Tell me about British Leyland
Discussion
StuntmanMike said:
In the late eighties I worked as a mechanic. Non dealership so all second hand stuff.
Build quality and reliability BL were no worse than any other ( Ford, Vauxhall, Rootes, etc ) but for me they just made very undesirable cars.
A few exceptions but generally horrible things.
But what people forget is all cars in those days were pretty grim.
That's a very British perspective.Build quality and reliability BL were no worse than any other ( Ford, Vauxhall, Rootes, etc ) but for me they just made very undesirable cars.
A few exceptions but generally horrible things.
But what people forget is all cars in those days were pretty grim.
I have a late 80's Toyota MR2. Well put together, ecxellent handling, and epically reliable.
See also Datsun 1600 and 240z from 10-20 years earlier, Corllas, Celicas, sundry Italian twincams, etc.
From the late 60's onwards, British cars on the whole were antiquated, obsolete rubbish badly put together. But apparently that's what the average British motorist wanted.
Unfortunately, other parts of the world disagreed, exports died, and the rest is history.
One of my parent's friends had been in Far East during WW2 as a prisoner of the Japanese. When we chatted about cars he'd go on about Buying British and how he'd never buy a Japanese car. Absolutely no point arguing with him, mind made up.
He came around during the Easter holidays to show off his brand new Morris Marina which was he delighted with.
By the time I'd come back from Uni for the summer the Marina had gone (the back axle fell off) and he was driving a Datsun. I did ask him, ignoring dirty looks from my Dad, why he'd replaced it with a Japanese car and was rewarded with ten minutes moaning about bloody Commie Unions, idle British workers etc
I daresay he wasn't the only one to hold that opinion or to have that experience with a Marina
He came around during the Easter holidays to show off his brand new Morris Marina which was he delighted with.
By the time I'd come back from Uni for the summer the Marina had gone (the back axle fell off) and he was driving a Datsun. I did ask him, ignoring dirty looks from my Dad, why he'd replaced it with a Japanese car and was rewarded with ten minutes moaning about bloody Commie Unions, idle British workers etc
I daresay he wasn't the only one to hold that opinion or to have that experience with a Marina
Paul Dishman said:
One of my parent's friends had been in Far East during WW2 as a prisoner of the Japanese. When we chatted about cars he'd go on about Buying British and how he'd never buy a Japanese car. Absolutely no point arguing with him.
Friend’s parents were adamant never to get anything Japanese after father in law being a POW in WW2. But always drove Volkswagens!Paul Dishman said:
By the time I'd come back from Uni for the summer the Marina had gone (the back axle fell off) and he was driving a Datsun. I did ask him, ignoring dirty looks from my Dad, why he'd replaced it with a Japanese car and was rewarded with ten minutes moaning about bloody Commie Unions, idle British workers etc
Funny, a friend of mine in Atlanta used to work at a foreign car dealer in the 70's and 80's When a new Triumph or MG would roll in, the first thing they were told to do was to put the car on the lift and tighten all the nuts and bolts. He said that it helped keep some of the cars coming back so quickly.AW111 said:
That's a very British perspective.
I have a late 80's Toyota MR2. Well put together, ecxellent handling, and epically reliable.
See also Datsun 1600 and 240z from 10-20 years earlier, Corllas, Celicas, sundry Italian twincams, etc.
From the late 60's onwards, British cars on the whole were antiquated, obsolete rubbish badly put together. But apparently that's what the average British motorist wanted.
Unfortunately, other parts of the world disagreed, exports died, and the rest is history.
Badly put together yes, not all antiquated rubbish by any means. Marina, MGB and other sports cars yes.I have a late 80's Toyota MR2. Well put together, ecxellent handling, and epically reliable.
See also Datsun 1600 and 240z from 10-20 years earlier, Corllas, Celicas, sundry Italian twincams, etc.
