Amber to Red light - lorry.
Discussion
Hi I know the title might be a bit misleading I just have a question since I havent really looked into it as usually I'm a very sensible driver, however this morning around 7am I started my shift driving my dustcart and as we was approaching a junction the lights was green, about literally a metre away from the stop line the lights have turned to amber and I'm pretty sure my back wheels of the lorry crossed the white stop line at red as they changed quiet quickly, we obviously proceeded through the intersection before any other traffic moved off from the other side, I'm just curious how would the law enforcement look at this kind of situation, would they issue a nip for something so stupid?
To my defence it would be hard stopping in a car when your literally right next to the line, let alone a whole lorry with couple tonnes in the back, so I'm quiete not sure what to think of this one, has anyone had a similar incident?
To my defence it would be hard stopping in a car when your literally right next to the line, let alone a whole lorry with couple tonnes in the back, so I'm quiete not sure what to think of this one, has anyone had a similar incident?
I slowed down to about 15mph before the lights, when they turned amber you literally wouldn't stop in a car let alone a lorry, I have accelerated when I have went past the white stop line as I had to clear the intersection so that i wouldn't block anyonr, I did not speed when I say I have accelerated I went from about 15mph to 25mph.
There was no copper there, but there is a red light camera there, I'm unsure whenever It has flashed as it was quite bright.
The only thing I know is that there was also a car behind me that was quite close and if I was to perform an emergency stop due to the fact of me being too close to the lights I would have caused an accident.
There was no copper there, but there is a red light camera there, I'm unsure whenever It has flashed as it was quite bright.
The only thing I know is that there was also a car behind me that was quite close and if I was to perform an emergency stop due to the fact of me being too close to the lights I would have caused an accident.
SS2. said:
The offence is committed if any part of a vehicle proceeds beyond (over) the stop line when the red light is showing.
The amber to red phase is fixed at 3 seconds (+/- 0.25s).
How long is a dustbin lorry - 12m ?
At 15mph, and assuming the lights changed to amber with the front of the vehicle precisely at the stop line, the rear of the wagon would have cleared the line long before the lights had changed to red.
If there was a red light camera at the junction, there would have been a delay between the lights changing to red and the camera going active, thus allowing a little extra time to clear the line.
Yeah I'm just giving you rough speeds might have been a bit slower than 15mph I'm not 100% sure, I know it was nowhere near 30mph as I was turning right on that junction so I had to slow down regardless.The amber to red phase is fixed at 3 seconds (+/- 0.25s).
How long is a dustbin lorry - 12m ?
At 15mph, and assuming the lights changed to amber with the front of the vehicle precisely at the stop line, the rear of the wagon would have cleared the line long before the lights had changed to red.
If there was a red light camera at the junction, there would have been a delay between the lights changing to red and the camera going active, thus allowing a little extra time to clear the line.
I'm 100% certain 90% of my lorry has crossed on amber and when I was roughly in the middle of the intersection turning right (the intersection is quiete wide aswell) I seen the lights change from amber to red.
Coming back to the back wheels of the lorry crossing over the stop line after it has turned red, I'm pretty sure they did but maybe my head is just messing with me.
Either way I'll take the punishment if I have to after all I should have anticipated the lights going amber, I just thought instead of slamming on the breaks and potentially having an accident its better of proceeding through the junction considering it was literally 1meter if not a bit less away from the stop line.
Also even if I was to slam on the breaks I'm pretty sure the weight alone would push the lorry past the white stop line making it difficult for others to pass by coming from the other side.
jondude said:
It does sound to me like you will have the 14 day sweats to see if the camera says no to your move. All you can do is hope you made it across as it is unlikely the camera shows mercy BUT I think some if not all of them flash a little while after red and not dead on it, meaning you would have travelled even further before it flashed or would flash.
Others might know if that is true, I suspect it is so as to give some leeway in circumstances as yours and not encouraging emergency braking at lights.
We will find out in 14 days🤣 I'm just curious that all I havent looked into stuff like that as usually I'm very sensible with my driving after all I'm driving a "killing machine" if used by wrong hands.Others might know if that is true, I suspect it is so as to give some leeway in circumstances as yours and not encouraging emergency braking at lights.
