Priorities Right?
Discussion
So, shoplifting (Thieving from shops!) is to be no longer a criminal offence and will be dealt with by way of an £80 FPN, according to one paper.
Speeding is £60 PFN plus 3 points towards loss of job, home and career.
I would, therefore, be at less risk to my lifestyle, job and career to be caught nicking a DVD player from Currys than for doing 35 mph at 02-00 hours in a 30 limit.
How much crazier are we going to allow our society to get?
Speeding is £60 PFN plus 3 points towards loss of job, home and career.
I would, therefore, be at less risk to my lifestyle, job and career to be caught nicking a DVD player from Currys than for doing 35 mph at 02-00 hours in a 30 limit.
How much crazier are we going to allow our society to get?
It's all leading to a total disrespect for the law and all it stands for.
30 to 40 years ago stealing was stealing, mugging was 'robbery with violence', if you got banned for a motoring offence(s) it was justified, 'life' for murder meant, probably, 25 years minimum, not many would drive whilst uninsured or disqual., and the Police Force were held in some esteem as friends of the average man.
Now, it 'Politically Correct' time, Human Rights are all that matters and the Police are becoming tools of a very undemocratic administration.
It's time the Police Federation, representing the ordinary police officer, spoke out. It is no good their simply saying that whilst they may not agree with the situation they are 'just enforcing the laws, good or bad'. Bad and stupid laws make for people ignoring those laws and a consequent disrepect for all laws. The anti-hunting legislation will be ignored resulting in the "police force in pursuit of the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable".
Of course it hasn't come to it yet, but the police in France in WW2 were just enforcing the law and doing their job when they arrested the Jews for handing over to the Gestapo. The American Police were just doing as ordered when they shot the anti-Vietnam war demonstrators in the late 60's and early 70's.
Unless the police become the friends of the public again rather than followers of a political agenda, relations between police and public will deteriorate further.
From the BiB's on here it is clear that they can see that what they are being instructed to do is not what people actually want them to do.
I'm 63 and have been driving for over 45 years. I never thought I would have to say this, but if I was disqualified for a few minor speeding offences I would have no alternative but to continue to drive. I minimise that risk by having the necessary countermeasures on board and by fitting a broken front number plate when on long journeys.
That's what it's come to. A shabby and undemocratic government supported by a bunch of Chief Constables for whom power and position are more important than doing their job (i.e. controlling crime) and a 'Policeman's Union' which won't speak up in support of the public's needs and beliefs.
30 to 40 years ago stealing was stealing, mugging was 'robbery with violence', if you got banned for a motoring offence(s) it was justified, 'life' for murder meant, probably, 25 years minimum, not many would drive whilst uninsured or disqual., and the Police Force were held in some esteem as friends of the average man.
Now, it 'Politically Correct' time, Human Rights are all that matters and the Police are becoming tools of a very undemocratic administration.
It's time the Police Federation, representing the ordinary police officer, spoke out. It is no good their simply saying that whilst they may not agree with the situation they are 'just enforcing the laws, good or bad'. Bad and stupid laws make for people ignoring those laws and a consequent disrepect for all laws. The anti-hunting legislation will be ignored resulting in the "police force in pursuit of the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable".
Of course it hasn't come to it yet, but the police in France in WW2 were just enforcing the law and doing their job when they arrested the Jews for handing over to the Gestapo. The American Police were just doing as ordered when they shot the anti-Vietnam war demonstrators in the late 60's and early 70's.
Unless the police become the friends of the public again rather than followers of a political agenda, relations between police and public will deteriorate further.
From the BiB's on here it is clear that they can see that what they are being instructed to do is not what people actually want them to do.
I'm 63 and have been driving for over 45 years. I never thought I would have to say this, but if I was disqualified for a few minor speeding offences I would have no alternative but to continue to drive. I minimise that risk by having the necessary countermeasures on board and by fitting a broken front number plate when on long journeys.
That's what it's come to. A shabby and undemocratic government supported by a bunch of Chief Constables for whom power and position are more important than doing their job (i.e. controlling crime) and a 'Policeman's Union' which won't speak up in support of the public's needs and beliefs.
[quote=
Cooperman. I bow to your total and utter common sense and statement of facts as they are
uppercase added for emphasis [text]
>> Edited by blademan on Monday 20th September 12:20[/quote]
Well, thank you Blademan.
