The Running Thread Vol 2

[egor110]

If you did a marathon this weekend then had a 50k start of july how would you train for it ?

Would you start a marathon plan or 50k plan , would you start from scratch again or jump in half way thru ?

Would you do back to backs for 50k or just follow the marathon plan but make the long run nearer full marathon distance?

[rastapasta]

Smitters said:

wrencho said:

Does anyone have experience of this...or similar....

https://apexrunning.co/events/ultratrailsnowdonia#...

What level of fitness is required?
What level of experience running in the mountains is required?
What kit is required? (type of shoe/walking poles etc)

I'm really tempted to do something off road and not massively dictated by pace and time.

Ideally, lots, lots and lots.

The 14 hour limit for 31 miles is a big hint at toughness. That's ~2.5mph.

I would definitely encourage you to do trail ultras, but even the 50k is definitely a deep deep-end. That course will require significantly more than a marathon plan and a bit of hills. You'll need to be proficient with a map and compass, confident you can make good decisions if you have, or see an accident and have enough kit to keep you safe if you end up having to wait in one spot.

I'm not saying "don't" in any way, just trying to be honest.

Definitely watch 47 Copa to get a taste of Snowdonia too...

+1 the man speaks the truth. A neighbour ran in a 60km version in Baden the other week and out of the 70 that started only 20 in her category finished and she ended up placing. I was wondering what she was up to as her runs on strava were becoming very extreme. Not one to be taken lightly this, I would build up to this race for a couple of years, to be able to enjoy the experience if nothing else.

[egor110]

wrencho said:

So maybe not one for a first time trail marathon then!?! :-)

Why not do a endurancelife/trail events Snowdon race ?

Then you can dip your toe in the water and do either half or full marathon and see how you get on .

[Smitters]

wrencho said:

So maybe not one for a first time trail marathon then!?! :-)

Possibly not - depends on how fit you are now, how experienced as a hill walker and so on.

There are loads of less extreme trail marathons to get you started. Unless it's a very fast course, even a trail half can easily see you out and about for 2 1/2 hours or more. There are many popular events in the Brecons and even without big elevation, lots of trail events are very challenging purely because they're just never flat, or over difficult terrain, or have a million stiles.

They also vary a lot in organisation level. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but you can go from full corporate mega-events like Race to the Tower/Stones etc, and you pay plenty, but get great support and infrastructure, or you can go low key and be told there is only water at checkpoints.

One thing in guaranteed. You definitely don't worry about your mile splits...

[RizzoTheRat]

If you're after a longish trail race take a look at Man v Horse. 22 miles in the Brecon Beacons. Quite a few people dropping out and offering places for transfer via the Facebeook page either as a solo or a 3 person relay

I did the 3rd leg of the relay a couple of years back and it was the most fun race I've done. Was supposed to be doing a relay this year and my wife soloing but we've had to pull out and sold our places.

[wrencho]

Smitters said:

One thing in guaranteed. You definitely don't worry about your mile splits...

Really good advice from everyone so thank you....

Not worrying about mile splits is the big draw really. I love "racing" and training to "race" but it would be nice to enjoy it for what it is once in a while.

[egor110]

wrencho said:

Smitters said:

One thing in guaranteed. You definitely don't worry about your mile splits...

Really good advice from everyone so thank you....

Not worrying about mile splits is the big draw really. I love "racing" and training to "race" but it would be nice to enjoy it for what it is once in a while.

Look for a half marathon or marathon on snowdon and see how that goes then you'll know what needs working on for the ultra .

[smn159]

wrencho said:

Does anyone have experience of this...or similar....

https://apexrunning.co/events/ultratrailsnowdonia#...

What level of fitness is required?
What level of experience running in the mountains is required?
What kit is required? (type of shoe/walking poles etc)

I'm really tempted to do something off road and not massively dictated by pace and time.

Might as well get your name down now for this

http://www.bobgrahamclub.org.uk/index.php?page=reg...

[Smitters]

egor110 said:

If you did a marathon this weekend then had a 50k start of july how would you train for it ?

Would you start a marathon plan or 50k plan , would you start from scratch again or jump in half way thru ?

Would you do back to backs for 50k or just follow the marathon plan but make the long run nearer full marathon distance?

I'd work backwards from start of taper and forward from after a few weeks of rest (assuming you raced hard). Aim to increase from time of longest run in marathon training up to about 70-80% of expected 50k finish time, focusing on kit, race nutrition and as much relevant terrain as possible.

Personal choice, but I do 3x per week, so I'd also do 8-13 miles on run 2 easy (with hills if a hilly 50k) and 10k, with the middle 6k at half marathon race pace, wu and cd easy.

In reality, it's only six weeks of training with recovry and taper as bookends, so it's just topping up the endurance.

[egor110]

Smitters said:

egor110 said:

If you did a marathon this weekend then had a 50k start of july how would you train for it ?

Would you start a marathon plan or 50k plan , would you start from scratch again or jump in half way thru ?

Would you do back to backs for 50k or just follow the marathon plan but make the long run nearer full marathon distance?

I'd work backwards from start of taper and forward from after a few weeks of rest (assuming you raced hard). Aim to increase from time of longest run in marathon training up to about 70-80% of expected 50k finish time, focusing on kit, race nutrition and as much relevant terrain as possible.

Personal choice, but I do 3x per week, so I'd also do 8-13 miles on run 2 easy (with hills if a hilly 50k) and 10k, with the middle 6k at half marathon race pace, wu and cd easy.

In reality, it's only six weeks of training with recovry and taper as bookends, so it's just topping up the endurance.

