic/electric car and the junction is easily visible, are you really supposed to sit there for an extra two seconds until the light is green? In a manual car I can understand, but… seems a bit outdated IMHO. I’m not sure if there’s any differentiation on the front of the car crossing the line before green, or the whole car.
BTW - I am asking specifically about the two second red/amber period - not those that creep forward over the line when the light is firmly red.
Does anyone know if red light offence cameras capture (and thus prosecute) drivers that set off during the red/amber period? I.E. they are stationary when the light is red, but the second the light goes to red/amber they set off, thus crossing the line before it has turned green. Perhaps to get ahead of a truck, or a slower driver.
In a 2016 NPCC publication, I read “It is recommended that the evidence in each offence detected is examined to check the red-light is illuminated and in view when the stop line was crossed, and that no other light is illuminated with the red”. This would suggest the letter of the law/prosecution is only interested in strict red lights.
Equally, if you are at the front of the queue, in an automatic/electric car and the junction is easily visible, are you really supposed to sit there for an extra two seconds until the light is green? In a manual car I can understand, but… seems a bit outdated IMHO. I’m not sure if there’s any differentiation on the front of the car crossing the line before green, or the whole car.
BTW - I am asking specifically about the two second red/amber period - not those that creep forward over the line when the light is firmly red.
hawk617 said:
In the UK, once red, our traffic lights then go to red/amber for two seconds, before going to green. In the Highway Code, this is specified as preparing to move off time, however there is no real mention of this period in traffic law (that I can see).
Does anyone know if red light offence cameras capture (and thus prosecute) drivers that set off during the red/amber period? I.E. they are stationary when the light is red, but the second the light goes to red/amber they set off, thus crossing the line before it has turned green. Perhaps to get ahead of a truck, or a slower driver.
In a 2016 NPCC publication, I read It is recommended that the evidence in each offence detected is examined to check the red-light is illuminated and in view when the stop line was crossed, and that no other light is illuminated with the red . This would suggest the letter of the law/prosecution is only interested in strict red lights.
Equally, if you are at the front of the queue, in an automatic/electric car and the junction is easily visible, are you really supposed to sit there for an extra two seconds until the light is green? In a manual car I can understand, but seems a bit outdated IMHO. I m not sure if there s any differentiation on the front of the car crossing the line before green, or the whole car.
BTW - I am asking specifically about the two second red/amber period - not those that creep forward over the line when the light is firmly red.
It doesn't matter what type of vehicle you are driving, have you passed your driving testDoes anyone know if red light offence cameras capture (and thus prosecute) drivers that set off during the red/amber period? I.E. they are stationary when the light is red, but the second the light goes to red/amber they set off, thus crossing the line before it has turned green. Perhaps to get ahead of a truck, or a slower driver.
In a 2016 NPCC publication, I read It is recommended that the evidence in each offence detected is examined to check the red-light is illuminated and in view when the stop line was crossed, and that no other light is illuminated with the red . This would suggest the letter of the law/prosecution is only interested in strict red lights.
Equally, if you are at the front of the queue, in an automatic/electric car and the junction is easily visible, are you really supposed to sit there for an extra two seconds until the light is green? In a manual car I can understand, but seems a bit outdated IMHO. I m not sure if there s any differentiation on the front of the car crossing the line before green, or the whole car.
BTW - I am asking specifically about the two second red/amber period - not those that creep forward over the line when the light is firmly red.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/sched...
(7) Red and amber signals illuminated together denote an impending change to green but conveys the same prohibition as the red signal
(7) Red and amber signals illuminated together denote an impending change to green but conveys the same prohibition as the red signal
Whilst thr document you read seems to suggest the cameras would not enforce going on red/amber, I think everyone understands the law on this.
Whether people actually follow it? No chance. You can get a lot done in those 2 seconds.
I guess we will have to wait for the first "caught by unfair red light camera" post to see if the camera people will enforce the ramber gamblers.
FYI, the new type red light cameras also act as speed cameras, so rushing to beat the red can get you 3 points.
Whether people actually follow it? No chance. You can get a lot done in those 2 seconds.
