I think I'm done with road...

[Evanivitch]

GuigiaroBertone said:

What's more tedious about the UK vs. Dropzones abroad?

Also I don't think the risk is substantially greater than road cycling, even allowing for the much lower number of participants

... the weather?

[GuigiaroBertone]

Evanivitch said:

GuigiaroBertone said:

What's more tedious about the UK vs. Dropzones abroad?

Also I don't think the risk is substantially greater than road cycling, even allowing for the much lower number of participants

... the weather?

Going off topic a bit, but UK weather is actually pretty conducive to skydiving. There are more jumpable days here than you'd probably think. I've been in California / Arizona where it's often just too hot to be comfortable jumping all day or there are dust devils that can really endanger your landings. I've also lost days in Spain and Portugal due to wind being above my limits.

Sure the scenery can be pretty in some locations, but on most jumps you're not really focusing on the background view. Aside from your altitude your other main focus is your position relative to your buddies and the moves / discipline that your learning.

Anyway, I digress. I've always been into all forms of cycling but other road users really ruined it for me. It got to the point where I was getting wound up on every ride- especially when riding through the suburbs on my way out and back. Now I just stick to offroad. I feel far safer in freefall with a main and reserve parachute, plus a device that deploys my reserve automatically if I am unable to for any reason, than perched atop a road bike on a busy section of road with countless drivers paying zero attention to anything outside their 2 tonne 50mph cocoon.

Edited by GuigiaroBertone on Thursday 4th April 19:42

[GuigiaroBertone]

Random_Person said:

Tim Cognito said:

I got into road cycling around 12 years ago and it was great, with all the physical and mental benefits we all know.

I got into a bit of a hole chasing average speed, spanking myself every ride and judging how good a ride was by what the average was. Obviously it is an ever increasing target and I was getting a bit bored with it.

A few years ago my friend introduced me to gravel and I didn't look back, much more engaging and challenging riding, more sociable, still physically very hard, closer to nature and most importantly away from traffic.

When I did go back on the road, the attitude to cyclists and driving standards was getting to me, it seemed like every ride you'd have a close call or punishment pass.

Enjoying the plus point of not almost being killed every ride, my journey off road continued and I got a hard tail mtb and later a full suss and so the road bike barely gets used now.

Today we had some dry weather and I had 90 minutes to spare so I thought I'd do the local fast roadie loop and give it a dig for old times sake.

Literally 2 minutes out the door, some almost takes me out on a roundabout, I mean inches away, probably the closest call I've had.

There's just too many incapable, distracted or deliberately aggressive drivers to potentially ruin a ride now.

It's got to the point where I honestly wouldn't recommend anyone I care about to start road cycling, and if that's my view to protect others, why aren't I protecting myself...

So yeah, I think my roadie days are over, maybe group rides only?

I haven't read any replies yet but do have a lot to say on the matter. I have road cycled since 2012, and in that time have commuted and done club runs, averaging around 5000 miles a year every year since. I am also a motorcyclist and car driver, most of my former career spent climbing the police driving hierarchy up to and including instructor level.

The attitudes and degeneration of road conditions both physically and mentally are real, and I have noticed it acutely. The last year has been significantly bad, and this year even worse. I ride swiftly, confidently, not getting in the way of anybody and making my intentions clear by positioning, however I am having regular "incidents" on rides now which although I do anticipate and deal with, are becoming very frequent. I am having to constantly correct drivers mistakes by 1) seeing them coming 2) adjusting my speed and course to cater for their mistake and 3) then receiving the barrage of abuse that follows - because as the cyclist, it must always be my fault. The most common themes are vehicles pulling out in front of me from T junctions, vehicles pulling out on roundabouts, and when they overtake you and then instantly turn across you into a drive / junction / side road. Most of these are accidental however some are on purpose. I have countless examples, however two recent ones are when a thug in a VW Golf had the hump with the fact I was riding at a decent pace meaning he had to wait for me to cross a mini roundabout - he then went round the roundabout, drew alongside and just in front of me and then braked w- effectively TPAC ing me in his car whilst I was on my bike. He went mental and threatened me with all manner of things, extremely violent and so out of control I was quite wary of reacting. Had I have escalated the situation I suspect he would have tried to kill me, so I ended up not reacting and getting the police involved latterly, his word against mine, nothing materialised which I knew to be the case. Last week whilst cycling down Albert Embankment jn Vauxhall, a black taxi pulled alongside me, looked at me and started smiling/laughing, drew a car length ahead of me then indicated and turned left across my path into the Texaco garage, whilst simultaneously giving verbal and physical insult gestures. These are just two examples of the level of abuse and resistance that are now apparent on the roads.

