Aussie S4 sad story...
Discussion
hi all,
i have a sad story about my first car accident ever in my life (15 years of clean driving!) and just wanted to know if anyone else has had problems with their ABS... The other day i was driving to work in peak hour traffic, when my brakes cut out.... the brake peddle felt strong and ok, but the car didn't brake at all, just kept rolling and i ended up going into the car (a Merc) in front... fortunately i was only going about 35-40kms per hour as it was gridlock, but had i been on the freeway..... (i don't even want to think about that!)
the abs light was going crazy and flashing after the accident... the brakes themselves were fine after the accident, however, after discussion and inspection with the mechanics at the workshop, they are certain that the abs must have been faulty....apparently it is considered, not a regular problem, but something that is fairly common... they said they will know for sure after the car is repaired and all of the computers are reset and everything tested and diagnosed via all of their codes and stuff.....
anyone else have this abs/braking problem? my car is a 94 S4... they estimate that the car is going to be in the panel shop for about 4-6 weeks!
also, i was considering taking the abs out altogether, has anyone else done that?
i will post some photos of the damage asap....
rgds,
anthony
i have a sad story about my first car accident ever in my life (15 years of clean driving!) and just wanted to know if anyone else has had problems with their ABS... The other day i was driving to work in peak hour traffic, when my brakes cut out.... the brake peddle felt strong and ok, but the car didn't brake at all, just kept rolling and i ended up going into the car (a Merc) in front... fortunately i was only going about 35-40kms per hour as it was gridlock, but had i been on the freeway..... (i don't even want to think about that!)
the abs light was going crazy and flashing after the accident... the brakes themselves were fine after the accident, however, after discussion and inspection with the mechanics at the workshop, they are certain that the abs must have been faulty....apparently it is considered, not a regular problem, but something that is fairly common... they said they will know for sure after the car is repaired and all of the computers are reset and everything tested and diagnosed via all of their codes and stuff.....
anyone else have this abs/braking problem? my car is a 94 S4... they estimate that the car is going to be in the panel shop for about 4-6 weeks!
also, i was considering taking the abs out altogether, has anyone else done that?
i will post some photos of the damage asap....
rgds,
anthony
thanks for all the kind thoughts guys... guess i'll just have to wait for my car to get fixed...
jason: i'm in sydney (north shore)
lotus s4s: you haven't had the same problem have you?
guy johnson: thanks for the advice mate, i have always been a big believer of abs (though have never, touch wood, engaged an abs sytem ever with any cars i have owned (toyotas, mercs, bmws, lotus) or other cars i have driven in my 15 yrs of driving), i have always thought of abs as an absolute must on cars... i have taken 2 levels of the ian luff "dynamic safety/ advanced driving" courses and consider myself a very conservative/defensive driver (a gold license with no speeding tix, no accidents, nothing at all in all my 15 yrs of driving)... my cars are my babies...
apologies, i'm not mentioning all of this to brag or anything, i'm just considering if the risk of a problem with the abs (that i never considered existed) is worth the potential benefit weighing against those factors above...
I still find it hard to imagine ever driving a car without the safety net of abs, but this recent experience/accident abs problem has made me have a think about it... the mechanics and panel beaters that were looking at my car said that the last 2 cars (merc and a holden)that they had in for accidents prior to mine were due to abs failure/problems, ie. the abs cut the car's brakes as well, causing the cars to crash into the cars in front....
definately possible that they were just driving too fast, but the 3 cars (including mine) all had faulty abs systems (computers or sensors) after the crash when checked out, and brake cylinder's and cables were all fine, ie. the brakes themselves were working fine after the accidents, it was only the abs that was not working..... can we prove that they were faulty before the crash? of course not, however, the symptoms we all had(ie. the brakes didn't work when pressed, but then worked fine after we crashed into something!) was the same in all cases...
i guess what i have realised is that abs is still another system that is not perfect and can fail and if it does, it could result in your brakes not being activated... same effect as a brake cylinder bursting or a brake cable getting cut i guess...
conclusion: would i take out my abs right now? at the moment, i'm still a defensive driving control freak, so probably not... but i am still at least considering it as there was nothing quite as frightening as feeling my brakes fail!!! (even at only 40km/h!)
