Theft of goods from car in driveway

[97lude]

The initial message was deleted from this topic on 17 November 2015 at 18:05

[97lude]

OldGermanHeaps said:

So you are running a business without business insurance, without adequate security, do you have business insurance on the car and are you declaring this income to the hmrc? If all is legit, give it a go by all means nothing to lose but if you are breaking the law yourself i'd keep my mouth shut. And get better cctv. Its 2015, theres no excuse for st cctv. Want to buy some decent cctv? I got insurance and tax paperwork and everything.

Not really a business as out of the 23 that were stolen, 7 were from my personal collection, 6 were to give to friends at cost price as I got them dirt cheap, 4 were ready to swap with my friend for some of his and 6 were on eBay to sell for £10-£15 a pair to subsidise my purchases... Like I mentioned in my previous post, it's also a hobby, not really in it to make profit, just a bit of beer money on the side! Would the insurance company still see this as business use and invalidate my entire claim or would they pay out due to the circumstances and the fact that I've got CCTV and receipts for everything?

Also, with regards to the declaration of profits to HMRC on my self assessment, I hardly think it's worth it if I'm making £20-30 a month profit which goes straight towards my own purchases.

[97lude]

Mandat said:

Will your home insurance even entertain a claim involving theft from your car?

I don't know the ins and outs of insurance, but I would have thought that Direct Line will point you towards claiming off your car insurance policy.

Yes as it's on the driveway I believe it's covered, the only issue is whether they say it's for business use or not, which in my case there's no commercial motive and it's on the smallest scale imaginable..

[97lude]

Yes the car was definitely locked as I'm very particular about this. The police did say it's quite common nowadays for criminals to be able to get into a car without the original key by intercepting the signal when you lock the car or something along those lines. This issue is apparently very common with Ford Transits who the police said get broken into on a very regular basis without any evidence of forced entry.

[97lude]

Also another strange thing is that my passport was in my car overnight too. For some reason, they didn't take this or the 8th sitting next to it!

[97lude]

Would it have been a different story had my watch been stolen from my car, or my wallet? The point is something belonging to me, which I paid for with my hard earned money, which I can justify they weren't all to sell on, has been taken from my car. Knowing that someone has gained access and watching them on CCTV footage going through my personal possessions isn't the greatest of feelings. I've suffered a financial loss which I hope to be compensated for by my insurers, some of the trainers which were stolen are selling for >£200 per pair due to their exclusivity. I had three of these taken, which I am only claiming my cost price of £55 as they were genuinely from my own collection.

Like I mentioned in previous posts, several were surplus to mine and my friends requirements which is why they were due to be sold. We regularly get together and swap our (brand new) trainers for each others as they have old and rare stuff that I like, I have new and cheap stuff that they like. I would imagine the majority of the people who responded to this thread are of a slightly older generation to myself and are unable to grasp the concept that some trainers are appreciating assets, or even understand that people, including myself, are passionate about footwear.

[97lude]

paintman said:

OP based on what you have said in your posts - especially the first ones - I believe HMRC would take the view that you are running a business and are a trader.
Have a read through this: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/paying-...

"Selling goods or services
You could be classed as a trader if you sell goods or services. If you’re trading, you’re self-employed.
"What counts as trading

You’re likely to be trading if you:

sell regularly to make a profit
make items to sell for profit
sell online, at car boot sales or through classified adverts on a regular basis
earn commission from selling goods for other people
are paid for a service you provide

What doesn’t count as trading:
You’re probably not trading if you sell some unwanted items occasionally or you don’t plan to make a profit. You can’t use any losses you make as part of a hobby to reduce your tax bill."

Having read my original post again, I can understand why people would assume I'm trading "for a living" as it isn't worded very clearly. I buy two or three pairs at a time from high street retailers such as Nike / Footlocker etc on sale, I don't buy in bulk from a single supplier with the intention of distributing in huge quantities. I have paperwork to support all my purchases which I have forwarded on to the insurer in the hope that they will agree with my position and reimburse me for my loss.

[97lude]

Drumroll said:

So why keep them in your car?

Went to a friends house on Saturday where a group of us got together, bought our trainers along and exchanged / traded with each other, didn't get a chance to bring them back inside, your honour.

