Discussion
Spent 12 years in the mob and witnessed this type of behaviour on a few occasions, luckily I am a happy drunk and have a remarkable self preservation instinct.....Copper arrives on scene and I shut up and play nice, mate acts a c0ck so I have to placate him and drag him off, worked 9/10 times but when he tried to nick a train in Denmark it all went Pete Tong!
Ahh that smell of a Barmaids apron....
They are attuned to fighting but bear in mind Military Discipline.
From 3 years in the RAF Police (Provost) and 30 years patrolling the area around Catterick and other Air Force establishments (far superior)
best method of attack is to adopt the voice of RSM 'Tibbie' Brittain (ask Dad).. STAND TO ATTENTYUION YEW ORRIBLE MAN etc. They are like putty.
Fair does though having been sold down the river in Iraq by Blair my heart goes out to them........they are only bairns in a very adult and dangerous world to them.
dvd
They are attuned to fighting but bear in mind Military Discipline.
From 3 years in the RAF Police (Provost) and 30 years patrolling the area around Catterick and other Air Force establishments (far superior)
best method of attack is to adopt the voice of RSM 'Tibbie' Brittain (ask Dad).. STAND TO ATTENTYUION YEW ORRIBLE MAN etc. They are like putty.
Fair does though having been sold down the river in Iraq by Blair my heart goes out to them........they are only bairns in a very adult and dangerous world to them.
dvd
ive got a few mates who are squaddies, when i go out with their mates ive seen how it all goes wrong, infact every time ive been out with em they've ended up in a fight, thing is ive also done mixed martial arts (MMA)for a good few years and im only a skinny lad, and by no means "hard" but i by no means worry about some drunk squaddie...from what ive seen your average squaddie can barely throw a disaplined punch sober,let alone when drunk, its just the rowdiness that they have instilled and the rep that they feel they have to maintain. as police i hope you took em down a peg! their CO would of loved to of heard they'd assaulted an officer im sure!!!
Signals is not what I would really call one of our finest or meanest fightening forces though.
To be fair the forces do attract people from every walk of life, chances are Dizzee just met two complete Pr@cks who would probably be complete pr@cks if they were in the army or directors at LLoyds bank.
If they had seen serious action in Afghanistan they could be suffering from PTSD or shell shock, and drinking might help these guys to releive this. Was this in a garrison town, were there no MP's to contact or senior officers around that you could have contacted? Normally the RSM or other Senior NCO is enough to keep these guys in line.
I think you will find that every garrison town has had its fair share of saturday night bust ups between the squaddies the locals and the police.
JIMHO
To be fair the forces do attract people from every walk of life, chances are Dizzee just met two complete Pr@cks who would probably be complete pr@cks if they were in the army or directors at LLoyds bank.
If they had seen serious action in Afghanistan they could be suffering from PTSD or shell shock, and drinking might help these guys to releive this. Was this in a garrison town, were there no MP's to contact or senior officers around that you could have contacted? Normally the RSM or other Senior NCO is enough to keep these guys in line.
I think you will find that every garrison town has had its fair share of saturday night bust ups between the squaddies the locals and the police.
JIMHO
Whenever the braying classes bang on about 'national service' it's worth pointing out that the behaviour in the average garrison town is not exactly first rate...
Reminds me of when I was at Uni in Chatham, and three marines from the naval base started on my friend and his mate who were out for a takeaway after the pub. Unprovoked attack, because they were students, but what these three (very young) marines didn't know was that one of the students was a former junior all-england amateur middleweight champion in boxing - I'd love to know how they explained the bruises at the following day's parade
'beaten up by an art student, sarge'...
Reminds me of when I was at Uni in Chatham, and three marines from the naval base started on my friend and his mate who were out for a takeaway after the pub. Unprovoked attack, because they were students, but what these three (very young) marines didn't know was that one of the students was a former junior all-england amateur middleweight champion in boxing - I'd love to know how they explained the bruises at the following day's parade
'beaten up by an art student, sarge'...