From the late 60's onwards, British cars on the whole were antiquated, obsolete rubbish badly put together. But apparently that's what the average British motorist wanted.
Unfortunately, other parts of the world disagreed, exports died, and the rest is history.
But the Rover SD1, Triumph Stag and Range Rover were fundamentally good designs just appallingly assembled. If any of them had been canned like the Rover V8 sports car they would now be seen as massive missed opportunities to make a world beater.
Halmyre said:
The Rover wouls have been aimed at the luxury class market whereas the Princess was a family car.
Creating British Leyland was like putting a dozen feral cats in a bag and expecting them to get along.
Rover had a V8 and Triumph had 4 and 6 cylinder engines. So when Rover wanted 4 and 6 cylinder SD1s and Triumph wanted a V8 Stag, did they rationalise? No, they wouldn't be seen dead doing that, so they developed their own engines.
Rover had a mid-engined V8 coupe prototype. Oh no you don't, said Jaguar, and that got canned.
The story about Jaguar designing the XJ40 so that it couldn't take the Rover V8 is a myth, but Jaguar engineers told BL management that the V8 wouldn't fit, and nobody bothered to check.
In fairness, Triumph had done the majority of the development work on that V8 before Rover became part of British Leyland, I agree with the sentiment thoughCreating British Leyland was like putting a dozen feral cats in a bag and expecting them to get along.
Rover had a V8 and Triumph had 4 and 6 cylinder engines. So when Rover wanted 4 and 6 cylinder SD1s and Triumph wanted a V8 Stag, did they rationalise? No, they wouldn't be seen dead doing that, so they developed their own engines.
Rover had a mid-engined V8 coupe prototype. Oh no you don't, said Jaguar, and that got canned.
The story about Jaguar designing the XJ40 so that it couldn't take the Rover V8 is a myth, but Jaguar engineers told BL management that the V8 wouldn't fit, and nobody bothered to check.
AW111 said:
That's a very British perspective.
I have a late 80's Toyota MR2. Well put together, ecxellent handling, and epically reliable.
See also Datsun 1600 and 240z from 10-20 years earlier, Corllas, Celicas, sundry Italian twincams, etc.
From the late 60's onwards, British cars on the whole were antiquated, obsolete rubbish badly put together. But apparently that's what the average British motorist wanted.
Unfortunately, other parts of the world disagreed, exports died, and the rest is history.
There's an awful lot of hindsight in that. Jaguar made fast 12 cylinder saloons and coupes that won all their tests against BMW 7 series and Mercedes S classes. Lotus built a range of lightweight coupes, sports cars that led the world in handling. Jensen and Bristol built beautiful coupes for the wealthy, Aston's Vantage was one of the most powerful production cars made, Rover's SD1 and Range Rover were as good as anything on the market, and Triumph's range included the 16v Sprint, and the Stag. Even Leyland's fwd Princess, Allegro, Metro and even the Maxi were pretty advanced compared to dross like Mk2 Escorts, mk3 Cortinas, mk 2 Granadas and Root's efforts like the Avenger or Sunbeam.I have a late 80's Toyota MR2. Well put together, ecxellent handling, and epically reliable.
See also Datsun 1600 and 240z from 10-20 years earlier, Corllas, Celicas, sundry Italian twincams, etc.
From the late 60's onwards, British cars on the whole were antiquated, obsolete rubbish badly put together. But apparently that's what the average British motorist wanted.
Unfortunately, other parts of the world disagreed, exports died, and the rest is history.
Japanese cars from Datsun and Toyota were almost uniformly awful to drive, but came with the toys like a radio, vinyl roof and heated rear screen, and a reasonable chance of making it past their first MOT without needing rust repairs.
For sure, there were antiquated outliers like the MGB. Mini and Marina (was designed to be dirt cheap to build in any case) but the industry's problems were in building the cars to the quality and quantity the market demanded, not in their concepts or designs.