I guess we will have to wait for the first "caught by unfair red light camera" post to see if the camera people will enforce the ramber gamblers.
FYI, the new type red light cameras also act as speed cameras, so rushing to beat the red can get you 3 points.
A publication produced by the NPCC is only guidance, it cannot over-ride the law. It is an offence to pass the line if the red light is on. The guidance is similar to the guidance on issuing speeding tickets where the guidance is not to begin prosecution until 10% + 2 mph.
This means it is legally possible to be prosecuted if both lights are showing, but is probably unlikely.
This means it is legally possible to be prosecuted if both lights are showing, but is probably unlikely.
I thinks its time to drop the red/amber thing. I guess it’s going back to the days of old. To some it means get ready to light up your tyres others start rolling of the 5 to 10 seconds later. On balance it would improve the flow of traffic and stop the lights being effectively jumped.
MustangGT said:
A publication produced by the NPCC is only guidance, it cannot over-ride the law. It is an offence to pass the line if the red light is on. The guidance is similar to the guidance on issuing speeding tickets where the guidance is not to begin prosecution until 10% + 2 mph.
This means it is legally possible to be prosecuted if both lights are showing, but is probably unlikely.
That’s not what it says.This means it is legally possible to be prosecuted if both lights are showing, but is probably unlikely.
It says it is expected that a prosecution will be made as soon as the following speeds are reached. Then says prosecution may also be considered at speed below those in the table.
If you are going to quote guidance, at least read it first.
ashenfie said:
I thinks its time to drop the red/amber thing. I guess it s going back to the days of old. To some it means get ready to light up your tyres others start rolling of the 5 to 10 seconds later. On balance it would improve the flow of traffic and stop the lights being effectively jumped.
I think the 'days of old' were just red-amber-green, and red+amber came along later so if you first saw the light on amber you knew which way it was going to go.Simpo Two said:
ashenfie said:
I thinks its time to drop the red/amber thing. I guess it s going back to the days of old. To some it means get ready to light up your tyres others start rolling of the 5 to 10 seconds later. On balance it would improve the flow of traffic and stop the lights being effectively jumped.
I think the 'days of old' were just red-amber-green, and red+amber came along later so if you first saw the light on amber you knew which way it was going to go.
)2020vision said:
MustangGT said:
A publication produced by the NPCC is only guidance, it cannot over-ride the law. It is an offence to pass the line if the red light is on. The guidance is similar to the guidance on issuing speeding tickets where the guidance is not to begin prosecution until 10% + 2 mph.
This means it is legally possible to be prosecuted if both lights are showing, but is probably unlikely.
That s not what it says.This means it is legally possible to be prosecuted if both lights are showing, but is probably unlikely.
It says it is expected that a prosecution will be made as soon as the following speeds are reached. Then says prosecution may also be considered at speed below those in the table.
If you are going to quote guidance, at least read it first.
Thank you all for your comments.
I’m fully aware of what the red/amber is supposed to mean, however the same can be said for doing 33mph or doing a u-turn in the junction of a road. All are illegal, but nobody really cares.
I was only curious as someone I know mistimed their setting off, and crossed during the red/amber phase, in front of a red light camera. I didn’t know the answer and, to be honest, tended to treat the red/amber phase as go if clear.
I couldn’t find any mention of red/amber lights with regard to prosecution - only red equals three points, etc.
The newer cameras are great - you’ll get six points for running a red light at speed!
As I said, I do think this two second period is quite outdated. I wasn’t asking what the red/amber meant, I was asking what the law was for enforcement, etc.
I suppose we’ll have to wait and see.
I’m fully aware of what the red/amber is supposed to mean, however the same can be said for doing 33mph or doing a u-turn in the junction of a road. All are illegal, but nobody really cares.
I was only curious as someone I know mistimed their setting off, and crossed during the red/amber phase, in front of a red light camera. I didn’t know the answer and, to be honest, tended to treat the red/amber phase as go if clear.
I couldn’t find any mention of red/amber lights with regard to prosecution - only red equals three points, etc.
