Discussion
This seems too nuanced to be enforced in the way that it is.
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/enforcing...
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/enforcing...
otolith said:
This seems too nuanced to be enforced in the way that it is.
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/enforcing...
Presumably this information is correct and, if it is, I apologise to all that I thought were incorrect because I am wrong. Apparently, what I thought was an obvious example of poor forethought is legal https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/enforcing...
"...
The movement
Many people mistakenly believe that if you are stopped in a box, then you are guilty. However, it is not that simple. The regulations state:
“a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.”
There are two key takeaways from this:
“Cause a vehicle to enter” means that the offence is committed at the moment you enter the box. If when you enter your exit is clear, but circumstances change afterwards, such as a vehicle changing lanes and blocking your exit, then there is no offence.
“Due to the presence of stationary vehicles” means that If you stop for another reason, for example a red light, or to let a pedestrian cross the road, there is no offence.
Adjudication decisions have found in favour of motorists on both these issues.
Oh well...
Starfighter said:
Exactly.
Local authorities providing a single picture of a car in a box have not provided evidence of an offence.
It appears you are absolutely correct, which is a bit of an odd conundrum, as until I left the UK in '98 I taught my students to never enter unless they were 100% sure to be able to complete. None ever failed as a result. Nor was the approach mentioned in any of the advanced driving tests I passed at the highest levels.Local authorities providing a single picture of a car in a box have not provided evidence of an offence.
The fact that ten cars can move forward, even in the knowledge that oncoming vehicles are indicating left and will definitely block the road that vehicles intend to turn right into, is still beyond my comprehension, but my apologies for ever doubting those that were correcting me.
Another one...
Here's a real world example which caught me out the other day.
https://goo.gl/maps/8gTGhZyw8EuUogRaA
My traffic lights were on green. I proceeded over the white line. There was no way to escape the box junction safely, so I stopped my vehicle just before the entrance to the box junction, unfortunately straddling the pelican crossing.
Before I could proceed across (and escape) the box junction, the same traffic lights I had followed previously turned to red. An escape route then opened from the box junction.
What would I be officially expected to do? Given that I had crossed the white line to which the traffic lights pertained, would I be permitted to proceed across the box junction with that red light very visible? Or would this be considered a red light jump?
The other complication is that, as I understand, I should not be straddling the pedestrian crossing.
Highway Code §192 - In slow-moving and queuing traffic you should keep crossings completely clear, as blocking these makes it difficult and dangerous for pedestrians to cross. You should not enter a pedestrian crossing if you are unable to completely clear the crossing. Nor should you block advanced stop lines for cycles.
The above suggests to me that stopping across and blocking a pedestrian crossing is advised against (and could contribute to a careless driving charge), but would not necessarily, in isolation, be an endorseable offence.
What I actually did was remain straddling the pedestrian crossing, apologising profusely to the pedestrians who were having to walk around my (thankfully soft top) car, before proceeding when said lights (which likely did not apply to me) turned green.
Here's a real world example which caught me out the other day.
https://goo.gl/maps/8gTGhZyw8EuUogRaA
My traffic lights were on green. I proceeded over the white line. There was no way to escape the box junction safely, so I stopped my vehicle just before the entrance to the box junction, unfortunately straddling the pelican crossing.
Before I could proceed across (and escape) the box junction, the same traffic lights I had followed previously turned to red. An escape route then opened from the box junction.
What would I be officially expected to do? Given that I had crossed the white line to which the traffic lights pertained, would I be permitted to proceed across the box junction with that red light very visible? Or would this be considered a red light jump?
The other complication is that, as I understand, I should not be straddling the pedestrian crossing.
Highway Code §192 - In slow-moving and queuing traffic you should keep crossings completely clear, as blocking these makes it difficult and dangerous for pedestrians to cross. You should not enter a pedestrian crossing if you are unable to completely clear the crossing. Nor should you block advanced stop lines for cycles.
The above suggests to me that stopping across and blocking a pedestrian crossing is advised against (and could contribute to a careless driving charge), but would not necessarily, in isolation, be an endorseable offence.
What I actually did was remain straddling the pedestrian crossing, apologising profusely to the pedestrians who were having to walk around my (thankfully soft top) car, before proceeding when said lights (which likely did not apply to me) turned green.
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