AW111 said:
StuntmanMike said:
In the late eighties I worked as a mechanic. Non dealership so all second hand stuff.
Build quality and reliability BL were no worse than any other ( Ford, Vauxhall, Rootes, etc ) but for me they just made very undesirable cars.
A few exceptions but generally horrible things.
But what people forget is all cars in those days were pretty grim.
That's a very British perspective.Build quality and reliability BL were no worse than any other ( Ford, Vauxhall, Rootes, etc ) but for me they just made very undesirable cars.
A few exceptions but generally horrible things.
But what people forget is all cars in those days were pretty grim.
I have a late 80's Toyota MR2. Well put together, ecxellent handling, and epically reliable.
See also Datsun 1600 and 240z from 10-20 years earlier, Corllas, Celicas, sundry Italian twincams, etc.
From the late 60's onwards, British cars on the whole were antiquated, obsolete rubbish badly put together. But apparently that's what the average British motorist wanted.
Unfortunately, other parts of the world disagreed, exports died, and the rest is history.
Times were different then, BL, Vauxhall, Ford then a smattering of other makes.
Japanese cars were largely seen as cheap junk that rusts, it took them years to shake that reputation, even though everything else rusted.
German cars were a cut above, but I think the rest of the world caught up in the nineties.
But it’s not a job I’ve done in thirty years so could be misremembering things.
Strange to think that German and Japanese cars were fairly rare on our roads once.
Buying a new car in the 70s and it was a question of when and where rust would appear, not if. Five digits were regarded as enough for an odometer. There is an early Fools and horses episode where someone is looking at a used car and is told it has 80,000 on the clock. 'Is that genuine'? asks Rodney, which is a joke because the idea of anyone winding the mileage back to such an extraordinary figure was absurd.
Dr Jekyll said:
Buying a new car in the 70s and it was a question of when and where rust would appear, not if. Five digits were regarded as enough for an odometer. There is an early Fools and horses episode where someone is looking at a used car and is told it has 80,000 on the clock. 'Is that genuine'? asks Rodney, which is a joke because the idea of anyone winding the mileage back to such an extraordinary figure was absurd.
35,000mls was a very popular mileage.Not too low to be suspicious.
StuntmanMike said:
Tbh, working in an independent in those days you simply didn’t get many Japanese cars, or German.
Times were different then, BL, Vauxhall, Ford then a smattering of other makes.
Japanese cars were largely seen as cheap junk that rusts, it took them years to shake that reputation, even though everything else rusted.
German cars were a cut above, but I think the rest of the world caught up in the nineties.
But it’s not a job I’ve done in thirty years so could be misremembering things.
Strange to think that German and Japanese cars were fairly rare on our roads once.
I remember it different. Up until the late 60's, British cars, Rootes or BMC products, were seen as better quality. Ford was big in the UK but seen as the 'big pennyworth', which is to say that it was thinner metal, plenty of chrome, good looks - Cortina and Capri. German & Japanese cars were considered to be rust prone, and they were. Then they caught up, and overtook. The rest of the world has caught up, a bit, but the gold standard remains Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW, Porsche. Times were different then, BL, Vauxhall, Ford then a smattering of other makes.
Japanese cars were largely seen as cheap junk that rusts, it took them years to shake that reputation, even though everything else rusted.
German cars were a cut above, but I think the rest of the world caught up in the nineties.
But it’s not a job I’ve done in thirty years so could be misremembering things.
Strange to think that German and Japanese cars were fairly rare on our roads once.
cardigankid said:
I remember it different. Up until the late 60's, British cars, Rootes or BMC products, were seen as better quality. Ford was big in the UK but seen as the 'big pennyworth', which is to say that it was thinner metal, plenty of chrome, good looks - Cortina and Capri. German & Japanese cars were considered to be rust prone, and they were. Then they caught up, and overtook. The rest of the world has caught up, a bit, but the gold standard remains Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW, Porsche.