The newer cameras are great - you’ll get six points for running a red light at speed!
As I said, I do think this two second period is quite outdated. I wasn’t asking what the red/amber meant, I was asking what the law was for enforcement, etc.
I suppose we’ll have to wait and see.
hawk617 said:
Thank you all for your comments.
I m fully aware of what the red/amber is supposed to mean, however the same can be said for doing 33mph or doing a u-turn in the junction of a road. All are illegal, but nobody really cares.
I was only curious as someone I know mistimed their setting off, and crossed during the red/amber phase, in front of a red light camera. I didn t know the answer and, to be honest, tended to treat the red/amber phase as go if clear.
I couldn t find any mention of red/amber lights with regard to prosecution - only red equals three points, etc.
The newer cameras are great - you ll get six points for running a red light at speed!
As I said, I do think this two second period is quite outdated. I wasn t asking what the red/amber meant, I was asking what the law was for enforcement, etc.
I suppose we ll have to wait and see.
Anytime a red light is showing it means do not cross the stop line - the fact that an amber light is showing together with a red light, is immaterial.I m fully aware of what the red/amber is supposed to mean, however the same can be said for doing 33mph or doing a u-turn in the junction of a road. All are illegal, but nobody really cares.
I was only curious as someone I know mistimed their setting off, and crossed during the red/amber phase, in front of a red light camera. I didn t know the answer and, to be honest, tended to treat the red/amber phase as go if clear.
I couldn t find any mention of red/amber lights with regard to prosecution - only red equals three points, etc.
The newer cameras are great - you ll get six points for running a red light at speed!
As I said, I do think this two second period is quite outdated. I wasn t asking what the red/amber meant, I was asking what the law was for enforcement, etc.
I suppose we ll have to wait and see.
hawk617 said:
The newer cameras are great - you ll get six points for running a red light at speed!
Unless the speed or time into red was excessive, it would likely be just the 3 points.And for clarity, it is an offence if any part of a vehicle proceeds beyond the stop line when the red light is showing i.e. the line doesn't have to be crossed for the offence to be complete.
Edited by SS2. on Friday 4th July 14:33
hawk617 said:
Thank you all for your comments.
I m fully aware of what the red/amber is supposed to mean, however the same can be said for doing 33mph or doing a u-turn in the junction of a road. All are illegal, but nobody really cares.
I was only curious as someone I know mistimed their setting off, and crossed during the red/amber phase, in front of a red light camera. I didn t know the answer and, to be honest, tended to treat the red/amber phase as go if clear.
I couldn t find any mention of red/amber lights with regard to prosecution - only red equals three points, etc.
The newer cameras are great - you ll get six points for running a red light at speed!
As I said, I do think this two second period is quite outdated. I wasn t asking what the red/amber meant, I was asking what the law was for enforcement, etc.
I suppose we ll have to wait and see.
It‘s not illegal to do a U-turn at a road junction (unless some other factor - like a No U-turns sign makes it so).I m fully aware of what the red/amber is supposed to mean, however the same can be said for doing 33mph or doing a u-turn in the junction of a road. All are illegal, but nobody really cares.
I was only curious as someone I know mistimed their setting off, and crossed during the red/amber phase, in front of a red light camera. I didn t know the answer and, to be honest, tended to treat the red/amber phase as go if clear.
I couldn t find any mention of red/amber lights with regard to prosecution - only red equals three points, etc.
The newer cameras are great - you ll get six points for running a red light at speed!
As I said, I do think this two second period is quite outdated. I wasn t asking what the red/amber meant, I was asking what the law was for enforcement, etc.
I suppose we ll have to wait and see.
Edited by Foss62 on Friday 4th July 15:45
Edited by Foss62 on Friday 4th July 15:46
hawk617 said:
Thank you all for your comments.
I m fully aware of what the red/amber is supposed to mean, however the same can be said for doing 33mph or doing a u-turn in the junction of a road. All are illegal, but nobody really cares.
I was only curious as someone I know mistimed their setting off, and crossed during the red/amber phase, in front of a red light camera. I didn t know the answer and, to be honest, tended to treat the red/amber phase as go if clear.