syneyse summed it up pretty well: drive 4 the conditions and you will never need abs...
i have always tried to drive cautiously and be aware so that i should hopefully continue to NEVER need my abs and keep preventing accidents wherever possible...
anyway, safe driving to all!
regards,
anthony
jason: i'm in sydney (north shore)
lotus s4s: you haven't had the same problem have you?
guy johnson: thanks for the advice mate, i have always been a big believer of abs (though have never, touch wood, engaged an abs sytem ever with any cars i have owned (toyotas, mercs, bmws, lotus) or other cars i have driven in my 15 yrs of driving), i have always thought of abs as an absolute must on cars... i have taken 2 levels of the ian luff "dynamic safety/ advanced driving" courses and consider myself a very conservative/defensive driver (a gold license with no speeding tix, no accidents, nothing at all in all my 15 yrs of driving)... my cars are my babies...
apologies, i'm not mentioning all of this to brag or anything, i'm just considering if the risk of a problem with the abs (that i never considered existed) is worth the potential benefit weighing against those factors above...
I still find it hard to imagine ever driving a car without the safety net of abs, but this recent experience/accident abs problem has made me have a think about it... the mechanics and panel beaters that were looking at my car said that the last 2 cars (merc and a holden)that they had in for accidents prior to mine were due to abs failure/problems, ie. the abs cut the car's brakes as well, causing the cars to crash into the cars in front....
definately possible that they were just driving too fast, but the 3 cars (including mine) all had faulty abs systems (computers or sensors) after the crash when checked out, and brake cylinder's and cables were all fine, ie. the brakes themselves were working fine after the accidents, it was only the abs that was not working..... can we prove that they were faulty before the crash? of course not, however, the symptoms we all had(ie. the brakes didn't work when pressed, but then worked fine after we crashed into something!) was the same in all cases...
i guess what i have realised is that abs is still another system that is not perfect and can fail and if it does, it could result in your brakes not being activated... same effect as a brake cylinder bursting or a brake cable getting cut i guess...
conclusion: would i take out my abs right now? at the moment, i'm still a defensive driving control freak, so probably not... but i am still at least considering it as there was nothing quite as frightening as feeling my brakes fail!!! (even at only 40km/h!)
syneyse summed it up pretty well: drive 4 the conditions and you will never need abs...
i have always tried to drive cautiously and be aware so that i should hopefully continue to NEVER need my abs and keep preventing accidents wherever possible...
anyway, safe driving to all!
regards,
anthony
quote:
Anthony,
How is the repair going. My shop is having trouble getting parts for my 1990. I have asked them if an updated front bumper etc could be obtained and if it will fit. A S4s would be good. Are you having any luck with delivery.
Jason
hi jason,
well, it's going along.... kinda slow though, spoke with the panel beater yesterday, he has estimated labour (only labour) at $6,000!! and is awaiting parts prices from rick damelian... they think they will have the assessor in tomorrow (thursday), get the ok, start stripping her down on friday and be ready to commence work on monday... though no word yet on the actual availability of the parts reqiured... what they have said so far:
- new front bumer
- front indicator lights
- pressure test all radiators (chargecooler, air con, radiator, oil coollers)
- possibly take off the whole front boot bit (basically the whole nose) due to some hairline cracks in the front boot that they noticed and are not sure about...
- possible more when they take the front bumper off and have a look...
there is still more to come as they haven't finished and produced a quote yet... that $6,000 for labour alone is only an estimate not the actual quote...
i ordered some window stickers from sj sportscars in the UK, u name it, they can get it! it is kind of expensive to send stuff from the UK, but like i said, if u want it, they have it!
so how's your car? what actually happened? what sorta damage are we talking here?
rgds,
ant
hi all,
just got the quote back and Jason, you were right on the money! they quoted at $15,000 for the parts and labour and up to $20,000 if the pressure tests on the radiators turns up some problems or the boot has a problem.... funny, we ran pool in the office and ppl guessed between $2,000-$7,000 with my girlfriend "out there" at $12,000 and none of us were even close...
