Engineer and proud?
Discussion
but then I've also taken Analyst; Developer; Designer; Consultant... An engineer is usually a skilled person who is practical/well qualified and had a lot of respect.
Today every one is an engineer/technician. Food technicial anyone?
One of my best days at work was when a Dj who was difficult to please walked into the workshop and congratulated us on building one of the best radio studio's he had used.
Thease days engineers are Shite, No respect and most of them no nothing about anything. There are a few good ones left but not many.
at least thats in my industry
Today every one is an engineer/technician. Food technicial anyone?
One of my best days at work was when a Dj who was difficult to please walked into the workshop and congratulated us on building one of the best radio studio's he had used.
Thease days engineers are Shite, No respect and most of them no nothing about anything. There are a few good ones left but not many.
at least thats in my industry
sleep envy said:
Very good future in that career path
You'd think so wouldn't you, I can't seem to find a bloody job and it is most annoying, and before you ask it's not cos I haven't got a good degree got high 2:1 MEng and have industrial experience.
Think it is because maybe I am too picky as I really want to be in the automotive industry, but I don't really want to get into a job that I am not interested in.
Incidentally I find it quite annoying when people ask me if I am going to be a mechanic when I say I have been doing mechanical engineering, engineer is a term that is bandied about for lots of jobs these days, even the chap who comes and mends the boiler is a heating engineer - thats a technician surely. It may be a bit snobby but I think that to be an engineer you need to have a proper degree (or at least a lot of vocational experience with all the relevant theory) and are a member of the relevant institution i.e IMechE etc
david87M3 said:
An engineer is usually a skilled person who is practical/well qualified and had a lot of respect.
Today every one is an engineer/technician. Food technicial anyone?
One of my best days at work was when a Dj who was difficult to please walked into the workshop and congratulated us on building one of the best radio studio's he had used.
Thease days engineers are Shite, No respect and most of them no nothing about anything. There are a few good ones left but not many.
at least thats in my industry
Today every one is an engineer/technician. Food technicial anyone?
One of my best days at work was when a Dj who was difficult to please walked into the workshop and congratulated us on building one of the best radio studio's he had used.
Thease days engineers are Shite, No respect and most of them no nothing about anything. There are a few good ones left but not many.
at least thats in my industry
Thanks, think you like many are getting confused with what an engineer is.
Smart Roadster said:
Graduate engineers should all be taken out and battered as most couldn't specify a washer with out help
And how do you suppose that we are to get the relevant experience to be able to make informed decisions as you describe? We'd be a bit stuck in a few years wouldn't we if we had no graduate engineer's.
Nice to see lots of people have nice well informed non-biased opinions on here.
RR-Eng said:
The other reason engineers are poorly paid relative to other professions is because we are generally part of the cost base. If you look at most engineering companies one of their largest costs will be their wages bill. Hence there is a pressure to keep this down. Additionally if you start to pay engineers more all the other staff at the company (even if they are non value adding, not critical to the companies future prosperity) they tend to complain and demand the same salary. You could demand higher salaries for enigneers if they were a restricted profession though, see above.
If you are an actuary or a merchant banker you might be dealing with a pension fund or a merger of a multi-billion pound business. Thus the trustees of the fund/business don't really care if you take 0.01% of the cost of the fund to estimate the funds value or administer the merger of two companies its nothing to them. But when that 0.01% is spread out over two or three people it becomes lottery money wages.
Hence the only way to become a rich engineer is:
1. Get into an industry where individual engineers can make a big difference, and there is competition between companies. Formula 1 springs to mind where the top engineers get paid millions, fly around in private jets, have publicists and marry Hollywood stars.
2. Own your own IP, one good invention and you can licence it or own your own company. Fairly risky strategy
3. Work your way up the ladder, the top engineer at R-R earns something like £700K, this is long term solution and it has no guarantee of working.
If you are an actuary or a merchant banker you might be dealing with a pension fund or a merger of a multi-billion pound business. Thus the trustees of the fund/business don't really care if you take 0.01% of the cost of the fund to estimate the funds value or administer the merger of two companies its nothing to them. But when that 0.01% is spread out over two or three people it becomes lottery money wages.
