I think I'm done with road...

[AndyF2020]

trails said:

I wonder how many would survive the 15min bike ride prior to the test

I see a similar issue with motorway driving and the endless threads on people hogging the middle lane - include motorway driving in the test too.

If you ever look over at someone doing 60mph in the middle lane with miles of empty inside lane in front of them they often look oblivious or unaware they should be anywhere else (they don't look like they're doing it deliberately to wind up PH)

[trails]

AndyF2020 said:

trails said:

I wonder how many would survive the 15min bike ride prior to the test

I see a similar issue with motorway driving and the endless threads on people hogging the middle lane - include motorway driving in the test too.

If you ever look over at someone doing 60mph in the middle lane with miles of empty inside lane in front of them they often look oblivious or unaware they should be anywhere else (they don't look like they're doing it deliberately to wind up PH)

Common sense has no place on this thread

[bmwmike]

Points should be a VED multiplier IMO.

3 points = 30% more road tax.

Points for opsnap reports are probably rare though, unfortunately, but may make drivers think twice.

[Daveyraveygravey]

lrdisco said:

... whereas a MTB rider is going 30MPH down hill with limited control of their bicycle.

What, all the time, every time?

lrdisco said:

Pumped up hooligans.

What, all of them?

[Daveyraveygravey]

lrdisco said:

You see self awareness is missing there. Your hobby not mine causes delays to me and many others. My hobbies cause no upheaval or delay to anyone.
You cast a wide net calling people fat lazy wkers & tossers. Why are you so judgmental? Don’t judge others lest they judge you.
This says more about you than anyone else.
You seem angry. You possibly need to talk to a professional about your anger issues.
Why can you not accept others views are as valid as yours? Your response backs up my initial point.

Hobby? Is it my hobby when I commute to work on my bike? And it causes nobody any delays. That's just a cliche trotted out by idiots like you.
Judge me all you like, I'm not the sad little prick getting upset with drivers getting an earful. Just remind yourself which group of road users causes almost all the carnage and injury on the road.
I am angry. Angry at having to defend a means of travel from stupid bds like yourself. Your views aren't valid they are just exaggerated stereotypes.
When did you last ride a bike on the roads? If you did, you might have some idea of this subject. Not your lazy blinkered views.

[Tim Cognito]

I don't know why anyone bothers engaging with him on this topic, it's like arguing about Brexit or religion.

[Downward]

Correvor said:

Time of day is a huge factor.

I tend to go out at weekends around 08:30 and largely on my tod. Occasionally, I'll head out after lunch at a weekend or mid-week during the working day and always find it a rude awakening.

I try to plan routes in advance, I seek out quiet roads (no A or B roads) but wide enough for at least a car and bike. Single track roads near me are worse than A roads, covered in mud / crap and hard to get visibility too far ahead.

I think 99% of car drivers are respectful of cyclists, and 99% of cyclists are respectful to car drivers. The problem is the small minority and if one of those people are in a metal box travelling at 60mph, that's an issue. Drivers I struggle with the most though are the elderly members of the population. I went past a church at 10am yesterday, that was fun.

Saturday morning is good.
Saturday evening just 8pm ish is also good in the countryside.

But as quiet as it is it just takes someone not to pay attention and your squashed

[Downward]

Actually someone posted a video yesterday on the local FB group.
She was riding a horse a bus was coming the other way. A van overtook her very very close at maybe 50mph on a 30 road.

[irc]

AndyF2020 said:

I see a similar issue with motorway driving and the endless threads on people hogging the middle lane - include motorway driving in the test too.

If you ever look over at someone doing 60mph in the middle lane with miles of empty inside lane in front of them they often look oblivious or unaware they should be anywhere else (they don't look like they're doing it deliberately to wind up PH)

My pet hate is driving along at 70. Nearside lane. Empty motorway. Car enter from slip road up ahead and goes straight to the middle lane and cruises at 60. Why? Going from lane 1 to 3 to pass then back to 1 isn't hard but why always the middle. Sometimes there is method in the madness.