parts apparently don't seem 2 b much of a problem, the longest wait is for an indicator light from melbourne (10 days) but this wont delay anything apparently... they still reckon 4-6 weeks or so, but have located and ordered the parts needed so far:
- front bumper (upper)
- front bumper (lower)
- 2x indicator lights
they showed me the hairline fractures in the boot and are exploring that this week... agree with them that they are minor, but still need to be assessed as the headlights are sitting a few millimetres off from the bonet....
i also forgot to ask them about the licence plate mount which went missing with the front licence plate though...
jason, any luck with parts? have they tried rick damelian in sydney? or perhaps SJ sportscars in the UK? i spoke with this mate who works in insurance and he said that there can be a lot of issues with changing to non-standard parts, even if only things like the side skirts and bumpers... apparently it is an issue to do with crumple zones, rgidity, etc and its relation to the changed nature of the car and hence their premium calculation and risk assessment... all sounded pretty technical, i guess basically, they r esaying that they consider it too significant a change to the car... dont know how true all this is though, it was just one mate's (in insurance though) opinion... is that what u have heard?
ant
ps. i'm getting MAJOR withdrawl from not driving the esprit!! i miss the car so much...
pps. apologies that i haven't had time yet 2 put some photos up yet... will try 2 do so asap!!
just got the quote back and Jason, you were right on the money! they quoted at $15,000 for the parts and labour and up to $20,000 if the pressure tests on the radiators turns up some problems or the boot has a problem.... funny, we ran pool in the office and ppl guessed between $2,000-$7,000 with my girlfriend "out there" at $12,000 and none of us were even close...
parts apparently don't seem 2 b much of a problem, the longest wait is for an indicator light from melbourne (10 days) but this wont delay anything apparently... they still reckon 4-6 weeks or so, but have located and ordered the parts needed so far:
- front bumper (upper)
- front bumper (lower)
- 2x indicator lights
they showed me the hairline fractures in the boot and are exploring that this week... agree with them that they are minor, but still need to be assessed as the headlights are sitting a few millimetres off from the bonet....
i also forgot to ask them about the licence plate mount which went missing with the front licence plate though...
jason, any luck with parts? have they tried rick damelian in sydney? or perhaps SJ sportscars in the UK? i spoke with this mate who works in insurance and he said that there can be a lot of issues with changing to non-standard parts, even if only things like the side skirts and bumpers... apparently it is an issue to do with crumple zones, rgidity, etc and its relation to the changed nature of the car and hence their premium calculation and risk assessment... all sounded pretty technical, i guess basically, they r esaying that they consider it too significant a change to the car... dont know how true all this is though, it was just one mate's (in insurance though) opinion... is that what u have heard?
ant
ps. i'm getting MAJOR withdrawl from not driving the esprit!! i miss the car so much...
pps. apologies that i haven't had time yet 2 put some photos up yet... will try 2 do so asap!!
hi jason,
yeah, even wen u dont drive it, u still have to pay insurance! i'm insured with shannons (the one with the gogomobile add).... AC&P who are doing my repairs reckon that they are on track for Oct 31st...they told me to call them once a week (each friday) and they update me, i also visit on saturday's occasionally just to have a look....
as for the cost, think i mentioned before, but if not...they quoted $15-20K depending on pressure tests....
hehe, go easy on your skin! doesn't sound too healthy doing that with leatherique!?!... i think the SE person that you mentioned is a guy named Reeves... really nice guy that I met a few weeks back.. he emailed me and we happened to bump into (not cars fortunately!!) each other in double bay (in Sydney) one lunch time on a sunday... great guy to chat with and has a great looking red esprit SE...
sorry for the confusion, the crack in the "boot" is actually the front "boot" with the spare tyre etc...the crack is tiny, but still has to be fully checked out...
anyway, without further ado, here are the photos (finally!!!)....
www.users.bigpond.com/anthony_lai/S4R.htm
overall, i guess it was a tiny accident really, and basically was just the bumper, however, this still translated to 6 weeks of no Esprit!! argh!