To expand my own thoughts a bit more, if I may, I have held a licence to drive a motor vehicle since 1959 and in that time have been caught speeding 3 times, once in 1963, once in 1974 and once in 1988. I've had but one accident, in 1973 at 20 mph in Manchester. I drive around 20,000 per annum now, although when younger I used to do around 30,000 p.a. I never drink and drive.
Never, ever, did I think that I was at any risk of losing my licence through 'totting-up', but, although I still have a clean licence, I feel the need to take countermeasures to prevent the risk.
I have my cars registered to a couple of currently non-trading Limited companies which I can dissolve quickly in the event of NIP's arriving (this would leave the police to chase through the accountants). I have a duplicate licence so that I would always be able to drive abroad. I use a broken numberplate on the front when doing long journeys out of the areas I know well to defeat talivans and SPECS.
If I did lose my licence I would have to continue to drive without one, as I live in a village 35 miles from my office and with no suitable public transport system, or close down my office and business with the loss of 10 jobs.
Am I irresponsible? As a 63-year old grandad I would never have considered myself to be, but this is what the current bad application of the law has brought me to. If me, then how many others as well?
It is not only in road transport that the application of so-called 'politically desirable' laws is being applied. Hunting is the thin end of the wedge, free-speech is curtailed by anti-racist laws, new laws to prevent terrorism seem to be a 'catch-all' to control ordinary peoples lives to a greater degree and employment legislation controls who I can employ in my own company funded with my own personal assets.
IMHO the Police Federation must get the public back on 'their side' by presenting a united front to the Home Office via the Chief Constables and stating that they will no longer be used for political ends at the expense of the long-standing good relations between ordinary policemen and Mr. Average. I was brought up in an era when the policeman on the beat was a friend and someone who would help in any difficulty. Not so now. He/she is more concerned with meeting targets for prosecutions for minor offences committed by people who are unlikely to fight back. My daughter, for instance, who worked late shifts and arrived home at 02-00 hours and parked just on a double yellow line rather than walk the dark streets alone. She got a parking ticket from a patrol car at 05-00 hours and now considers the 'Old Bill' to be stupid and unfeeling people. Surely a note on the screen would have sufficed as a warning.
Boys-in-blue, you are missing the 'big picture' here, in which you are increasingly tools of a control-freak' administration.
Before you accuse me of being anti-police, I have a lot of friends who are serving or former officers. In fact I used to manage the Met Police Rally Team some years ago and met many super and dedicated officers at all levels.
Please BiB chaps, try to remember that we want to be on your side, do try to be on ours.
Cooperman. I bow to your total and utter common sense and statement of facts as they are
uppercase added for emphasis [text]
>> Edited by blademan on Monday 20th September 12:20[/quote]
Well, thank you Blademan.
To expand my own thoughts a bit more, if I may, I have held a licence to drive a motor vehicle since 1959 and in that time have been caught speeding 3 times, once in 1963, once in 1974 and once in 1988. I've had but one accident, in 1973 at 20 mph in Manchester. I drive around 20,000 per annum now, although when younger I used to do around 30,000 p.a. I never drink and drive.
Never, ever, did I think that I was at any risk of losing my licence through 'totting-up', but, although I still have a clean licence, I feel the need to take countermeasures to prevent the risk.
I have my cars registered to a couple of currently non-trading Limited companies which I can dissolve quickly in the event of NIP's arriving (this would leave the police to chase through the accountants). I have a duplicate licence so that I would always be able to drive abroad. I use a broken numberplate on the front when doing long journeys out of the areas I know well to defeat talivans and SPECS.
If I did lose my licence I would have to continue to drive without one, as I live in a village 35 miles from my office and with no suitable public transport system, or close down my office and business with the loss of 10 jobs.
Am I irresponsible? As a 63-year old grandad I would never have considered myself to be, but this is what the current bad application of the law has brought me to. If me, then how many others as well?
It is not only in road transport that the application of so-called 'politically desirable' laws is being applied. Hunting is the thin end of the wedge, free-speech is curtailed by anti-racist laws, new laws to prevent terrorism seem to be a 'catch-all' to control ordinary peoples lives to a greater degree and employment legislation controls who I can employ in my own company funded with my own personal assets.
IMHO the Police Federation must get the public back on 'their side' by presenting a united front to the Home Office via the Chief Constables and stating that they will no longer be used for political ends at the expense of the long-standing good relations between ordinary policemen and Mr. Average. I was brought up in an era when the policeman on the beat was a friend and someone who would help in any difficulty. Not so now. He/she is more concerned with meeting targets for prosecutions for minor offences committed by people who are unlikely to fight back. My daughter, for instance, who worked late shifts and arrived home at 02-00 hours and parked just on a double yellow line rather than walk the dark streets alone. She got a parking ticket from a patrol car at 05-00 hours and now considers the 'Old Bill' to be stupid and unfeeling people. Surely a note on the screen would have sufficed as a warning.