TVR1 said:
So no dramas then. You’d already crossed the stop line. OP don’t stress yourself. You did the correct thing, especially if you knew there was a car behind you.
And BTW, you wouldn’t have caused an accident, if it happened....the driver behind would’ve.
Sounds like a sensible piece of driving from you.
Do you know how many reds I’ve jumped, with my pupils? Or received a NIP? 0
Do you know how many accidents I’ve had at Trafficlights ‘Cos pupils slammed on the brakes? 0
Do you know how many times I’ve said ‘keep going’ as the pupils foot moves to hit the brakes 1 car length from amber? And I’ve seen the 40 ton articulated lorry 1 metre behind us?
10,000
It’s fun, being a driving instructor!
Well done. Good driving
I just seen this comment, I wouldn't have the patience to be a driving instructor so good on you mate haha, as my driving instructor also told me when I was doing my HGV, once you hit your point of no return like I did today its safer to proceed through amber and clear the junction rather than slam on the breaks and that's what I go by.And BTW, you wouldn’t have caused an accident, if it happened....the driver behind would’ve.
Sounds like a sensible piece of driving from you.
Do you know how many reds I’ve jumped, with my pupils? Or received a NIP? 0
Do you know how many accidents I’ve had at Trafficlights ‘Cos pupils slammed on the brakes? 0
Do you know how many times I’ve said ‘keep going’ as the pupils foot moves to hit the brakes 1 car length from amber? And I’ve seen the 40 ton articulated lorry 1 metre behind us?
10,000
It’s fun, being a driving instructor!
Well done. Good driving
Edited by TVR1 on Thursday 3rd September 18:23
Guys there is no point arguing, I was just curious, also from what I have found out as I spoke to the examiner in my company about this, there is a leeway for lorries passing on amber, mistakes do happen and sometimes you can misjudge a space on a junction especially driving an arctic resulting in your trailer back wheels being still before the stop line, you cant simply just stop and not move the lorry to avoid tripping a sensor and avoiding a fine because you would just block the junction.
Anyone driving lorries knows there is a point of no return even if you was to perform an emergency stop you would go past the line anyway and could possibly have an accident with the person behind you.
Also the red light camera would need to flash you twice showing you clearly proceeding through the stop line on a red light and I believe if you only have the back wheels behind the stop line you would set off 1 picture?
I'm pretty sure these junctions with red light cameras are also monitored, you could probably quiete easily get away with it as anyone with common sense will see there was nothing you could do but go on amber light which then changed to red while your tractor unit was way past the line.
You have to remember your driving a 32tonne or 44tonne truck, it's not easy stopping the vehicle instantly even when you have slowed down before the lights, the weight itself pushes the vehicle forward.
Anyone driving lorries knows there is a point of no return even if you was to perform an emergency stop you would go past the line anyway and could possibly have an accident with the person behind you.
Also the red light camera would need to flash you twice showing you clearly proceeding through the stop line on a red light and I believe if you only have the back wheels behind the stop line you would set off 1 picture?
I'm pretty sure these junctions with red light cameras are also monitored, you could probably quiete easily get away with it as anyone with common sense will see there was nothing you could do but go on amber light which then changed to red while your tractor unit was way past the line.
You have to remember your driving a 32tonne or 44tonne truck, it's not easy stopping the vehicle instantly even when you have slowed down before the lights, the weight itself pushes the vehicle forward.
TVR1 said:
We’re not arguing. We’re having a civilised discussion about different interpretations of the law.
There’s many threads you can have an argument on.
I try to teach inertia. The forward momentum of weight versus stopping distance.
OP, I think I mentioned it a long time ago, on another thread but I do have (had) it’s no longer current, a B double/triple licence. Australia.
I try, as much as I can, to teach awareness, of other vehicles. Yours is a pussycat, In comparison. Lol.
It’s a talent that you have, make no mistake. Don’t put yourself down.
Hey, I think of myself as a great driver, lots of endorsements etc. I can drive anything.
The day I saw some old bugger reversing a B triple, into a pen (200 foot of trailers) with no corrections and no scratches, was my enlightenment.
Sounds like you love what you do!
I’ve a picture, somewhere, that I’ll try and find, me, B triple (with Dog obviously) smashing it through the back of the a
hole of beyond to The Highway from South Australia (Tailem Bend, City limits for triples) to Humpty Doo (Northern Territories)
Humpty Doo exist. I promise.
