The PH Gun Cabinet - Shooting Matters
Discussion
NDA said:
I had pheasant the other evening - breasts cooked in a chestnut, cream and mushroom sauce.... delicious. It reminded me that I should eat more of it.
My wife gave me an air fryer for Christmas, and last weekend I did breaded pheasant breast, marinated in buttermilk and with a herby panko breadcrumb mix. Was like a tastier, healthier version of fried chicken!
Many pheasants will be unearthed from the chest freezer in the shed, now...
This is why I like the idea of small DIY rough shoots, from what I've seen the bag usually amounts to around 1-2 birds per gun, so everyone takes a couple and should be able to make use of them.
I'm no vegan or activist but I think sustainability and respect for the wildlife is an important factor, so only shooting within the limits of what you can use seems the best way if possible
I'm no vegan or activist but I think sustainability and respect for the wildlife is an important factor, so only shooting within the limits of what you can use seems the best way if possible
I do get the notion of the odd bird being lost.
What I saw was 9 birds floating down under a bridge & some below.
Allowing for some getting caught up in bankside trees etc there were probably more.
I was walking upstream anyway to check out the prospects of a day's grayling fishing, within about 1/2 mile there was a pile of feathers & footprints where someone had stood to throw them in.
The group were having their drinks a little further upstream.
I decided against meeting up & passing an opinion as I could see the headlines ' Nosy old bugger meets with shooting accident`.
I'm with Smithy as the whole sport now seems skewed to catering for those who want to pretend to be Edward VIII & have bottomless pockets.
Out of interest I found this report
https://www.gwct.org.uk/media/1251254/Gamebird-Rel...
Looks like a tenfold increase in releases since 1960 - not sure if it's viable to increase this further.
What I saw was 9 birds floating down under a bridge & some below.
Allowing for some getting caught up in bankside trees etc there were probably more.
I was walking upstream anyway to check out the prospects of a day's grayling fishing, within about 1/2 mile there was a pile of feathers & footprints where someone had stood to throw them in.
The group were having their drinks a little further upstream.
I decided against meeting up & passing an opinion as I could see the headlines ' Nosy old bugger meets with shooting accident`.
I'm with Smithy as the whole sport now seems skewed to catering for those who want to pretend to be Edward VIII & have bottomless pockets.
Out of interest I found this report
https://www.gwct.org.uk/media/1251254/Gamebird-Rel...
Looks like a tenfold increase in releases since 1960 - not sure if it's viable to increase this further.
Not doubting what you saw, but it does sound odd.
For those unfamiliar a quick explanation as to why I wouldn’t expect this to be the norm.
on our small informal days, nearly all the game is distributed & taken home to eat by people who regularly come together & shoot.
On our larger paid days the shooters rarely handle the birds until presented with a brace to take home at the end after the “bag” is counted . The shoot’s employ “picker uppers” who bring everything to be tallied up after hoovering them up with teams of dogs.
Roughly it costs somewhere about £35- £50 per bird if you shoot more than you’re booked in for (you usually do!!). so the Shoot misses out with “overage charges” for anything not gathered up & presented at end of day. (This makes it more odd for birds to be dumped during the shoot itself if folk still out)
The only thing I’m wondering is if they were birds overlooked from a previous shoot (Eg left in back of Landrover) which does sometimes happen, and someone has had to dispose of them (could not enter food chain or be included within other shooters totals).
There are some country folks who do believe putting dead things in rivers is a good thing for insect & subsequently fish life…
For those unfamiliar a quick explanation as to why I wouldn’t expect this to be the norm.
on our small informal days, nearly all the game is distributed & taken home to eat by people who regularly come together & shoot.
On our larger paid days the shooters rarely handle the birds until presented with a brace to take home at the end after the “bag” is counted . The shoot’s employ “picker uppers” who bring everything to be tallied up after hoovering them up with teams of dogs.
Roughly it costs somewhere about £35- £50 per bird if you shoot more than you’re booked in for (you usually do!!). so the Shoot misses out with “overage charges” for anything not gathered up & presented at end of day. (This makes it more odd for birds to be dumped during the shoot itself if folk still out)
The only thing I’m wondering is if they were birds overlooked from a previous shoot (Eg left in back of Landrover) which does sometimes happen, and someone has had to dispose of them (could not enter food chain or be included within other shooters totals).
There are some country folks who do believe putting dead things in rivers is a good thing for insect & subsequently fish life…
Does anyone have experience with sharing a cabinet with another SGC holder?