Did you hand them over to the MP's. If I remember correctly, for being drunk and disorderly in public, even if in civvies, they'll get at least 28 days inside, but if assaulting a civvie Police Officer is added they could get a while in the Colchester 'glasshouse' and that's not something they'll easily forget!
well IMO its a natural instinct to "fight back" at someone who is accusing you of doing something you didnt do or dont belive is wrong to do! this becomes worse when drunk!
so this is a natural response to the situation and i think police officers need to start to take this into account and START TO USE DISCRETION otherwise the whole country will lose respect for the police and their authority(oops too late!!)
so this is a natural response to the situation and i think police officers need to start to take this into account and START TO USE DISCRETION otherwise the whole country will lose respect for the police and their authority(oops too late!!)
dont think it particularly helps that you get sent somewhere, which can only be descrbed as hell on earth (i.e Afghan or Iraq). Where the norm becomes you walk down the street one day and everyone friendly to the next day that person wanting to put a rocket propelled grenade up your arse, to walking down the street and wondering whether some sniper has his sights trained on you wanting to ventilate your brain.
Then end of tour, you return home, no-one understands what you been through and you just get dumped back onto civvy street and told when to return. Yes everybody has the choice The last thing you want is someone in your face.
Then factor into the equation all of the training and discipline they already receive, much more than in civvie life and the fact that this is sort of drilled into you then that you do need to be aggressive and not be able to back down. What makes you a better/mature solider is the ability to know when to apply all this. When you are young and inexperienced then you maybe missing some of this maturity and hence why you get the outbreaks you do.
Yes there are a few "rambo's" present but it is the few that give the many the bad name.
Whilst I dont agree with the actions nor the circumstances of these guys, and probably the drink not helping I hope I have in someway answered the original poster's questions.
Burgmeister, if you think you can do a better job, pull on a uniform and get involved. With an attitude like that you should apply for mine field detection. My bets are on you will be in the back of a landrover sobbing for mummy within 24 hours.
Then end of tour, you return home, no-one understands what you been through and you just get dumped back onto civvy street and told when to return. Yes everybody has the choice The last thing you want is someone in your face.
Then factor into the equation all of the training and discipline they already receive, much more than in civvie life and the fact that this is sort of drilled into you then that you do need to be aggressive and not be able to back down. What makes you a better/mature solider is the ability to know when to apply all this. When you are young and inexperienced then you maybe missing some of this maturity and hence why you get the outbreaks you do.
Yes there are a few "rambo's" present but it is the few that give the many the bad name.
Whilst I dont agree with the actions nor the circumstances of these guys, and probably the drink not helping I hope I have in someway answered the original poster's questions.
Burgmeister, if you think you can do a better job, pull on a uniform and get involved. With an attitude like that you should apply for mine field detection. My bets are on you will be in the back of a landrover sobbing for mummy within 24 hours.
My bobby mate told me an interesting story the other week. A guy has too much to drink and passes out in a pub. Police are called and he is arrested for being drunk and incapable. Pulls himself round and is transported to custody, where his occupation is stated: Royal Military Policeman. Doh!
People nowadays have a lot less time for the police and feel more hostile towards them generally, thats what you get when the government start passing unpopular laws. Cant help thinking recruiting standards have dropped in the Police as well
I used to be very pro police but experience in recent years has left me with the feeling i wouldnt p*ss on one if he was on fire. Wouldnt go out of my way to abuse one though
Lads will be lads whether in or out of uniform.
I used to be very pro police but experience in recent years has left me with the feeling i wouldnt p*ss on one if he was on fire. Wouldnt go out of my way to abuse one though
Lads will be lads whether in or out of uniform.
Don't think it's anything to do with what they've seen. I saw 3 severly mutilated bodies (1 dis-membered) in Lagos 6 weeks ago and didn't feel the need to get drunk and shout about it.