A friend who was a traffic cop in Glasgow on nightshift stopped a car on the M8 eastbound. There was another reason but among the questions he asked the driver was "why are you driving in the middle lane when the inside is clear?"

The answer was "because this lane goes to Edinburgh". Which was correct. Due to the various merges and offside slip roads the middle lane is the only lane you can go from the west, around Ibrox, right through Glasgow City centre on east towards Edinburgh without a lane change. Or you could then. The upgrades around Bailliestion may have changed it there.

[Julian Scott]

Downward said:

Correvor said:

Time of day is a huge factor.

I tend to go out at weekends around 08:30 and largely on my tod. Occasionally, I'll head out after lunch at a weekend or mid-week during the working day and always find it a rude awakening.

I try to plan routes in advance, I seek out quiet roads (no A or B roads) but wide enough for at least a car and bike. Single track roads near me are worse than A roads, covered in mud / crap and hard to get visibility too far ahead.

I think 99% of car drivers are respectful of cyclists, and 99% of cyclists are respectful to car drivers. The problem is the small minority and if one of those people are in a metal box travelling at 60mph, that's an issue. Drivers I struggle with the most though are the elderly members of the population. I went past a church at 10am yesterday, that was fun.

Saturday morning is good.
Saturday evening just 8pm ish is also good in the countryside.

But as quiet as it is it just takes someone not to pay attention and your squashed

I'll see your Saturday and raise you Sunday morning. Don't even have to get out that early, our group rides start around 9am and see less cars in 2-4 hours than other cyclists.

[trails]

Downward said:

Actually someone posted a video yesterday on the local FB group.
She was riding a horse a bus was coming the other way. A van overtook her very very close at maybe 50mph on a 30 road.

Hopefully it's enough for Old Bill to take some sort of action.

[emicen]

Consider yourselves lucky to have opsnap available. Police Scotland, sorry, “Poileas Alba” only have the money from pointless Gaelic etc, no monies left over to join their English counterparts using snap.

Making it more of a ballache to report incidents will definitely act as a deterrent to drivers.

[g3org3y]

Sat or Sunday morning first thing (on the bike by 7am for example) typically for me.

Occasionally I ride back from work on a Saturday afternoon, fortunately the route I take is not especially busy.

[Random_Person]

Tim Cognito said:

I got into road cycling around 12 years ago and it was great, with all the physical and mental benefits we all know.

I got into a bit of a hole chasing average speed, spanking myself every ride and judging how good a ride was by what the average was. Obviously it is an ever increasing target and I was getting a bit bored with it.

A few years ago my friend introduced me to gravel and I didn't look back, much more engaging and challenging riding, more sociable, still physically very hard, closer to nature and most importantly away from traffic.

When I did go back on the road, the attitude to cyclists and driving standards was getting to me, it seemed like every ride you'd have a close call or punishment pass.

Enjoying the plus point of not almost being killed every ride, my journey off road continued and I got a hard tail mtb and later a full suss and so the road bike barely gets used now.

Today we had some dry weather and I had 90 minutes to spare so I thought I'd do the local fast roadie loop and give it a dig for old times sake.

Literally 2 minutes out the door, some almost takes me out on a roundabout, I mean inches away, probably the closest call I've had.

There's just too many incapable, distracted or deliberately aggressive drivers to potentially ruin a ride now.

It's got to the point where I honestly wouldn't recommend anyone I care about to start road cycling, and if that's my view to protect others, why aren't I protecting myself...

So yeah, I think my roadie days are over, maybe group rides only?

I haven't read any replies yet but do have a lot to say on the matter. I have road cycled since 2012, and in that time have commuted and done club runs, averaging around 5000 miles a year every year since. I am also a motorcyclist and car driver, most of my former career spent climbing the police driving hierarchy up to and including instructor level.