My dad's currently applying for his SGC having been borrowing my spare gun (that he bought, if that makes sense..) when we shoot together.. He's applying for his own SGC now so we can shoot separately and he can buy his own gun(s), cartridges etc.
Rather than installing another cabinet it'd be easier if we shared mine, so would he then need all of the guns contained on his license too, as he would technically have access to all of them?
My dad's currently applying for his SGC having been borrowing my spare gun (that he bought, if that makes sense..) when we shoot together.. He's applying for his own SGC now so we can shoot separately and he can buy his own gun(s), cartridges etc.
Rather than installing another cabinet it'd be easier if we shared mine, so would he then need all of the guns contained on his license too, as he would technically have access to all of them?
smithyithy said:
Does anyone have experience with sharing a cabinet with another SGC holder?
Rather than installing another cabinet it'd be easier if we shared mine, so would he then need all of the guns contained on his license too, as he would technically have access to all of them?
YesRather than installing another cabinet it'd be easier if we shared mine, so would he then need all of the guns contained on his license too, as he would technically have access to all of them?
Had (& still have) 1 shared shotgun, we both have access to that cabinet on the farm which also has air rifle (Scotland!)
The FLO suggested this was correct approach when I applied back in the day & has just been renewed ever since.
That shotgun is on both our certs so we don’t have to transfer from one to the other - it can live with me sometimes depending on use as I have my own cabinet & other guns. (He does not have access to them as FAC & don’t think you can share them)
smithyithy said:
Ah cheers. I've got a feeling that I need to share my guns onto his license, so we have shared access to the cabinet and won't need separate security for different guns etc. probably be simpler that way if the officer agrees
Shotguns are not recorded on a SGC in the same way that Section 1 firearms are on FAC, as mentioned above. You can't have shared cabinet access with another FAC holder, unless all Section 1 firearms in the cabinet are on both FAC certs.If cabinet is shotguns only it's not the same situation, so it depends what is held in the cabinet.
M1AGM said:
I was on a shoot yesterday and the estate has gone back to lead. There was talk of other shoots around the area also going back to lead. So I am presuming (perhaps wrongly) that the move to steel was/is voluntary and not legislated?
https://basc.org.uk/new-consultation-launched-on-lead-ammunition/Lots of committee work still to do. But the Scandinavians have done it, so it's probably coming. But maybe not for a while
Edited by The_Doc on Wednesday 10th January 13:49
The_Doc said:
https://basc.org.uk/new-consultation-launched-on-l...
Lots of committee work still to do. But the Scandinavians have done it, so it's probably coming. But maybe not for a while
I thought Norway was reverting to lead, lifting a previous ban, and that Sweden are resisting any further ban (by EU) beyond wetlands shooting.Lots of committee work still to do. But the Scandinavians have done it, so it's probably coming. But maybe not for a while
Edited by The_Doc on Wednesday 10th January 13:49
My info might be out of date, and/or my memory poor.
beagrizzly said:
The_Doc said:
https://basc.org.uk/new-consultation-launched-on-l...
Lots of committee work still to do. But the Scandinavians have done it, so it's probably coming. But maybe not for a while
I thought Norway was reverting to lead, lifting a previous ban, and that Sweden are resisting any further ban (by EU) beyond wetlands shooting.Lots of committee work still to do. But the Scandinavians have done it, so it's probably coming. But maybe not for a while
Edited by The_Doc on Wednesday 10th January 13:49
My info might be out of date, and/or my memory poor.
"Currently, Denmark and The Netherlands have total bans on the use of lead shotgun ammunition. A further 16 countries have specific bans on the use of lead shotgun ammunition over wetlands or for hunting waterbirds and 5 have partial restrictions limited to certain wetlands. However, from 15 February 2023 the use and possession of lead shotgun ammunition was prohibited over and within 100 m of all wetlands in the European Union. No country in Europe has banned the use of lead rifle ammunition, but its use is restricted in some regions of Germany (Schleswig Holstein, Baden-Württemberg and Saarland). In 2020 the Danish government, with support from the Danish Hunters' Association, announced that Denmark will prohibit the use of lead rifle ammunition for hunting in 2023 (Kanstrup et al. 2021)."
quoted from this paper: https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.10...
The lead author (Matthew Ellis) is employed by the British Association for Shooting & Conservation (BASC) and is chair of the European Federation for Hunting and Conservation's (FACE) ammunition working group.
M1AGM said:
I was on a shoot yesterday and the estate has gone back to lead. There was talk of other shoots around the area also going back to lead. So I am presuming (perhaps wrongly) that the move to steel was/is voluntary and not legislated?