Boys-in-blue, you are missing the 'big picture' here, in which you are increasingly tools of a control-freak' administration.
Before you accuse me of being anti-police, I have a lot of friends who are serving or former officers. In fact I used to manage the Met Police Rally Team some years ago and met many super and dedicated officers at all levels.
Please BiB chaps, try to remember that we want to be on your side, do try to be on ours.
No, I don't know Peter Jackson, although I have heard of him.
Most of my buddies are from the world of rallying, as that was, and still is at amateur level now, my sport. Now, how long before B'liar and his cronies try to ban rallying, long distance motor cycle trials and other forms of motorsport which use the public roads to get from one stage or test to another? Will that be after they ban angling (cruel to the fishes), gliding (danger to powered aircraft), parachuting for fun (danger to those doing it), etc, etc.
We should remember the words of the Rev. Niemoller in Germany during WW2. I don't remember them exactly, but he said them after his release from a concentration camp. Something like this:
They came for the communists, but I said nothing as I'm not a communist.
They came for the trade unionists, but I said nothing as I'm not in a trades union.
They came for the Jews, but I said nothing as I'm not a Jew.
They came for the Roman Catholics, but I said nothing as I'm not a Roman Catholic.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to say anything.
Sorry if I've misquoted, I'm sure someone has the correct version, but this maybe gets the point across.
Sorry to be a bit deep at this time of the morning.
Peter
Most of my buddies are from the world of rallying, as that was, and still is at amateur level now, my sport. Now, how long before B'liar and his cronies try to ban rallying, long distance motor cycle trials and other forms of motorsport which use the public roads to get from one stage or test to another? Will that be after they ban angling (cruel to the fishes), gliding (danger to powered aircraft), parachuting for fun (danger to those doing it), etc, etc.
We should remember the words of the Rev. Niemoller in Germany during WW2. I don't remember them exactly, but he said them after his release from a concentration camp. Something like this:
They came for the communists, but I said nothing as I'm not a communist.
They came for the trade unionists, but I said nothing as I'm not in a trades union.
They came for the Jews, but I said nothing as I'm not a Jew.
They came for the Roman Catholics, but I said nothing as I'm not a Roman Catholic.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to say anything.
Sorry if I've misquoted, I'm sure someone has the correct version, but this maybe gets the point across.
Sorry to be a bit deep at this time of the morning.
Peter
[quote=BlackStuff]The quote was...
'First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist, so I said nothing. Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I was not a Social Democrat, so I did nothing. Then came the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did little. Then when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up for me.'
Pastor Martin Niemöller
Words that seem to get more poignant by the day...
Thanks for that, BlackStuff. Might have guessed you would have the full and correct version (did you have to look it up?).
It is getting serious though. The erosion of our democracy by the concentration on spiteful, politically motivated and useless laws, whilst more serious crimes and offences are dealt with ever more leniently is particularly worrying. The unwillingness or inability of the average police officer to actually see this is also of some concern, controlled as they are by Chief Constables who have their own pseudo-political agendas.
With the increasing use of technology to control our lives in so many different ways together with a 'control obsessed' government are we heading for, to quote Winston, 'a new dark age made more protracted by the lights of perverted science' in which our democratic rights are lost, but oh so gradually, until we are just a nation of brain dead TV-watchers.
Civil disobediance will undoubtedly increase. The huntsmen are not going to give it up, so how will this be enforced? Are the pensioners rebelling against unfair rises in their rates and refusing to pay petty offenders or freedom fighters? Are Captain Gatso and his associates burning down Gatsos just criminal damagers or fighters for justice and freedom?
Mr. Blair and cronies, to quote Winston again, 'you are sowing the wind and shall reap the whirlwind'.
The British Nazi (sorry, National) Party is gaining ground and this is frightening.
What a good morning for quotes! Got any more, Blackstuff and others.
Have I got it all completely wrong, I mean the ramblers now have the rights to trample over the crops, as I understand it?
'First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist, so I said nothing. Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I was not a Social Democrat, so I did nothing. Then came the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did little. Then when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up for me.'
Pastor Martin Niemöller
Words that seem to get more poignant by the day...