I couldn t find any mention of red/amber lights with regard to prosecution - only red equals three points, etc.
The newer cameras are great - you ll get six points for running a red light at speed!
As I said, I do think this two second period is quite outdated. I wasn t asking what the red/amber meant, I was asking what the law was for enforcement, etc.
I suppose we ll have to wait and see.
You shouldn't be driving.I m fully aware of what the red/amber is supposed to mean, however the same can be said for doing 33mph or doing a u-turn in the junction of a road. All are illegal, but nobody really cares.
I was only curious as someone I know mistimed their setting off, and crossed during the red/amber phase, in front of a red light camera. I didn t know the answer and, to be honest, tended to treat the red/amber phase as go if clear.
I couldn t find any mention of red/amber lights with regard to prosecution - only red equals three points, etc.
The newer cameras are great - you ll get six points for running a red light at speed!
As I said, I do think this two second period is quite outdated. I wasn t asking what the red/amber meant, I was asking what the law was for enforcement, etc.
I suppose we ll have to wait and see.
In my 60 year long driving career it occurred to me quite early on that, when at the front of the queue at a red light, it is not a good idea to be in a hurry to rush off at the first glimpse of green.
I always let the guy in the lane beside me, or the first car coming the other way lead off. If there is a clown coming across the junction after running the red lights, let them be the first ones to find out.
I wonder what kind of exciting high powered life the OP leads if he is so concerned about two whole seconds of it being wasted waiting for the red and amber to clear.
I always let the guy in the lane beside me, or the first car coming the other way lead off. If there is a clown coming across the junction after running the red lights, let them be the first ones to find out.
I wonder what kind of exciting high powered life the OP leads if he is so concerned about two whole seconds of it being wasted waiting for the red and amber to clear.
Roofless Toothless said:
In my 60 year long driving career it occurred to me quite early on that, when at the front of the queue at a red light, it is not a good idea to be in a hurry to rush off at the first glimpse of green.
I always let the guy in the lane beside me, or the first car coming the other way lead off. If there is a clown coming across the junction after running the red lights, let them be the first ones to find out.
I wonder what kind of exciting high powered life the OP leads if he is so concerned about two whole seconds of it being wasted waiting for the red and amber to clear.
A full-bore launch at two sets on the way to work and home, everyday for a lifetime could save nearly a whole day of sitting in the car.I always let the guy in the lane beside me, or the first car coming the other way lead off. If there is a clown coming across the junction after running the red lights, let them be the first ones to find out.
I wonder what kind of exciting high powered life the OP leads if he is so concerned about two whole seconds of it being wasted waiting for the red and amber to clear.
I can see no negatives to this mindset.
Perhaps it was wishful thinking to expect those commenting to read the previous posts…
Personally, I don’t set off until the lights are green and even then, I set off slowly. I’m in no rush to have someone go into the side of me, not to mention my clutches are expensive to replace and why would I knacker them?
As stated, I am asking the question as a friend asked me it and I didn’t know the answer.
FYI - swinging round in a junction isn’t illegal, but it is if it causes an issue to other road users which, unless done at 4am, is probably going to.
I know how traffic lights work and would like to think I also know the Highway Code - I was asking if anyone knows what red light cameras actually enforce, in light of my question.
I.E. if he set off when the red/amber light was showing, and crossed the line say a second before green, is he likely to get done by the camera?
Personally, I don’t set off until the lights are green and even then, I set off slowly. I’m in no rush to have someone go into the side of me, not to mention my clutches are expensive to replace and why would I knacker them?
As stated, I am asking the question as a friend asked me it and I didn’t know the answer.
FYI - swinging round in a junction isn’t illegal, but it is if it causes an issue to other road users which, unless done at 4am, is probably going to.
I know how traffic lights work and would like to think I also know the Highway Code - I was asking if anyone knows what red light cameras actually enforce, in light of my question.
I.E. if he set off when the red/amber light was showing, and crossed the line say a second before green, is he likely to get done by the camera?
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