The roads are generally unpoliced, which is a good half of the problem, and that is a problem that is never being solved, ever. Dedicated roads police are few and far between and often engaged on jobs which are protracted. The chances of seeing one or having an interaction with one is almost non existent. Back around 8 years ago before I left, we would parade around 8 - 10 officers for a quarter of London (around 4 cars and 2 bikes). The amount of time actually spent enforcing around kitting up, responding to calls, refreshments, and other administrative tasks was minimal. When you consider the hundreds of thousands of vehicles travelling through counties across the UK and the non existent ratio of actual enforcement by officers, the maths tells you that there is no impact in real terms on road safety, education or anything to change attitudes.

Roads are now police by camera systems, and the public know this. This is why the cases of cloned plates have gone up by something like 800%, probably more. You only actually become aware of it when you receive a penalty and have to deal with it, there are many more that go undetected.

Has it stopped me? No not yet. Do I think about it and consider if I should call it a day? Yes every day. Quit while you are ahead springs to mind. Part of me doesn't want to allow defeat, and I actively protest and defend my rights as a cyclist. However, I do feel it may only be a matter of time before something happens, and by then it is too late. Zwift, spin classes and off road biking all offer alternatives - none of which appeal which is why I continue to road ride. But in 2012 - we had just had the Olympics, everyone was excited and wanting to ride, clubs were busy with members and enthusiasm, drivers didn't have the last decade of media fuelled anger towards cyclists based on the never ending attempt to reduce vehicles from city centres and increased green space e.t.c. All these things have now changed, the Olympics was last decade and forgotten about, more people are tied up with money issues / job issues and therefore don't ride anymore, the public are increasingly frustrated with the ever increasing costs and population in UK roads meaning cyclists are just fuelling the fire for their illogical hatred of anything on two wheels, and of course now with the scourge of electric scooters / bikes / hoverboards we have been lumped into the same pot of lawless uninsured and unworthy tarmac thieves that drivers feel should not be allowed to share the road space.

Its not just on roads either - I used to commute by train to London with a bike and by god, what a painful experience. All dedicated bike spaces filled with luggage, prams, cases, foreign objects - no assistance / care in the world by any member of train crew, and constant disdain at you for daring to get on a train wearing lycra and with a thin pushbike that in reality causes no harm to anyone.

Unfortunately the ignorance, lack of standards and lowering of attitudes spoken about are all indicative of a much wider problem in society - it is just that cycling bears the brunt as generally you are much more vulnerable on a bike. Confrontation is great when the tables are equal, however if you get on the wrong side of someone with a lack of self control, it is very easy for them in a vehicle to cause serious injury to you on a bike - and all you have to do is look at how people conduct themselves in general to ask the question - do you trust the person that you are challenging not to be one of those people? It is not always easy to allow yourself a "fighting arc" either - clipped in / having to clip in takes time if you need to suddenly make ground, and if you are in a non urban place with a lack of alleyways or optionsd away from the road it also presents real vulnerablity.

So well put & I fully agree with every single thing you said. If I ever decide to be a roadie again, I'll at least wait until there's a 360degree camera available that can record for more than a couple of hours.

[ukbabz]

GuigiaroBertone said:

Going off topic a bit, but UK weather is actually pretty conducive to skydiving. There are more jumpable days here than you'd probably think. I've been in California / Arizona where it's often just too hot to be comfortable jumping all day or there are dust devils that can really endanger your landings. I've also lost days in Spain and Portugal due to wind being above my limits.

Sure the scenery can be pretty in some locations, but on most jumps you're not really focusing on the background view. Aside from your altitude your other main focus is your position relative to your buddies and the moves / discipline that your learning.

Anyway, I digress. I've always been into all forms of cycling but other road users really ruined it for me. It got to the point where I was getting wound up on every ride- especially when riding through the suburbs on my way out and back. Now I just stick to offroad. I feel far safer in freefall with a main and reserve parachute, plus a device that deploys my reserve automatically if I am unable to for any reason, than perched atop a road bike on a busy section of road with countless drivers paying zero attention to anything outside their 2 tonne 50mph cocoon.