Hence the only way to become a rich engineer is:
1. Get into an industry where individual engineers can make a big difference, and there is competition between companies. Formula 1 springs to mind where the top engineers get paid millions, fly around in private jets, have publicists and marry Hollywood stars.
2. Own your own IP, one good invention and you can licence it or own your own company. Fairly risky strategy
3. Work your way up the ladder, the top engineer at R-R earns something like £700K, this is long term solution and it has no guarantee of working.
I think that's a very accurate summary. I also think we don't do ourselves any favours when we apply for the "glamour" jobs. Plenty of high calibre engineers would take a job at Ferrari for peanuts.
I have a degree in engineering (Mech Eng) and I work in the water industry.
So, I can fairly safely say, I'm an engineer.
The pay is shit (wish I was an accountant) and no, job satisfaction is not compensation.
I wish our institutions would get off their collective arses and demand that the term Engineer is protected and made a registered profession (like a chartered accountant etc).
No chartered engineer = no signoff = no insurance.
Andy
So, I can fairly safely say, I'm an engineer.
The pay is shit (wish I was an accountant) and no, job satisfaction is not compensation.
I wish our institutions would get off their collective arses and demand that the term Engineer is protected and made a registered profession (like a chartered accountant etc).
No chartered engineer = no signoff = no insurance.
Andy
I'm a building services engineer, have a BEng and am registered with CIBSE and Energy Institute and frankly I love the job.
I am not, however, proud to call myself an engineer. I've been in the dating game for the past couple of years or so and I've learnt the hard way that I should always keep quiet about my profession. The last girl I described myself as an engineer to wanted to know if I fixed photocopiers or washing machines. Despite the fact that in a recent employment survey I noticed that professional engineers were lumped together with lawyers and doctors, engineering has a horrendeous image problem.
I am not, however, proud to call myself an engineer. I've been in the dating game for the past couple of years or so and I've learnt the hard way that I should always keep quiet about my profession. The last girl I described myself as an engineer to wanted to know if I fixed photocopiers or washing machines. Despite the fact that in a recent employment survey I noticed that professional engineers were lumped together with lawyers and doctors, engineering has a horrendeous image problem.
As for the cost base thing nail hit on head. But who do the accounts/pen pushers turn to when their money generating machines break down? what a lot of compaies forget it it takes everyone to make the company run. A few gentle reminders are often required.
Engineers are usually not likes beacuse we are not good at doing speeches/presentations and talking corprate gobshite, Nor do most of us dress smart for work beacuse we usually end up knee high in shite fixing something.
One engineer I use to work with was told he didng get respect cos he didnt dress smart......
Why should accounts people get more £££ fair enough we cant do their job but they cant do ours...........
Engineers are usually not likes beacuse we are not good at doing speeches/presentations and talking corprate gobshite, Nor do most of us dress smart for work beacuse we usually end up knee high in shite fixing something.
One engineer I use to work with was told he didng get respect cos he didnt dress smart......
Why should accounts people get more £££ fair enough we cant do their job but they cant do ours...........
bales said:
sleep envy said:
Very good future in that career path
You'd think so wouldn't you, I can't seem to find a bloody job and it is most annoying, and before you ask it's not cos I haven't got a good degree got high 2:1 MEng and have industrial experience.
Think it is because maybe I am too picky as I really want to be in the automotive industry, but I don't really want to get into a job that I am not interested in.
Incidentally I find it quite annoying when people ask me if I am going to be a mechanic when I say I have been doing mechanical engineering, engineer is a term that is bandied about for lots of jobs these days, even the chap who comes and mends the boiler is a heating engineer - thats a technician surely. It may be a bit snobby but I think that to be an engineer you need to have a proper degree (or at least a lot of vocational experience with all the relevant theory) and are a member of the relevant institution i.e IMechE etc
I am completely with you. I have a Beng an 9 years exp desiging x-ray machines. The wages (relatively) are crap, and I can't seem to find a job that will pay as well as the one I have now. Everyone else that works in my company hasn't a clue about our technology and even though I understand it and have a degree does not really respect the Engineering department either.