The attitudes and degeneration of road conditions both physically and mentally are real, and I have noticed it acutely. The last year has been significantly bad, and this year even worse. I ride swiftly, confidently, not getting in the way of anybody and making my intentions clear by positioning, however I am having regular "incidents" on rides now which although I do anticipate and deal with, are becoming very frequent. I am having to constantly correct drivers mistakes by 1) seeing them coming 2) adjusting my speed and course to cater for their mistake and 3) then receiving the barrage of abuse that follows - because as the cyclist, it must always be my fault. The most common themes are vehicles pulling out in front of me from T junctions, vehicles pulling out on roundabouts, and when they overtake you and then instantly turn across you into a drive / junction / side road. Most of these are accidental however some are on purpose. I have countless examples, however two recent ones are when a thug in a VW Golf had the hump with the fact I was riding at a decent pace meaning he had to wait for me to cross a mini roundabout - he then went round the roundabout, drew alongside and just in front of me and then braked w- effectively TPAC ing me in his car whilst I was on my bike. He went mental and threatened me with all manner of things, extremely violent and so out of control I was quite wary of reacting. Had I have escalated the situation I suspect he would have tried to kill me, so I ended up not reacting and getting the police involved latterly, his word against mine, nothing materialised which I knew to be the case. Last week whilst cycling down Albert Embankment jn Vauxhall, a black taxi pulled alongside me, looked at me and started smiling/laughing, drew a car length ahead of me then indicated and turned left across my path into the Texaco garage, whilst simultaneously giving verbal and physical insult gestures. These are just two examples of the level of abuse and resistance that are now apparent on the roads.

The roads are generally unpoliced, which is a good half of the problem, and that is a problem that is never being solved, ever. Dedicated roads police are few and far between and often engaged on jobs which are protracted. The chances of seeing one or having an interaction with one is almost non existent. Back around 8 years ago before I left, we would parade around 8 - 10 officers for a quarter of London (around 4 cars and 2 bikes). The amount of time actually spent enforcing around kitting up, responding to calls, refreshments, and other administrative tasks was minimal. When you consider the hundreds of thousands of vehicles travelling through counties across the UK and the non existent ratio of actual enforcement by officers, the maths tells you that there is no impact in real terms on road safety, education or anything to change attitudes.

Roads are now police by camera systems, and the public know this. This is why the cases of cloned plates have gone up by something like 800%, probably more. You only actually become aware of it when you receive a penalty and have to deal with it, there are many more that go undetected.

Has it stopped me? No not yet. Do I think about it and consider if I should call it a day? Yes every day. Quit while you are ahead springs to mind. Part of me doesn't want to allow defeat, and I actively protest and defend my rights as a cyclist. However, I do feel it may only be a matter of time before something happens, and by then it is too late. Zwift, spin classes and off road biking all offer alternatives - none of which appeal which is why I continue to road ride. But in 2012 - we had just had the Olympics, everyone was excited and wanting to ride, clubs were busy with members and enthusiasm, drivers didn't have the last decade of media fuelled anger towards cyclists based on the never ending attempt to reduce vehicles from city centres and increased green space e.t.c. All these things have now changed, the Olympics was last decade and forgotten about, more people are tied up with money issues / job issues and therefore don't ride anymore, the public are increasingly frustrated with the ever increasing costs and population in UK roads meaning cyclists are just fuelling the fire for their illogical hatred of anything on two wheels, and of course now with the scourge of electric scooters / bikes / hoverboards we have been lumped into the same pot of lawless uninsured and unworthy tarmac thieves that drivers feel should not be allowed to share the road space.

Its not just on roads either - I used to commute by train to London with a bike and by god, what a painful experience. All dedicated bike spaces filled with luggage, prams, cases, foreign objects - no assistance / care in the world by any member of train crew, and constant disdain at you for daring to get on a train wearing lycra and with a thin pushbike that in reality causes no harm to anyone.

Unfortunately the ignorance, lack of standards and lowering of attitudes spoken about are all indicative of a much wider problem in society - it is just that cycling bears the brunt as generally you are much more vulnerable on a bike. Confrontation is great when the tables are equal, however if you get on the wrong side of someone with a lack of self control, it is very easy for them in a vehicle to cause serious injury to you on a bike - and all you have to do is look at how people conduct themselves in general to ask the question - do you trust the person that you are challenging not to be one of those people? It is not always easy to allow yourself a "fighting arc" either - clipped in / having to clip in takes time if you need to suddenly make ground, and if you are in a non urban place with a lack of alleyways or optionsd away from the road it also presents real vulnerablity.