And we know who got VW going again after the war..StuntmanMike said:
Tbh, working in an independent in those days you simply didn’t get many Japanese cars, or German.
Times were different then, BL, Vauxhall, Ford then a smattering of other makes.
Japanese cars were largely seen as cheap junk that rusts, it took them years to shake that reputation, even though everything else rusted.
German cars were a cut above, but I think the rest of the world caught up in the nineties.
But it’s not a job I’ve done in thirty years so could be misremembering things.
Strange to think that German and Japanese cars were fairly rare on our roads once.
One of my earliest memories is Dad bringing home a VW Beetle in early 1959 and our next-door neighbour saying that he’d never drive a German car.Times were different then, BL, Vauxhall, Ford then a smattering of other makes.
Japanese cars were largely seen as cheap junk that rusts, it took them years to shake that reputation, even though everything else rusted.
German cars were a cut above, but I think the rest of the world caught up in the nineties.
But it’s not a job I’ve done in thirty years so could be misremembering things.
Strange to think that German and Japanese cars were fairly rare on our roads once.
My father had a Rover P6 3500 automatic when we first moved to the UK. What an amazing car. Sadly, someone stole the seats out of it while it was parked in an underground(ish) garage and the insurance company wrote the car off. He bought a 1978 Datsun 120Y following that car. While it was basic and the metal was soft. It never EVER broke down which is amazing because my father is not a car guy and I can't remember him ever changing the oil. That car lasted about 4 years before he got rid of it because the wings were falling off and bought a Fiat 132. The fiat was much more of a luxury car with velour interior and electric windows but you never really knew if it was going to run or not.
By the 80's the Japanese cars were getting their act together. BL knew this which is why they did a deal with Honda on the Triumph Acclaim and later models. It was probably the smartest move they ever made. There wasn't much love for them in Europe and the UK because they were considered boring compared to European cars and many were. Being so reliable might have added to this.
In the US where I live now, they decimated the Detroit motor industry.
In the last decade, we've seen the Korean car manufacturers up their game to where they're building some very nice cars compared to what was available from Korea 20 years ago. They first competed on price and then once they got the quality figured out, they competed on quality. Right now, we should watch the Chinese who are already building cheap runabouts. When they figure out the quality, they will completely change the landscape.
By the 80's the Japanese cars were getting their act together. BL knew this which is why they did a deal with Honda on the Triumph Acclaim and later models. It was probably the smartest move they ever made. There wasn't much love for them in Europe and the UK because they were considered boring compared to European cars and many were. Being so reliable might have added to this.
In the US where I live now, they decimated the Detroit motor industry.
In the last decade, we've seen the Korean car manufacturers up their game to where they're building some very nice cars compared to what was available from Korea 20 years ago. They first competed on price and then once they got the quality figured out, they competed on quality. Right now, we should watch the Chinese who are already building cheap runabouts. When they figure out the quality, they will completely change the landscape.
Edited by alabbasi on Wednesday 21st October 21:40
saaby93 said:
cardigankid said:
I remember it different. Up until the late 60's, British cars, Rootes or BMC products, were seen as better quality. Ford was big in the UK but seen as the 'big pennyworth', which is to say that it was thinner metal, plenty of chrome, good looks - Cortina and Capri. German & Japanese cars were considered to be rust prone, and they were. Then they caught up, and overtook. The rest of the world has caught up, a bit, but the gold standard remains Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW, Porsche.
And we know who got VW going again after the war..Great thread, just read through most of it. My parents had two Allegro's in a row, both a couple of years old when they bought them - to be honest my memories of them were that they were pretty reliable. Even at age 6 though I was acutely aware that our 2 door 1300 Super estate was in no way stylish...