Fong Ding Road. That was my go to base.
Fair enough mate, I'm in the middle of doing my arctic training now, I'm only 21 so to actually be driving even dustcarts at that age and getting experience here in there UK it's a challange in its own as it's hard to get a job due to insurance policies wanting over 25+There’s many threads you can have an argument on.
I try to teach inertia. The forward momentum of weight versus stopping distance.
OP, I think I mentioned it a long time ago, on another thread but I do have (had) it’s no longer current, a B double/triple licence. Australia.
I try, as much as I can, to teach awareness, of other vehicles. Yours is a pussycat, In comparison. Lol.
It’s a talent that you have, make no mistake. Don’t put yourself down.
Hey, I think of myself as a great driver, lots of endorsements etc. I can drive anything.
The day I saw some old bugger reversing a B triple, into a pen (200 foot of trailers) with no corrections and no scratches, was my enlightenment.
Sounds like you love what you do!
I’ve a picture, somewhere, that I’ll try and find, me, B triple (with Dog obviously) smashing it through the back of the a
hole of beyond to The Highway from South Australia (Tailem Bend, City limits for triples) to Humpty Doo (Northern Territories)Humpty Doo exist. I promise.
Fong Ding Road. That was my go to base.
Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 5th September 21:55
I'll get there one day and join the big boys on the road haha.
I will let you guys know whenever I get a ticket or not, however I very highly doubt it considering the circumstances.
I just wanted to see opinions on this, like I said before if I done wrong I suppose I'm gonna have to take the punishment, however in my eyes I would of caused more trouble slamming on the breaks and possibly even then going over the line due to the weight of the vehicle.
Bare in mind I have just about cleared the junction before the other cars started moving off, meaning I didn't cause no obstruction to anyone.
I fully understand the law, however the law is not always designed to help out HGV drivers, it's more or less designed for cars. It's easy to say for a car driver that you should have cleared the junction before the lights turned from amber to red, bare in mind your speed in your car is 1 - quicker 2 - you can squeeze through gaps that lorry can only dream off 3 - accelerate much quicker.
Some people also misunderstood the point the lights were green when I was approaching them, they have literally turned to amber as I was about half a car length away from them, at that point there is not much you can do even in a car other than go for it, there was also a car infront of me which has just about went through on green, as soon as he has crossed the line it went amber and he simply accelerated to clear the junction.
If I was to take that turn at a higher speed i would risk flipping the lorry sideways, no one wants to deal with that, I'm pretty sure anything with common sense that reviews red light tickets would see that there is absolutely nothing you can do.
Slam on breaks = go over the line anyway, possibly cause an accident with the car behind you.
Go through = no accident, no obstruction to anyone, everyones happy, alright the back wheels quite possibly went on red, however as I said nothing you can do about that.
I just wanted to see opinions on this, like I said before if I done wrong I suppose I'm gonna have to take the punishment, however in my eyes I would of caused more trouble slamming on the breaks and possibly even then going over the line due to the weight of the vehicle.
Bare in mind I have just about cleared the junction before the other cars started moving off, meaning I didn't cause no obstruction to anyone.
I fully understand the law, however the law is not always designed to help out HGV drivers, it's more or less designed for cars. It's easy to say for a car driver that you should have cleared the junction before the lights turned from amber to red, bare in mind your speed in your car is 1 - quicker 2 - you can squeeze through gaps that lorry can only dream off 3 - accelerate much quicker.
Some people also misunderstood the point the lights were green when I was approaching them, they have literally turned to amber as I was about half a car length away from them, at that point there is not much you can do even in a car other than go for it, there was also a car infront of me which has just about went through on green, as soon as he has crossed the line it went amber and he simply accelerated to clear the junction.
If I was to take that turn at a higher speed i would risk flipping the lorry sideways, no one wants to deal with that, I'm pretty sure anything with common sense that reviews red light tickets would see that there is absolutely nothing you can do.
Slam on breaks = go over the line anyway, possibly cause an accident with the car behind you.
Go through = no accident, no obstruction to anyone, everyones happy, alright the back wheels quite possibly went on red, however as I said nothing you can do about that.
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