[97lude]

foreverme said:

Trainer party, wtf, i usually go down the pub with my mates , and i dont think one of them has the same size shoe as me..

As per my previous post:

" I have new and cheap stuff that they like. I would imagine the majority of the people who responded to this thread are of a slightly older generation to myself and are unable to grasp the concept that some trainers are appreciating assets, or even understand that people, including myself, are passionate about footwear."

At a guess, one would assume you fall into the category of "older generation"?

[97lude]

btcc123 said:

You will have a problem with the insurance company when they ask what happened.You say during the night someone broke into my car that was on the driveway without using forced entry and nicked 23 pairs of trainers worth £800.They will say so there is no evidence of a break in of your car,so cannot see this going well for you.

Had you read the thread without jumping to assumptions, you'll have noticed that there is CCTV footage showing the break in. Although it's not very clear, it still shows someone entering the car and rummaging around with a torch and then proceeding to walk towards the boot where the trainers were stored. I've also sent them copies of all my receipts / invoices to substantiate my claim.

[97lude]

Prizam said:

97lude said:

Drumroll said:

So why keep them in your car?

Went to a friends house on Saturday where a group of us got together, bought our trainers along and exchanged / traded with each other, didn't get a chance to bring them back inside, your honour.

You have got to be kidding right?

For some one who "set up a limited company with a turnover of approx £25-£30k pa" you sure do come across as a member of the traveller community.

You come across as a .

[97lude]

Pistonheads, where a judgemental group of old men completely miss the point that my car has been broken into and focus on the fact that I collect trainers, which apparently makes me a pik*y. Love it.

[97lude]

desolate said:

97lude said:

Pistonheads, where a judgemental group of old men completely miss the point that my car has been broken into and focus on the fact that I collect trainers, which apparently makes me a pik*y. Love it.

I may be old but as a point of order your car wasn't broken into. You left it open, or they got hold of your keys.



Anyway, I have tried to be helpful so, fk you.
Enjoy your footwear.

Tried to be helpful by accusing me of fraud? fk yourself fella, actually this may not be possible due to your age. I'm meticulous when it comes to locking my car. The same thing happened to my neighbour 6 months ago and a friend had his Merc stolen last year, both while the keys were in their possession so have you ever thought that this type of crime may exist? Maybe due your old age you're oblivious to the technological advances that have occurred in the last couple of decades.

[97lude]

Joeguard1990 said:

OP I feel your pain.

If you need any Jordans in a UK size 8 hit me up.

I love trainers just as much as I love cars, it's just one of things. Certainty doesn't make you a pi*ey as has been suggested.

It's a horrible feeling, I experienced the same disappointment a 10 year old having their Pokemon card collection stolen. Glad to see there are others who share my passion for trainers and thank you for your lovely gesture!

[97lude]

desolate said:

You have openly admitted that its business stock, fella.

Claiming on your home insurance in these circumstances is fraud, pure and simple. Loads of people do it and the chances of you getting a record because of it are minimal - so crack on.

But don't get all precious about it - I have tried to explain how best to get away with it - what more do you want?

If it isn't fraud - what is it?

Stock was the wrong word 'fella', I'm sure I acknowledged that in one of my previous posts and admitted it could have been misconstrued. Collection would have been a more suitable term. I wasn't asking for advice on how to "get away with it" as I had already reported the event to both my home insurance company and the police, I was seeking reassurance on the stance of the insurer given the unusual circumstances. I sincerely hope my explanation puts your mind at rest.

[97lude]

desolate said:

“Churchill: "Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?" Socialite: "My goodness, Mr. Churchill... Well, I suppose... we would have to discuss terms, of course... "
Churchill: "Would you sleep with me for five pounds?"
Socialite: "Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!" Churchill: "Madam, we've already established that. Now we are haggling about the price”



In your now deleted OP you stated you were doing it to subsidise your hobby. So trading to subsidise your collection. Trading.


Will leave you to it.

Give it a break! Surely the time you've spent posting on this particular thread could have been put to better use than trying to prove a non existent point to a stranger on the internet.

[97lude]

4rephill said:

97lude said:

I have deleted my initial message from this topic.