Edited by GuigiaroBertone on Thursday 4th April 19:42

The weather and limited capacity is one big one. You may claim number of jump able days but I was fed up of spending a weekend at a dz for a handful of jumps with long turnaround times. There's a reason folks train in Spain / Portugal etc. I think my record jumps in the UK was around 6 in a long day. Whereas I'd nailed 13 by lunch in Spain.


They say cycling is a time killer, but I spent so much more time at the DZ / getting there!

I'd also say it may feel safer but out of the hundreds of folk I know who ride 0 have died, or had life changing injuries. That's not the same with skydiving.

The perception is that the road is dangerous and to an extent it is. I rode across Britain last year and the worst driving was near cities (Bristol, Manchester, Keighley, Edinburgh) and rural roads were a lot better.

Cities are too crowded, with too many distractions and piss poor infrastructure for all road users. I don't like riding in them and much prefer being out of town (easier when living in South Oxfordshire than Middle of london)

[carlo996]

jasonrobertson86 said:

Also sick of it. Went out a few times to relax and found myself more stressed

So stop moaning and stay indoors!

Seriously, if you lack the general ability to cycle on the roads, then there are loads of options. The roads are not safe, they never have been, it's hardly massive news.

[heebeegeetee]

carlo996 said:

The roads are not safe, they never have been,

In which case, surely we can understand why authorities want to clamp right down and make roads much safer?

I've driven in Europe on and off for over 40 years and I consider there has been a great transformation there, I believe I have seen this transformation with my own eyes, I have seen that it can be done.

I possibly don't agree with you re the degree to which UK roads are not safe, however I do think the problem is more down to antisocial drivers, and I do believe we have far too many of these for whatever reason.

As a motorist I am more than happy to comply with ever more restrictions in order to make road use available for all.

I have always, always said that the biggest threat to my freedom to motor is my fellow motorist.

[GuigiaroBertone]

carlo996 said:

jasonrobertson86 said:

Also sick of it. Went out a few times to relax and found myself more stressed

So stop moaning and stay indoors!

Seriously, if you lack the general ability to cycle on the roads, then there are loads of options. The roads are not safe, they never have been, it's hardly massive news.

Idiotic comment.

I've been cycling on the roads for well over 30 years and the number of incidents I had with motorists increased massively in recent years.

Driving standards and general attitude to cyclists is worse than ever. Too many people on their phones/ not paying attention or viewing cyclists as an inconvenience rather than another human.

[carlo996]

GuigiaroBertone said:

Idiotic comment.

I've been cycling on the roads for well over 30 years and the number of incidents I had with motorists increased massively in recent years.

Driving standards and general attitude to cyclists is worse than ever. Too many people on their phones/ not paying attention or viewing cyclists as an inconvenience rather than another human.

Nonsense. Motorists have always had an issue with cyclists. There’s no educating some of them…so you stay clear of them.

[thepritch]

On a visit to Surrey last year, I was on my bike, stopped at regular crossroads junction at a set of traffic lights. No traffic around, around 6pm, I was very relaxed minding my own business stood next to the kerb. A white van appears from the road on my left, and on seeing me, winds down his window and yells right at me : ‘You f***’ing C***’.

And continues to drive off. That was it. No other interaction or back story.

I’m sure the regular PH cycle haters will tell me that was deserved. Because yes, I’m a menace to the road.

Glad I moved away, and now enjoy my riding alone, with only one or two cars an hour. Of course, I’m sure I’ll be annoying someone on my solo rides. Somehow.

[nickfrog]

trails said:

nickfrog said:

MTB is where it's a at for me. Sooooo much more fun. No cars

Edited by nickfrog on Thursday 4th April 17:13

Just have to avoid those derestricted ebikes instead. Menaces to society

On a serious note, while I can see the appeal of the raw speed of road bikes, it doesn't feel/look like a lot of fun compared to MTB. Although I suppose fun can take many forms. I just don't see road bike riders giggling and grinning like we seem to do on a MTB.

[TGCOTF-dewey]

nickfrog said:

trails said:

nickfrog said:

MTB is where it's a at for me. Sooooo much more fun. No cars

Edited by nickfrog on Thursday 4th April 17:13

Just have to avoid those derestricted ebikes instead. Menaces to society

On a serious note, while I can see the appeal of the raw speed of road bikes, it doesn't feel/look like a lot of fun compared to MTB. Although I suppose fun can take many forms. I just don't see road bike riders giggling and grinning like we seem to do on a MTB.