rgds,
anthony
yeah, even wen u dont drive it, u still have to pay insurance! i'm insured with shannons (the one with the gogomobile add).... AC&P who are doing my repairs reckon that they are on track for Oct 31st...they told me to call them once a week (each friday) and they update me, i also visit on saturday's occasionally just to have a look....
as for the cost, think i mentioned before, but if not...they quoted $15-20K depending on pressure tests....
hehe, go easy on your skin! doesn't sound too healthy doing that with leatherique!?!... i think the SE person that you mentioned is a guy named Reeves... really nice guy that I met a few weeks back.. he emailed me and we happened to bump into (not cars fortunately!!) each other in double bay (in Sydney) one lunch time on a sunday... great guy to chat with and has a great looking red esprit SE...
sorry for the confusion, the crack in the "boot" is actually the front "boot" with the spare tyre etc...the crack is tiny, but still has to be fully checked out...
anyway, without further ado, here are the photos (finally!!!)....
www.users.bigpond.com/anthony_lai/S4R.htm
overall, i guess it was a tiny accident really, and basically was just the bumper, however, this still translated to 6 weeks of no Esprit!! argh!
rgds,
anthony
wow! ok, now THAT is damage! (keen's project car) that would raise one to lotus god status!....i can't believe i thought having the front bumper replaced was a big deal, i dont even feel justified saying my car was damaged anymore, it was just a scratch by comparison....
oh yeah, if you look at a few other photos on my website, you will see that the fine young lady in the photo at the panel shop poking around the esprit is actually my girlfriend (yeah, believe it or not) and though she is an esprit fanatic also and her uncle is a legend mechanic, she doesn't do any panel work!
hehe...
the dim-witted looking geek with the cap in the photos at the panel shop and the "i stalk-women-and-hope-they-give-in-cos-they-won't-talk-to-me-otherwise" look on his face, is actually me... guess it proves, like bruce wayne says in the movie batman "it's the car, chicks dig the car right?"
anyway, we now are both waiting patiently till Oct 31st, when the car is estimated to be done by... here's hoping!
anthony
oh yeah, if you look at a few other photos on my website, you will see that the fine young lady in the photo at the panel shop poking around the esprit is actually my girlfriend (yeah, believe it or not) and though she is an esprit fanatic also and her uncle is a legend mechanic, she doesn't do any panel work!
hehe... the dim-witted looking geek with the cap in the photos at the panel shop and the "i stalk-women-and-hope-they-give-in-cos-they-won't-talk-to-me-otherwise" look on his face, is actually me... guess it proves, like bruce wayne says in the movie batman "it's the car, chicks dig the car right?"
anyway, we now are both waiting patiently till Oct 31st, when the car is estimated to be done by... here's hoping!
anthony
jason, calvin, dindo and the gang..
got my update on friday from the panel shop and they haven't realy done anything this week, the fiberglass work was meant to be done, but wasn't, and the radiators were meant to be sent, but werem't, i think it was because the assessor needed to come out and ok everyhting.... anyway, he did come out and take a whole stack of photos and ok it, so they will be commencing fiberglass work next week and sending the radiators for testng.... i guess this mean one more week's wait... the panel shop said they woudl have a better idea when it would b ready next friday, meaning it will probably be later a few weeks later than 31st Oct... oh well, wat can i do....
calvin, if u do jump on a plane and head down here, let us know as the aussies down here, we can definately show u that australia is one of the greatest places in the world to visit!! we're all a bit stunned here after bali, but we're not going to let that put our spirits down... i'm actually going to visit NY over new years with my girlfirned and a few friends... love NY! just like sydney, NY is one awesome city!
thanks for all the info on abs systems guys! yeah, the guys in the panel shop said the abs light is permanently on and they are sure that was wat caused the problem, but that won't be addressed till the end wen all the panel work is done, the computers are the last thing to be reset and checked before i get the car back... also, the lotus mechanics at rick damelian told me there is no log of when the abs was activated (like a black box) so there is ABSOLUTELY NO way of knowing for sure if that was wat caused the problem... also becasue the service records and maintenance are perfectly up to date, the records are there, the car was in mint condition and had been looked after so well (the best of everything, oil, tyres, etc) they think it was just one of those things that will be impossible to ever know...oh well, guess as long as the car is fixed, that is all that matters...