Thanks for that, BlackStuff. Might have guessed you would have the full and correct version (did you have to look it up?).
It is getting serious though. The erosion of our democracy by the concentration on spiteful, politically motivated and useless laws, whilst more serious crimes and offences are dealt with ever more leniently is particularly worrying. The unwillingness or inability of the average police officer to actually see this is also of some concern, controlled as they are by Chief Constables who have their own pseudo-political agendas.
With the increasing use of technology to control our lives in so many different ways together with a 'control obsessed' government are we heading for, to quote Winston, 'a new dark age made more protracted by the lights of perverted science' in which our democratic rights are lost, but oh so gradually, until we are just a nation of brain dead TV-watchers.
Civil disobediance will undoubtedly increase. The huntsmen are not going to give it up, so how will this be enforced? Are the pensioners rebelling against unfair rises in their rates and refusing to pay petty offenders or freedom fighters? Are Captain Gatso and his associates burning down Gatsos just criminal damagers or fighters for justice and freedom?
Mr. Blair and cronies, to quote Winston again, 'you are sowing the wind and shall reap the whirlwind'.
The British Nazi (sorry, National) Party is gaining ground and this is frightening.
What a good morning for quotes! Got any more, Blackstuff and others.
Have I got it all completely wrong, I mean the ramblers now have the rights to trample over the crops, as I understand it?
When you look at the 1940's history and compare the sort of leaders we had then (Lord Halifax excepted) and then look at the current shower it just shows why we are in some disarray.
It's not just speed cameras, it's the whole of society which is sliding. The obsession of the piticians with control by 'spin' and lies, the acceptance of declining family values, etc, etc.
I was thinking about single-parent families. I started school in January 1946 and a single parent family then was one in which the father had been killed in WW2. How different from now.
If our politicians don't 'get a grip' on reality soon the BNP will realy start to score, then who knows where that will lead us all.
It's not just speed cameras, it's the whole of society which is sliding. The obsession of the piticians with control by 'spin' and lies, the acceptance of declining family values, etc, etc.
I was thinking about single-parent families. I started school in January 1946 and a single parent family then was one in which the father had been killed in WW2. How different from now.
If our politicians don't 'get a grip' on reality soon the BNP will realy start to score, then who knows where that will lead us all.
autismuk said:
Yes...it's all a bit crazy....
The fixed penalty for the shoplifting...is an idea to free up police time..ie: a couple of hours processing time for a jar of coffee...
As for the government...you know who to vote next time..."keep it blue..."
Street
Street, I'm fascinated as to how this takes a "couple of hours processing time".
It's an interesting viewpoint, an FPN. If you shoplift expensive things you may make a profit
If only we could get back to calling crimes by their proper names, then applying the proper sentences:
Mugging = Robbery with Violence
Shoplifting = Robbery or Theft
Joy Riding = Car Theft
Aggrevated Burglary = Robbery with Violence
Serious Assalt = GBH With Intent
Now, 50 years ago all the above would have earned a prison sentence, usually known as 'Hard Labour', not some soft supervision order or community service. That's not lounging around in a cell watching TV or reading, it's breaking rocks on some open and cold moor. Those who came out did not want to go back in - ever wonder why. Because it was bloody unpleasant inside, that's why!
There is only one way to reduce crime and that is to make it very unpleasant when you get caught and to make it very likely that you will get caught. Policemen hiding in Talivans or chasing after huntsmen won't make it likely at all.
Of course, to decriminilise some acts of theft will make the crime figures look better and the Chief Constables and their 'friends' in the Home Office/Gov't will say how well the've done. It will also leave more space in the prisons for disqualified drivers who got 'pinged' at slightly over the limit a few times and had no option but to keep on driving in order to pay the mortgage and feed their kids, and for huntsmen who continue to hunt after this ludicrous and unnecessary ban takes force.
The attitude seems to be; 'Let's feel sorry for the violent criminals who didn't mean any real harm, but of course we can't have people ignoring politically motivated laws, now can we. They must be very severely punished'.
Well, stuff it, and stuff any members of the police service (mustn't call it a police force now) who act in support of this politically motivated legal system.
Policing is by consent, or at least it used to be, but the consent to police political laws is just not there and it must be resisted. The police officers and the public must become friends and allies again, or has political law driven such a huge wedge in already - I do hope not. Come on, BiB's, get onto your federation about all this.
Sorry to go on so. Maybe I'm becoming an anarchist in my old age. Tell me everything is wonderful and all will be right in the real England I still love.
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