It's hard to grin and laugh when your bestubbled face is staring wistfully at the horizon in black and white.

[thepritch]

TGCOTF-dewey said:

It's hard to grin and laugh when your bestubbled face is staring wistfully at the horizon in black and white.

I suspect it’s hard to see anything at all when you’re caked head to toe in mud and s**t. I guess the fun bit is taking three hours to clean yourself and the bike after every ride

Being serious, I enjoy both. They both have their own appeal.

[nickfrog]

That's a very good point about the mud. That's why I have stopped cycling October to (hopefully this year) March.

It's tennis for me instead in winter though! Immense fun too.

Edited by nickfrog on Friday 5th April 09:03

[trails]

nickfrog said:

trails said:

nickfrog said:

MTB is where it's a at for me. Sooooo much more fun. No cars

Edited by nickfrog on Thursday 4th April 17:13

Just have to avoid those derestricted ebikes instead. Menaces to society

On a serious note, while I can see the appeal of the raw speed of road bikes, it doesn't feel/look like a lot of fun compared to MTB. Although I suppose fun can take many forms. I just don't see road bike riders giggling and grinning like we seem to do on a MTB.

Even in the horrible weather we have now, riding through fields of cow dung, and hucking a 45lb ebike over ten stiles

[President Merkin]

I love the mud, me. Getting covered in st is part of the appeal. I also get the speed & rhythmic zen thing in road biking but can't square it with the proliferation of aholes in cars. It just doesn't add up in my head, so I'm sticking to the trails. Sometimes literally.

[Freakuk]

I think a lot of this depends upon where you live.

I have been mountain biking for 20+ years, road cyclist for around 10 years, and a motorcyclist for 26 years. So I am more than aware of the UK driving standards.

I've kind of fell out of love with MTB mainly due to location and congestion. I would go to Wales most weekends over summer and it would be around 1 hour to get to a trail centre, moving house and increased congestion means that is now in excess of 90 minutes (each way) to the same place, so 3 hours just spent in the car for a few hours ride.

This led me to get a road bike as I could be out cycling and be back and still have 1/2 day left to do something else.

The good thing is my location, I am very rural so I have access to lots of single track lanes which are rarely used by normal road traffic, you may have to dodge the odd tractor, sheep, cows etc, but generally you are pretty safe.... Thus my cycling has become more road biased, time, safety etc.

I do have Zwift and over winter that takes over, I am very much a fair weather rider, but I prefer the outdoors just to take in the views and fresh air.

As another observation, i've done 2 cycling holidays - Costa Rica and India (which I completed March this year), and it's surprising how much easier/generally safer and better roads they have there by comparison. I envisage my big riding will be abroad going forward given the experience to date and Zwift will be my main UK cycling. I'd love to do more MTB but as I say the travel is the killer for me.

[trails]

thepritch said:

TGCOTF-dewey said:

It's hard to grin and laugh when your bestubbled face is staring wistfully at the horizon in black and white.

I suspect it’s hard to see anything at all when you’re caked head to toe in mud and s**t. I guess the fun bit is taking three hours to clean yourself and the bike after every ride

Being serious, I enjoy both. They both have their own appeal.

Three hours...maybe I've been doing it wrong; hose bike down in back garden, then get the wife to hose me down...jobs a good 'un

[nickfrog]

^that's fair enough but if you're rural, aren't there any local decent trails without taking the car?

[bobbo89]

thepritch said:

On a visit to Surrey last year, I was on my bike, stopped at regular crossroads junction at a set of traffic lights. No traffic around, around 6pm, I was very relaxed minding my own business stood next to the kerb. A white van appears from the road on my left, and on seeing me, winds down his window and yells right at me : ‘You f***’ing C***’.

Must have been a Derek and Clive fan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTifRi3qDkU

[Evanivitch]

GuigiaroBertone said:

Going off topic a bit, but UK weather is actually pretty conducive to skydiving. There are more jumpable days here than you'd probably think. I've been in California / Arizona where it's often just too hot to be comfortable jumping all day or there are dust devils that can really endanger your landings. I've also lost days in Spain and Portugal due to wind being above my limits.

Not my limited experience of Swansea skydiving!