That might be a commercial decision rather than a ballistic one. Shoots like Ripley Castle only use steel and it won't affect bookingsMajority of shoots can't afford to be fussy. If they've got teams who have older guns; insist on using lead or have slabs to use up then I guess they'll go with the flow.
oddman said:
That might be a commercial decision rather than a ballistic one. Shoots like Ripley Castle only use steel and it won't affect bookings
Majority of shoots can't afford to be fussy. If they've got teams who have older guns; insist on using lead or have slabs to use up then I guess they'll go with the flow.
This was at Garrowby so I very much doubt it was/is a commercial decision. The conversation was around the concern of clean kills, apparently steel goes straight through the bird sometimes resulting in the bird flying on and dying slowly out of sight of the beaters and dogs. I cant say personally if that is true as I’m no expert in ballistics but the shoot manager and some of the very experienced guns were of that view. There was also talk of steel shot getting embedded into trees and being a problem for chainsaws, plus the rusting.Majority of shoots can't afford to be fussy. If they've got teams who have older guns; insist on using lead or have slabs to use up then I guess they'll go with the flow.
M1AGM said:
This was at Garrowby so I very much doubt it was/is a commercial decision. The conversation was around the concern of clean kills, apparently steel goes straight through the bird sometimes resulting in the bird flying on and dying slowly out of sight of the beaters and dogs. I cant say personally if that is true as I’m no expert in ballistics but the shoot manager and some of the very experienced guns were of that view. There was also talk of steel shot getting embedded into trees and being a problem for chainsaws, plus the rusting.
I can see how steel could present a challenge on a high bird shoot. Perhaps this is where any difference between 34-36g of No 3 or 4 of lead or steel would really show. Must be really miserable for the pickers up and not great for the dogs chasing around loads of runners. If birds are getting killed but not picked and counted it might become commercial issue. Maybe their eyes should be opened to the ethics of presenting birds at and beyond the end of range regardless of load. I've been on a duck shoot where the shoot owner/manager wanted lead used because too many bleeding/crippled birds with steel. This was when birds went to continent he's changed his tune since then.
At the limit of my ability steel works as well as lead.
Good evening Gentlemen.
I was back in Blighty a couple of weeks ago following my trip to Spain over Xmas and was immediately ill as - upon return. FFS - very I’ll.
Tomorrow morning. Off down to Malmo’s (my nearest gun shop) to buy a slab of cartridges.
A quick blast back up the M6 after, turn right and I’ll be soon at Crabtree Clayshoot (my local)
Of course the weather forecast is bloody awful being Cumbria and all. But it won’t ruin my enjoyment. If the weather is that bad - I may do DTL under cover.
But if it’s not that bad, get the wellies on and just enjoy being outside on the sporting and have a good shoot!
I can’t wait. March last year since I last shot, with all the delays over my licence renewal…
It’s been a long wait!
I was back in Blighty a couple of weeks ago following my trip to Spain over Xmas and was immediately ill as - upon return. FFS - very I’ll.
Tomorrow morning. Off down to Malmo’s (my nearest gun shop) to buy a slab of cartridges.
A quick blast back up the M6 after, turn right and I’ll be soon at Crabtree Clayshoot (my local)
Of course the weather forecast is bloody awful being Cumbria and all. But it won’t ruin my enjoyment. If the weather is that bad - I may do DTL under cover.
But if it’s not that bad, get the wellies on and just enjoy being outside on the sporting and have a good shoot!
I can’t wait. March last year since I last shot, with all the delays over my licence renewal…
It’s been a long wait!
Man sentenced for firearms offences at Buckingham Palace
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-6803...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-6803...
BBC news article said:
"He had pleaded guilty to possessing a prohibited weapon - a stun gun found in his home - as well as possessing a knife in a public place.
He also admitted three counts of possessing ammunition for a firearm without a certificate and possessing an offensive weapon."
This is new to me. I was under the impression that you needed a shotgun certificate to buy shotgun ammunition but no certificate was required to own/keep it. Last year while Surrey Police were taking an age to process my renewal, I lodged my guns with an RFD but kept the ammunition at home. My FEO came to visit me before granting the new certificate, but never asked (and I never thought to mention) that I still had a few thousand cartridges knocking about. Has something changed recently? Renewal was granted and my guns are back where they belong in my cabinet.He also admitted three counts of possessing ammunition for a firearm without a certificate and possessing an offensive weapon."
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