sigh...i'm getting serious esprit withdrawl!!!
anthony
ps. calvin, haven't had a chance to hook up with the lotus clubs here yet, work keeps me so busy and travelling a lot and i have only had the car for about 6 months...
got my update on friday from the panel shop and they haven't realy done anything this week, the fiberglass work was meant to be done, but wasn't, and the radiators were meant to be sent, but werem't, i think it was because the assessor needed to come out and ok everyhting.... anyway, he did come out and take a whole stack of photos and ok it, so they will be commencing fiberglass work next week and sending the radiators for testng.... i guess this mean one more week's wait... the panel shop said they woudl have a better idea when it would b ready next friday, meaning it will probably be later a few weeks later than 31st Oct... oh well, wat can i do....
calvin, if u do jump on a plane and head down here, let us know as the aussies down here, we can definately show u that australia is one of the greatest places in the world to visit!! we're all a bit stunned here after bali, but we're not going to let that put our spirits down... i'm actually going to visit NY over new years with my girlfirned and a few friends... love NY! just like sydney, NY is one awesome city!
thanks for all the info on abs systems guys! yeah, the guys in the panel shop said the abs light is permanently on and they are sure that was wat caused the problem, but that won't be addressed till the end wen all the panel work is done, the computers are the last thing to be reset and checked before i get the car back... also, the lotus mechanics at rick damelian told me there is no log of when the abs was activated (like a black box) so there is ABSOLUTELY NO way of knowing for sure if that was wat caused the problem... also becasue the service records and maintenance are perfectly up to date, the records are there, the car was in mint condition and had been looked after so well (the best of everything, oil, tyres, etc) they think it was just one of those things that will be impossible to ever know...oh well, guess as long as the car is fixed, that is all that matters...
sigh...i'm getting serious esprit withdrawl!!!
anthony
ps. calvin, haven't had a chance to hook up with the lotus clubs here yet, work keeps me so busy and travelling a lot and i have only had the car for about 6 months...
greetings all, update time!
just spoke with the panel shop (just couldn't wait till tomorrow!) and they have almost completed the fibreglass work, it will be completed tomorrow and saturday... painting is 2 b done next week and radiators sent away next week with a day at rick damelian's (lotus dealer) for computer checks, so all up, they reckon another week and a half all up, pick up could be as early as the 6th Nov (7 weeks + to fix a bumper?)... not bad i spose, about a week or 2 longer than expected, but not 2 bad....hopefully no complications with anything that will delay it any longer... can't wait!
yeah, the pricing on the repairs and parts is kinda high i thought, but the assessor was happy with it and has been signing off and taking his pictures every week, so i guess it is normal and ok... i pay the excess and that is it as far as i know....
yep jason and i r relatively new espirt owners, but like most, i have always had a thing 4 the esprit... calvin, thanks 4 the heads up on the NY esprit owners! will let u know closer 2 the day when i head over there, my girlfriend has our whole trip planned out, but i'm sure i can talk her into a bit of esprit action...can't wait 2 go 2 NY as well, my sister was living there with her husband for about 8 yrs and she loved it over there also... she also lived in chicago and we have some relatives in washington, LA, NY, so the US seems like kind of a 2nd home sometimes....
calvin, if u ever get down 2 sydney australia (where i live), we would be more than happy to show u around... funny u mention hawaii, that is one destination that every beach going aussie (probably 98% of the population) wants 2 or does go 2 some time in their lives... i went there a few years back and loved it! bali was kind of australia's little getaway-from-it-all island, we're still sorta recovering and holding tribues and ceremonies down here as it appears that about 95% of the victims were aussies (mostly footy players and their families) and it has really rocked us down here...anyway enough of that....
so the the news is "anna" (my esprit) is doing well and coming home soon.... i am going to try and head out this w/end and have a look and if i do, i'll try 2 get some more pics up...