Our company used to have a sparky that had worked from '70 to '80 at BL on plant maintenance and production machine installation, covering Longbridge usually but sometimes Cofton Hackett and occasionally some of the other Brum based factories. He had more than a few tales to tell about what went on at the production lines, as I guess anyone from working there in that era would. He had a few choice words on Derek Robinson, though he did think that some of the tabloids made him out to be worse than he was.
One story that stood out for me was that in the first year he was there, he was involved in the installation of a crankshaft machining production cell, which was fully automated. Rough cast crankshaft in one end, fully finished part out the other, no human interaction other than start/stop controls. Two machines were built for BL and he was told cost £100k each (what could you have bought for that in 1970?!). However when both machines came to be installed, there wasn't the space to put both in and be usable - he thought most likely that only the footprint of each machine was considered rather than the operator space,walkway and service space etc.
So instead of rejigging the layout on the shop floor to fit both in, the process team decided to leave one machine outside, around the back of the factory. It never made a single part and soon became stripped of bits to keep the other machine going. Just looking an inflation calculator up, that's the equivalent of £3.5 million today, just left outside for scrap. Now I'm sure that over the 35ish years between it happening and him relating the story to me it would have probably gained a few bells and whistles, but still...
Someone early in the thread mentioned AP in Leamington Spa. I worked there for three years when the company I worked for bought the clutch side of the business (the same time that Caparo bought the brakes side), from 2006. There were a couple of old boys there who told stories of the noise of the rush of 3,000 employees heading for the gates at shift end being punctuated by a clang of clutch covers bouncing off the concrete when the string holding them around the necks of the employees seeking to make a bit more money let go and the parts exited from underneath their coat...
I also did work experience at Longbridge for a couple of weeks in the mid 90's, including a week in the rectification centre. Long past the BL days of course and fairly close to the end of Rover by then, but still an eye opener to a 17 year old who had never been in a car factory before. It felt night and day different to Honda (Swindon) when I first visited there a year or so later for work.
Our company used to have a sparky that had worked from '70 to '80 at BL on plant maintenance and production machine installation, covering Longbridge usually but sometimes Cofton Hackett and occasionally some of the other Brum based factories. He had more than a few tales to tell about what went on at the production lines, as I guess anyone from working there in that era would. He had a few choice words on Derek Robinson, though he did think that some of the tabloids made him out to be worse than he was.
One story that stood out for me was that in the first year he was there, he was involved in the installation of a crankshaft machining production cell, which was fully automated. Rough cast crankshaft in one end, fully finished part out the other, no human interaction other than start/stop controls. Two machines were built for BL and he was told cost £100k each (what could you have bought for that in 1970?!). However when both machines came to be installed, there wasn't the space to put both in and be usable - he thought most likely that only the footprint of each machine was considered rather than the operator space,walkway and service space etc.
So instead of rejigging the layout on the shop floor to fit both in, the process team decided to leave one machine outside, around the back of the factory. It never made a single part and soon became stripped of bits to keep the other machine going. Just looking an inflation calculator up, that's the equivalent of £3.5 million today, just left outside for scrap. Now I'm sure that over the 35ish years between it happening and him relating the story to me it would have probably gained a few bells and whistles, but still...
Someone early in the thread mentioned AP in Leamington Spa. I worked there for three years when the company I worked for bought the clutch side of the business (the same time that Caparo bought the brakes side), from 2006. There were a couple of old boys there who told stories of the noise of the rush of 3,000 employees heading for the gates at shift end being punctuated by a clang of clutch covers bouncing off the concrete when the string holding them around the necks of the employees seeking to make a bit more money let go and the parts exited from underneath their coat...
I also did work experience at Longbridge for a couple of weeks in the mid 90's, including a week in the rectification centre. Long past the BL days of course and fairly close to the end of Rover by then, but still an eye opener to a 17 year old who had never been in a car factory before. It felt night and day different to Honda (Swindon) when I first visited there a year or so later for work.