[duff]

I’ve also been road riding since 2011 and MTB long before that. I used to do quite a lot back then but been off the bike for the last few years (1k miles in 3 years) due to other commitments.

Did a steady 30 miles Saturday without issue. I went out today and had a few uncomfortable moments. Within 10 mins I had a close call with a truck trying to pass me approaching a bend, just as another truck came the other way. Luckily he scrubbed enough speed off the stop behind me but it was quite scary hearing this thing bearing down on you.

5 mins later a car accelerated harshly past me right into the path of an oncoming car, which braked hard and sounded the horn. It wasn’t close to me but really forced the oncoming car to stop, just a totally unnecessary manoeuvre.

Towards the end of the ride, had a couple of close passes on the local A road which I was forced to use due to the lane I would normally use being closed.

Standards of driving or people’s awareness/tolerance of cyclists seems to be worse than I remember from riding previously but perhaps today was just a bad day.

[Evanivitch]

lrdisco said:

You see self awareness is missing there. Your hobby not mine causes delays to me and many others. My hobbies cause no upheaval or delay to anyone.

If your hobby involves a car in any way, then yeah, the number one cause of traffic delays is simply cars

[Random_Person]

Evanivitch said:

If your hobby involves a car in any way, then yeah, the number one cause of traffic delays is simply cars

Its funny that I have been commuting to work since 2012 on a road bike, for the benefit of both the planet, my health and the future of my children. Yet this can be seen as a "hobby". I used to do that "hobby" to get to work and sometimes be the one last person to assist, and be a lifeline to families involved in all manner of emergencies, some of them road collisions. I have been first on scene at fatal road collisions, or serious collisions, and then gone to collect, chaperone and bear witness to family members saying goodbye to love ones as they die in front of them in resuscitation wards.

Think of that irdsco, or whatever your name is, next time you label all cyclists as hobbyists. Maybe we are all just trying to get somewhere, to do our job, and save money, or the planet in the process.

[heebeegeetee]

Evanivitch said:

lrdisco said:

You see self awareness is missing there. Your hobby not mine causes delays to me and many others. My hobbies cause no upheaval or delay to anyone.

If your hobby involves a car in any way, then yeah, the number one cause of traffic delays is simply cars

Yep. See all that enormous traffic congestion caused daily as over 30 million motor vehicles take to the road daily and cause chaos? That's all done by somebody else that is, not me.

Edited by heebeegeetee on Wednesday 3rd April 13:36

[Daveyraveygravey]

Random_Person said:

I haven't read any replies yet but do have a lot to say on the matter. I have road cycled since 2012, and in that time have commuted and done club runs, averaging around 5000 miles a year every year since. I am also a motorcyclist and car driver, most of my former career spent climbing the police driving hierarchy up to and including instructor level.

The attitudes and degeneration of road conditions both physically and mentally are real, and I have noticed it acutely. The last year has been significantly bad, and this year even worse. I ride swiftly, confidently, not getting in the way of anybody and making my intentions clear by positioning, however I am having regular "incidents" on rides now which although I do anticipate and deal with, are becoming very frequent. I am having to constantly correct drivers mistakes by 1) seeing them coming 2) adjusting my speed and course to cater for their mistake and 3) then receiving the barrage of abuse that follows - because as the cyclist, it must always be my fault. The most common themes are vehicles pulling out in front of me from T junctions, vehicles pulling out on roundabouts, and when they overtake you and then instantly turn across you into a drive / junction / side road. Most of these are accidental however some are on purpose. I have countless examples, however two recent ones are when a thug in a VW Golf had the hump with the fact I was riding at a decent pace meaning he had to wait for me to cross a mini roundabout - he then went round the roundabout, drew alongside and just in front of me and then braked w- effectively TPAC ing me in his car whilst I was on my bike. He went mental and threatened me with all manner of things, extremely violent and so out of control I was quite wary of reacting. Had I have escalated the situation I suspect he would have tried to kill me, so I ended up not reacting and getting the police involved latterly, his word against mine, nothing materialised which I knew to be the case. Last week whilst cycling down Albert Embankment jn Vauxhall, a black taxi pulled alongside me, looked at me and started smiling/laughing, drew a car length ahead of me then indicated and turned left across my path into the Texaco garage, whilst simultaneously giving verbal and physical insult gestures. These are just two examples of the level of abuse and resistance that are now apparent on the roads.