I think that unfortunately the police have lost all respect from the public for a great number of reasons. Some to do with the justice system not punishing people for the crimes they commit, some to do with target driven reaction and of course, the old fav on here - the war on the motorist. The police are the public face of the justice system and so are in the way of peoples real and perceived greivances. It's like screaming at the girl behind the counter when paying a parking fine in person - utterly misdirected. Wouldn't be a copper for anything due to the grief from every angle, though I imagine it could be a very rewarding job.
I think that unfortunately the police have lost all respect from the public for a great number of reasons. Some to do with the justice system not punishing people for the crimes they commit, some to do with target driven reaction and of course, the old fav on here - the war on the motorist. The police are the public face of the justice system and so are in the way of peoples real and perceived greivances. It's like screaming at the girl behind the counter when paying a parking fine in person - utterly misdirected. Wouldn't be a copper for anything due to the grief from every angle, though I imagine it could be a very rewarding job.
RaksP said:
well IMO its a natural instinct to "fight back" at someone who is accusing you of doing something you didnt do or dont belive is wrong to do! this becomes worse when drunk!
so this is a natural response to the situation and i think police officers need to start to take this into account and START TO USE DISCRETION otherwise the whole country will lose respect for the police and their authority(oops too late!!)
Reading the original and subsequent posts it looks like discretion WAS exercisd and nowhere do I see evidence of them being falsely accused.so this is a natural response to the situation and i think police officers need to start to take this into account and START TO USE DISCRETION otherwise the whole country will lose respect for the police and their authority(oops too late!!)
Could have been worse though. Imagine what might have happened if a copper with your powers of deduction had dealt with it
Anyway, no sympathy for the scaleys. They joined the Army and someone sent them to war? Shock, horror, surprise.
darren_S2 said:
dont think it particularly helps that you get sent somewhere, which can only be descrbed as hell on earth (i.e Afghan or Iraq). Where the norm becomes you walk down the street one day and everyone friendly to the next day that person wanting to put a rocket propelled grenade up your arse, to walking down the street and wondering whether some sniper has his sights trained on you wanting to ventilate your brain.
Then end of tour, you return home, no-one understands what you been through and you just get dumped back onto civvy street and told when to return. Yes everybody has the choice The last thing you want is someone in your face.
Then factor into the equation all of the training and discipline they already receive, much more than in civvie life and the fact that this is sort of drilled into you then that you do need to be aggressive and not be able to back down. What makes you a better/mature solider is the ability to know when to apply all this. When you are young and inexperienced then you maybe missing some of this maturity and hence why you get the outbreaks you do.
Yes there are a few "rambo's" present but it is the few that give the many the bad name.
Whilst I dont agree with the actions nor the circumstances of these guys, and probably the drink not helping I hope I have in someway answered the original poster's questions.
Burgmeister, if you think you can do a better job, pull on a uniform and get involved. With an attitude like that you should apply for mine field detection. My bets are on you will be in the back of a landrover sobbing for mummy within 24 hours.
This is very very true! Then end of tour, you return home, no-one understands what you been through and you just get dumped back onto civvy street and told when to return. Yes everybody has the choice The last thing you want is someone in your face.
Then factor into the equation all of the training and discipline they already receive, much more than in civvie life and the fact that this is sort of drilled into you then that you do need to be aggressive and not be able to back down. What makes you a better/mature solider is the ability to know when to apply all this. When you are young and inexperienced then you maybe missing some of this maturity and hence why you get the outbreaks you do.
Yes there are a few "rambo's" present but it is the few that give the many the bad name.
Whilst I dont agree with the actions nor the circumstances of these guys, and probably the drink not helping I hope I have in someway answered the original poster's questions.
Burgmeister, if you think you can do a better job, pull on a uniform and get involved. With an attitude like that you should apply for mine field detection. My bets are on you will be in the back of a landrover sobbing for mummy within 24 hours.
Remember that not all of them see action, some are just stuck on base which also can have the same sort of effect. Some people learn to deal with these things in different ways.
Dizeeee i agree with you on the professional respect though
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