Edited by JBT on Wednesday 21st October 21:50
An interesting view of the decline of the British car industry - and the meteoric rise of the Chinese over the last 15 years ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZCeuTzc850&ab...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZCeuTzc850&ab...
Hadn't really clocked this thread but I have now, very interesting!
My father did an engineering apprenticeship with Austins from 1932 to 1936 and he remained utterly loyal to the marque almost to the day he died. In 1939 he was seconded to Fairey Aviation as Chief Draughtsman, his wheels were an Austin7 which he ran through the war, that was the first car I went in although Still a babe in arms then so no memories. New cars were all being exported after the war so his daily was his Lea Francis until his first new car, an Austin A40 Devon, followed by an A40 Somerset and then an A55 Cambridge, an A60 Cambridge, a Maxi 1500 and then a land crab. Company policy switched to Fords after that but my mother ran an Austin 1100 for many years until they bought a Peugeot 205 when they were getting very old. They all seemed pretty reliable but I remember them as uncomfortable wit indifferent gearboxes, the best was the land crab which went round corners amazingly well. In 1968 I was running a Honda S800, what a little jewel that was, made every single BL product look obsolete!
In the 70s I was selling Daimlers in the West End and I remember only too well the endless strikes, cars coming through with no spare because Dunlop were on strike, no radiator grilles, plastic windows, missing dash switches for the fuel tank switchover, it was endless. I used to go through every car that came into the showroom and clean out the screws and clips that were left all over the floor, I am still using them today half a century later! I remember going on a trip round Browns Lane, at the station where there were four 'workers' fitting all the under bonnet stuff only one was working, the other three were sitting around an orange box, with a big brown teapot, playing cards and studiously ignoring us. Company cars included an Austin 1300 which I rather liked, an Allegro 1300 whose gearbox made a noise like a demented mangle but it never broke, a Toledo which was a complete pile of junk, the gearbox broke and the clutch exploded - and then I went to the VAG network, what a difference. My wife had a Maxi 1500 which had a terrible shake and I was told that the cure for that was fitting shims between the front subframe and the body - at my expense as I had bought it unseen from a friend who I had trusted and it was out of warranty. My last brush with BL products was a Rover SD1 3500 VDP which was not very reliable, small but important things were always breaking or falling off, and when pushed round fast corners it developed a vertical pitch at the rear, not good. I was very pleased to be able to replace that with an Audi 100CD which ran like a metronome to 135k miles.
To sum up, some very indifferent products and some that deserved better, terrible management, terrible militant unions, poor quality control etc etc. As remarked earlier in this thread we had one of the biggest motor industries on the planet - until we threw it all down the drain. Since then the Japanese have helped us rebuilt it and we are about to throw it down the drain again, we have learned nothing!!
My father did an engineering apprenticeship with Austins from 1932 to 1936 and he remained utterly loyal to the marque almost to the day he died. In 1939 he was seconded to Fairey Aviation as Chief Draughtsman, his wheels were an Austin7 which he ran through the war, that was the first car I went in although Still a babe in arms then so no memories. New cars were all being exported after the war so his daily was his Lea Francis until his first new car, an Austin A40 Devon, followed by an A40 Somerset and then an A55 Cambridge, an A60 Cambridge, a Maxi 1500 and then a land crab. Company policy switched to Fords after that but my mother ran an Austin 1100 for many years until they bought a Peugeot 205 when they were getting very old. They all seemed pretty reliable but I remember them as uncomfortable wit indifferent gearboxes, the best was the land crab which went round corners amazingly well. In 1968 I was running a Honda S800, what a little jewel that was, made every single BL product look obsolete!