Why is Engineering so badly thought of? If we didn't do a good job the rest of the company would not have a product to sell/ service / account for etc...
Anyone without and Engineering Degree is not a true Engineer IMO. (But I will acknowledge that there are some very talented blokes out there without degrees before you all flame me!)
It is a shame that Engineers in the UK are so lowly in the food chain.
I do enjoy my job a lot of the time though!
Cheers,
Steve
Smart Roadster said:
.
Graduate engineers should all be taken out and battered as most couldn't specify a washer with out help
Graduate engineers should all be taken out and battered as most couldn't specify a washer with out help
Well done, you've generalised an entire industry into one little task. Before you ask, I'm a mechanical design engineer, I have a degree and years of experience. Saying most graduate engineers are hopeless at specifying components is like saying most sportsmen are crap at skydiving, you can't expect everyone to know everything about everything.
ewenm said:
ceebmoj said:
why does Software engineer not count?
Because it's Modern Languages, not Engineering (I'm a software developer).
Engineering = physical stuff. Software doesn't fit.
Ok I have to disagree I am a member of number of professional bodies well on my way to chartered status have a degree (not that it means much) granted software is not in the traditional scope of engineering.
However engineering is solving of non trivial problems with a combination of the most suitable tools / products / original work available to you. Hence a good engineer is some one who can do this well regardless of qualifications and experience.
This probably means that there is an element of engineering in many more tasks than most think software being one area that can still really benefit form the instruction of a more traditional engineering methods and practices.
If you have ever read the “mythical man month” one of the points that’s sticks with me the most is the similarity between soft where projects and any other project in terms of organisation and the requirement for the solution to be correctly engineered. In fact because of the nature of software and the inherent ability to change things the temptation is hi to just hack stuff together maybe there is a grater need for engendering principles to be applied.
Ps
I like the idea of it being Modern Languages though
Well i concider my self as an engineer though not degree qualified. There is no degree in broadcast engineering. A lot fo the other engineers I have worked with are not degree qualified.
I have however done the job for 14 years. I do have city and giulds qualifications in electronic servicing of analog/digital electronics (got distinction in all sections).
I think we dont sell our selvs very well some engineers can be pretty stubborn/miserable gits to deal with
I have however done the job for 14 years. I do have city and giulds qualifications in electronic servicing of analog/digital electronics (got distinction in all sections).
I think we dont sell our selvs very well some engineers can be pretty stubborn/miserable gits to deal with
ewenm said:
ceebmoj said:
Paul-C said:
timmy30 said:
Financial engineer? Software engineer? Do these count?
Absolutely, categorically not.
why does Software engineer not count?
Because it's Modern Languages, not Engineering (I'm a software developer).
Engineering = physical stuff. Software doesn't fit.
...and thankyou Sir for completely highlighting why "engineering" and "engineers" in this country are so without respect, misunderstood and generally ignored and abused by the Great British Public.
Im going to say this just once, very slowly and in big letter so you fully understand...
ENGINEERING DOES NOT EQUAL PHYSICAL STUFF! NOT.NADA.NO WAY.
At some pt this country will move on from f**king Victorian ideas about racing steam engines across the country.
Engineering is about using your brains to design, create, perfect, craft, see produced and ultimately solving problems. Physical production is/should be done by Technicians and craftsmen, a Production Engineer should have designed the process and means of the production. Now, that isnt demeaning craftsmen...no engineer worth their brain cells would do that...but it is delineating the job. By not establishing the differences you ultimately demean both jobs.
For my sins, I am indeed an engineer.
ceebmoj said:
However engineering is solving of non trivial problems with a combination of the most suitable tools / products / original work available to you. Hence a good engineer is some one who can do this well regardless of qualifications and experience.
That is a very good description puts your point across very nicely. In fact I think that is one of the better descriptions of an engineer that I have heard.
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