rgds,
anthony
just spoke with the panel shop (just couldn't wait till tomorrow!) and they have almost completed the fibreglass work, it will be completed tomorrow and saturday... painting is 2 b done next week and radiators sent away next week with a day at rick damelian's (lotus dealer) for computer checks, so all up, they reckon another week and a half all up, pick up could be as early as the 6th Nov (7 weeks + to fix a bumper?)... not bad i spose, about a week or 2 longer than expected, but not 2 bad....hopefully no complications with anything that will delay it any longer... can't wait!
yeah, the pricing on the repairs and parts is kinda high i thought, but the assessor was happy with it and has been signing off and taking his pictures every week, so i guess it is normal and ok... i pay the excess and that is it as far as i know....
yep jason and i r relatively new espirt owners, but like most, i have always had a thing 4 the esprit... calvin, thanks 4 the heads up on the NY esprit owners! will let u know closer 2 the day when i head over there, my girlfriend has our whole trip planned out, but i'm sure i can talk her into a bit of esprit action...can't wait 2 go 2 NY as well, my sister was living there with her husband for about 8 yrs and she loved it over there also... she also lived in chicago and we have some relatives in washington, LA, NY, so the US seems like kind of a 2nd home sometimes....
calvin, if u ever get down 2 sydney australia (where i live), we would be more than happy to show u around... funny u mention hawaii, that is one destination that every beach going aussie (probably 98% of the population) wants 2 or does go 2 some time in their lives... i went there a few years back and loved it! bali was kind of australia's little getaway-from-it-all island, we're still sorta recovering and holding tribues and ceremonies down here as it appears that about 95% of the victims were aussies (mostly footy players and their families) and it has really rocked us down here...anyway enough of that....
so the the news is "anna" (my esprit) is doing well and coming home soon.... i am going to try and head out this w/end and have a look and if i do, i'll try 2 get some more pics up...
rgds,
anthony
wow, didn't realise there was such a following over there... i guess there probably is down under, but i haven't had the chance to follow up yet cos so busy with work and stuff...
yeah, as u mention, i guess the lifestyle and cultures of the US and AUS are pretty similar, cars, surf, girls, pubs, football, basketball, etc. etc. all the fun things in life!! work hard, play hard, hehe... the annual motor show in sydney was just last week, so upset, i went and there was no lotus didn't have a stand!!!!! couldn't believe it!!! i have serious withdrawl! i thought it was great not seeing another esprit on the road and being so unique, now i'm suffering! (no kidding, u c an esprit only once every few months, and i drive everyday to and from work! i c 911s everyday, 355s/360s/NSXs about once a week, but esprits, hardley ever! they r that rare here...)
in terms of speeds here, 80% of roads are limited to 60kmh... our interstate freeways only go up to 110khm in some places, that is pretty much it.. not much speed happenin here (except on tracks), we mostly just cruise, the roads here are pretty badly maintained here, potholes everywhere... not 2 mention radar traps (speed radar guns) everywhere and radar detectors are illegal!
update: the fibreglass work is taking heaps longer than expected, the 1.5 weeks is actually gonna b about 3-4 weeks more! oh well, guess it is good as they keep saying they want their work to be perfect...
ant
yeah, as u mention, i guess the lifestyle and cultures of the US and AUS are pretty similar, cars, surf, girls, pubs, football, basketball, etc. etc. all the fun things in life!! work hard, play hard, hehe... the annual motor show in sydney was just last week, so upset, i went and there was no lotus didn't have a stand!!!!! couldn't believe it!!! i have serious withdrawl! i thought it was great not seeing another esprit on the road and being so unique, now i'm suffering! (no kidding, u c an esprit only once every few months, and i drive everyday to and from work! i c 911s everyday, 355s/360s/NSXs about once a week, but esprits, hardley ever! they r that rare here...)
in terms of speeds here, 80% of roads are limited to 60kmh... our interstate freeways only go up to 110khm in some places, that is pretty much it.. not much speed happenin here (except on tracks), we mostly just cruise, the roads here are pretty badly maintained here, potholes everywhere... not 2 mention radar traps (speed radar guns) everywhere and radar detectors are illegal!
update: the fibreglass work is taking heaps longer than expected, the 1.5 weeks is actually gonna b about 3-4 weeks more! oh well, guess it is good as they keep saying they want their work to be perfect...
ant
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