In the 70s I was selling Daimlers in the West End and I remember only too well the endless strikes, cars coming through with no spare because Dunlop were on strike, no radiator grilles, plastic windows, missing dash switches for the fuel tank switchover, it was endless. I used to go through every car that came into the showroom and clean out the screws and clips that were left all over the floor, I am still using them today half a century later! I remember going on a trip round Browns Lane, at the station where there were four 'workers' fitting all the under bonnet stuff only one was working, the other three were sitting around an orange box, with a big brown teapot, playing cards and studiously ignoring us. Company cars included an Austin 1300 which I rather liked, an Allegro 1300 whose gearbox made a noise like a demented mangle but it never broke, a Toledo which was a complete pile of junk, the gearbox broke and the clutch exploded - and then I went to the VAG network, what a difference. My wife had a Maxi 1500 which had a terrible shake and I was told that the cure for that was fitting shims between the front subframe and the body - at my expense as I had bought it unseen from a friend who I had trusted and it was out of warranty. My last brush with BL products was a Rover SD1 3500 VDP which was not very reliable, small but important things were always breaking or falling off, and when pushed round fast corners it developed a vertical pitch at the rear, not good. I was very pleased to be able to replace that with an Audi 100CD which ran like a metronome to 135k miles.
To sum up, some very indifferent products and some that deserved better, terrible management, terrible militant unions, poor quality control etc etc. As remarked earlier in this thread we had one of the biggest motor industries on the planet - until we threw it all down the drain. Since then the Japanese have helped us rebuilt it and we are about to throw it down the drain again, we have learned nothing!!
Dr Jekyll said:
As I understood it, the 1100/1300 series did well against the Cortina with private owners but fleet buyers wanted basic reliable and RWD but more modern than the Morris Minor.
So the idea was to rebody the Morris Minor and keep the Austin name for FWD cars and Morris for what at the time was seen as more conventional technology. So the 1300 was replaces by the Allegro, which was purely Austin without Morris MG Wolseley or Vanden Plas versions. I'm not sure of the exact timing but the Minor replacement was enlarged to compete with the Cortina MK3, or for the same reason the Cortina 3 was enlarged over the 2, and it became the Marina still with bits of Minor in it.
The Allegro was ruined by last minute design changes and as you say, by the lack of a hatchback.
It's tempting to think of the Cortina as the Mondeo of it's day. But the early ones were 1200cc and available as a two door.
More like a contemporary Fiesta with the Anglia as the Ka. Then the Anglia was replaced by the Escort and the Cortina Mk2 by the 3 as a general upsizing.
Not strictly true. While MK1 and early MK2 Cortinas could have 1,200cc, there was also a 1,500cc model if you paid more. And a GT version, or even a Lotus Cortina if you had deep pockets!So the idea was to rebody the Morris Minor and keep the Austin name for FWD cars and Morris for what at the time was seen as more conventional technology. So the 1300 was replaces by the Allegro, which was purely Austin without Morris MG Wolseley or Vanden Plas versions. I'm not sure of the exact timing but the Minor replacement was enlarged to compete with the Cortina MK3, or for the same reason the Cortina 3 was enlarged over the 2, and it became the Marina still with bits of Minor in it.
The Allegro was ruined by last minute design changes and as you say, by the lack of a hatchback.
It's tempting to think of the Cortina as the Mondeo of it's day. But the early ones were 1200cc and available as a two door.
More like a contemporary Fiesta with the Anglia as the Ka. Then the Anglia was replaced by the Escort and the Cortina Mk2 by the 3 as a general upsizing.
Then BMC eventually put a 1.3 litre engine in the 1100 shell.
But around the same time Ford started fitting the 1,300cc and 1,600cc cross-flow in the MK2 Cortina, with the option of a 1,600GT.
Strange that nobody has mentioned Italian cars yet!
Fiat put their 125 saloon on the market in 1967.
The first production car with a twin-cam engine driven by a rubber belt, 4 wheel disc brakes and if you bought the 125 Special a 5 speed gearbox! It made pretty much all the UK produced cars look antiquated.
And before everyone gets onto rust the 9 year old one I sold had much less than the 9 year old Cortina it replaced, and less than the 7 year old Rover that replaced it!
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