Is that because it didn't suit the version of the story that you're telling your insurance company?

TBH, reading your original post:

97lude said:

Hi,

To cut a long story short, last night someone broke into my car without using forced entry, spent a few minutes having a look inside and then proceeded to empty my boot of 23 pairs of trainers! Our CCTV isn't very clear but you can see the lights of the car turn on at approx 3am and someone inside the car with a torch having a rummage around and then opening the boot, clearing out the items and then driving off. The CCTV isn't very clear, you can't make out the the face or see their getaway car but you can definitely tell that there's someone in the car.

I have filed a claim with my home insurance company and have sent them paperwork and invoices for all the trainers (they are completely legit before any questions), I only started buying and selling on eBay a couple of weeks ago. My problem is would they consider this to be business use and invalidate my claim? I can't really afford to lose £800 worth of stock having just started, it's most of my investment gone out of the window! I wasn't doing it to make serious money, only making around £10-£15 on the side to subsidise the cost of my trainer purchases. Would Direct Line still consider this to be business use, or can i argue it's a genuine hobby as I do enjoy collecting trainers and I'm not really doing it as a proper business? I have obtained a crime ref number from the police who said they can't really do much without clear footage and now the claim is currently with the insurance assessor.

.....it does seem to come across as though you're attempting to perform a blatant insurance fraud and are changing your story as you go along to try to get away with it! (A word of advice: It's always best to try to stick to one story only as multiple versions of the same story tend to get insurance companies suspicious! )

97lude said:

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

Okay:

1) Stop trying to pretend you're not running a business when you blatantly are (Just because it's done through Ebay doesn't mean it's not a business!)

2) Try running your business legitimately and declare it to HMRC - You'll look like less of a dodgy pkey that way!

3) Stop trying to commit insurance fraud by lying to your insurance company about your lost stock "collection".

4) Find a more secure place to store your stock "collection".

5) Stop being ageist and having a pop at those on here who have seen through your plan to defraud your insurance company and your follow up lies to try to justify your story.

You need to realise that if the old fogies of PH can see through your story this easily then an insurance investigator isn't exactly going to need to do much overtime to do the same!

6)

97lude said:

Also another strange thing is that my passport was in my car overnight too.....

Don't leave your passport in your car!

7)

97lude said:

......For some reason they didn't take this or the 8th sitting next to it!

Drugs are for mugs you muppet!




Right! - Time to get My trainers on ( Brand new Nike Free 4.0 Flyknit iD from a guy at a trainer party! - Only £25! Bargain!), and get back to My job at Direct Line - I've got a fraud report to file! (Looks like I'll be home early tonight! )

This is the last message I'm going to post on this thread.

This is not a case of insurance fraud, I had trainers taken from my boot. If I had any intention of committing insurance fraud, my £1200 Macbook (which alone is similar to the total value of the theft), £3800 Rolex, £650 Gucci watch and £500 Citizen would also have "been stolen" from the car, along with my Ray Bans which were actually in the car but they didn't take. I don't have the time or inclination to commit to trainers as a business. Whether it's relevant or not, I earn more than most of the people posting on this thread through my existing business which takes up 6 days a week of my time, which I can only imagine will grow rapidly over the next couple of years if growth is consistent with previous months, so I don't need any surplus income. I have no need to commit insurance fraud, I'm simply attempting to be reimbursed for a genuine loss which I suffered. There was a genuine reason for the trainers being in my boot which I've explained to my claims handler, the ball is in their court to determine whether it's genuine or not. There's four ways they can interpret the events:

1) Dispute the theft ever occurred despite CCTV
2) Acknowledge the theft occurred as there's CCTV footage but deny that the trainers were actually taken
3) Acknowledge the theft occurred, agree that trainers were taken, deny my claim as a few of them were surplus to mine and my friends requirements so were due to be sold on eBay for a few quid profit in the event that nobody wanted to take them off me
4) Acknowledge that the theft occurred and reimburse me for a genuine loss which I have suffered

I hope common sense prevails and they choose option 4. It's not a huge amount of money, I make that in four days (or two good days) so although I can afford to take this loss, I shouldn't have to.