The roads are generally unpoliced, which is a good half of the problem, and that is a problem that is never being solved, ever. Dedicated roads police are few and far between and often engaged on jobs which are protracted. The chances of seeing one or having an interaction with one is almost non existent. Back around 8 years ago before I left, we would parade around 8 - 10 officers for a quarter of London (around 4 cars and 2 bikes). The amount of time actually spent enforcing around kitting up, responding to calls, refreshments, and other administrative tasks was minimal. When you consider the hundreds of thousands of vehicles travelling through counties across the UK and the non existent ratio of actual enforcement by officers, the maths tells you that there is no impact in real terms on road safety, education or anything to change attitudes.

Roads are now police by camera systems, and the public know this. This is why the cases of cloned plates have gone up by something like 800%, probably more. You only actually become aware of it when you receive a penalty and have to deal with it, there are many more that go undetected.

Has it stopped me? No not yet. Do I think about it and consider if I should call it a day? Yes every day. Quit while you are ahead springs to mind. Part of me doesn't want to allow defeat, and I actively protest and defend my rights as a cyclist. However, I do feel it may only be a matter of time before something happens, and by then it is too late. Zwift, spin classes and off road biking all offer alternatives - none of which appeal which is why I continue to road ride. But in 2012 - we had just had the Olympics, everyone was excited and wanting to ride, clubs were busy with members and enthusiasm, drivers didn't have the last decade of media fuelled anger towards cyclists based on the never ending attempt to reduce vehicles from city centres and increased green space e.t.c. All these things have now changed, the Olympics was last decade and forgotten about, more people are tied up with money issues / job issues and therefore don't ride anymore, the public are increasingly frustrated with the ever increasing costs and population in UK roads meaning cyclists are just fuelling the fire for their illogical hatred of anything on two wheels, and of course now with the scourge of electric scooters / bikes / hoverboards we have been lumped into the same pot of lawless uninsured and unworthy tarmac thieves that drivers feel should not be allowed to share the road space.

Its not just on roads either - I used to commute by train to London with a bike and by god, what a painful experience. All dedicated bike spaces filled with luggage, prams, cases, foreign objects - no assistance / care in the world by any member of train crew, and constant disdain at you for daring to get on a train wearing lycra and with a thin pushbike that in reality causes no harm to anyone.

Unfortunately the ignorance, lack of standards and lowering of attitudes spoken about are all indicative of a much wider problem in society - it is just that cycling bears the brunt as generally you are much more vulnerable on a bike. Confrontation is great when the tables are equal, however if you get on the wrong side of someone with a lack of self control, it is very easy for them in a vehicle to cause serious injury to you on a bike - and all you have to do is look at how people conduct themselves in general to ask the question - do you trust the person that you are challenging not to be one of those people? It is not always easy to allow yourself a "fighting arc" either - clipped in / having to clip in takes time if you need to suddenly make ground, and if you are in a non urban place with a lack of alleyways or optionsd away from the road it also presents real vulnerablity.

Agree with everything you said, and I suspect anybody that has ridden a bike on UK roads for more than 5 minutes would know exactly what you are talking about it. Drivers think we make this stuff up, or exaggerate it.
I still ride on the road, but react less explosively to idiots than I used to, and am very aware of how vulnerable I am.
I always challenge people like that idiot. If you say nothing, they just carry on spouting the bullst. I know I am unlikely to change their mind, but they might at least think about the other side of the coin.

[Bombend]

Just seeing what my post ratio/month is.