It's 9 weeks until the 50k .

Terrains not a problem live on quantocks and exmoor nearby and normally in Cornwall for a weekend each month .

[bigandclever]

wrencho said:

So maybe not one for a first time trail marathon then!?! :-)

Got to start somewhere

[egor110]

bigandclever said:

wrencho said:

So maybe not one for a first time trail marathon then!?! :-)

Got to start somewhere

But you don't learn to box by sparring with the heavyweight champion.

[bigandclever]

egor110 said:

bigandclever said:

wrencho said:

So maybe not one for a first time trail marathon then!?! :-)

Got to start somewhere

But you don't learn to box by sparring with the heavyweight champion.

Bah, where's your sense of adventure.

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

bigandclever said:

egor110 said:

bigandclever said:

wrencho said:

So maybe not one for a first time trail marathon then!?! :-)

Got to start somewhere

But you don't learn to box by sparring with the heavyweight champion.

Bah, where's your sense of adventure.

[ukbabz]

Dipping my toes back into running after a winter of recovery following surgery in November. I've built up a good chunk of base fitness back on the road bike since.

I've signed up for the Oxford Half in October, so I figured I'd actually try a training program this time around (winged a 1hr42 at Reading Half with stupidity 4 days before the op). Has anyone tried the Garmin plans? They're meant to tailor to you over time which sounded better than the more formulaic ones. I've decided to try for a sub 100 minute target, as its a nice round number

[rastapasta]

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

bigandclever said:

egor110 said:

bigandclever said:

wrencho said:

So maybe not one for a first time trail marathon then!?! :-)

Got to start somewhere

But you don't learn to box by sparring with the heavyweight champion.

Bah, where's your sense of adventure.

'...that cactus is right....'

[joshcowin]

ukbabz said:

Dipping my toes back into running after a winter of recovery following surgery in November. I've built up a good chunk of base fitness back on the road bike since.

I've signed up for the Oxford Half in October, so I figured I'd actually try a training program this time around (winged a 1hr42 at Reading Half with stupidity 4 days before the op). Has anyone tried the Garmin plans? They're meant to tailor to you over time which sounded better than the more formulaic ones. I've decided to try for a sub 100 minute target, as its a nice round number

I have used them not great imo too complicated.

Used a really basic plan for a 90min HM this year

Mon - Bike or rest
Tue- 40mins easy
Wed-off road run 40-60mins (hilly)
Thurs-Bike or rest
Fri- Interval session (3x5km was my go to amazing session for HM prep)
Sat-Easy run 30mins
Sun-Long run (I run these at a comfortable pace as opposed to easy)

[xcseventy]

wrencho said:

Smitters said:

One thing in guaranteed. You definitely don't worry about your mile splits...

Really good advice from everyone so thank you....

Not worrying about mile splits is the big draw really. I love "racing" and training to "race" but it would be nice to enjoy it for what it is once in a while.

Smitters speaks a lot of sense. Unless i've missed it (possible, don't post here often) i'm not sure how much off road running you've done, but i'd be tempted by some days in the hills on your own/with a few friends before a race.

About 95% of my running is off road and hilly and pace just becomes irrelevant. It's more about enjoyment, being in the wild and going as fast as you can down the hills, which is great fun.

I've got a race next weekend and annoyingly seem to have picked up a foot injury in the shape on a bruise/lump on the sole of my foot. Hurts to touch, but not too bad. I've tried to get an appointment with 5 different podiatrists next week, but they're all very busy. I'm hoping with a few days off running it's go away...

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

So my strength coach at Movement Blueprint said he thinks I should already begin to integrate some anaerobic stuff, but not maximal effort and not to extreme fatigue. As part of my "threshold build" plan after last week's 2x10mins off 90secs walk I did the same off a 60secs jog, paces were basically the same (6:15/mile, jog recovery at 8:30/mile) - working but definitely within control. Probably felt like 10k pace to be honest. After a couple of mins rest I just did a 30sec controlled effort at 4:50/mile.

No niggles.....for now

Maybe my problem was doing too many "max effort" sessions too soon. If I can incorporate the ranges of speeds I want and work pretty hard but not to max effort and build for the next 2-3 months and THEN start doing the max effort stuff I will be very happy. But time will tell.

Easy 4.5M tomorrow morning and a "knee bias" strength session in the afternoon.

[Inspire]

I thought I’d post the pros and cons of a long run I did yesterday, organised by Maverick, in the Surrey Hills. This might be useful for others thinking about doing this (or randomly searching for running stuff!).

It was the Maverick Original Surrey Hills

Pros:
-The views were stunning! Even though I live nearby, I was blown away by how lovely the views were. The route went from Polesden Lacey in Great Bookham to Leith Hill Tower and back so just over 25k
-As always with Maverick, the run was very well organised.

Cons:
-It was a bit pricey. I think my ticket was 35 quid, which is really quite a lot when you’re running on public footpaths and bridleways
-We didn’t quite make it to the Tower as the route turned around perhaps a 100 metres short! I really wanted to send a piccie to my wife to prove I’d got all the way to the Tower!
-The hills were brutal. It was toughest route I’ve done so far, with about 600 metres of elevation over the course, mainly concentrated at the beginning and end as we went up and over (twice!) the North Downs. Even the winner took just under 2 hours to complete the course and the last person was over 4 hours. I ended up in the middle at just over 3 hours, which I was pleased with.

Overall, I would definitely do it again. Indeed, I’m booked to do a half marathon with Maverick at Wendover in July.

Thanks

Rob