Getting Faster...
Discussion
I'm looking for tips on getting faster when riding my bike.
I do a reasonable amount of biking, currently averaging 50-75miles (mainly MTB) a week, this generally goes up in the summer - I ride with my brother a lot and on straight sections I just can't keep up, on technical bits I seem to be quicker so need to improve on my straight line performance more than anything.
I have a road bike also and considering a trainer / rollers again - is this worthwhile for when I have a spare half hour to get the legs spinning?
When out with someone faster, is it always worth trying to get in front or sit behind? having them push may encourage me to go faster, when following its a bit demoralizing seeing the gap increase but helps me push to try and keep up...
I wouldn't say I eat particularly unhealthy but then this could be better...
Any advice much appreciated, I am obviously just wondering if I simply need a new bike...
I do a reasonable amount of biking, currently averaging 50-75miles (mainly MTB) a week, this generally goes up in the summer - I ride with my brother a lot and on straight sections I just can't keep up, on technical bits I seem to be quicker so need to improve on my straight line performance more than anything.
I have a road bike also and considering a trainer / rollers again - is this worthwhile for when I have a spare half hour to get the legs spinning?
When out with someone faster, is it always worth trying to get in front or sit behind? having them push may encourage me to go faster, when following its a bit demoralizing seeing the gap increase but helps me push to try and keep up...
I wouldn't say I eat particularly unhealthy but then this could be better...
Any advice much appreciated, I am obviously just wondering if I simply need a new bike...
upsidedownmark said:
Rollers no, trainer yes.
You can get in a workout in 30 mins. an hour would make more sense, but a 5-10min warmup, some fairly hard intervals, and no cooldown will still work (I know it'll freak a lot of folks out, but TBH I rarely bother with the cooldown part) However, 'just spinning the legs' for half an hour isn't goint to make a difference.
Why trainer over Rollers? I had a trainer a few years back which I didn't get on with but maybe It'll be different if I can watch some interval training videos on youtube.. You can get in a workout in 30 mins. an hour would make more sense, but a 5-10min warmup, some fairly hard intervals, and no cooldown will still work (I know it'll freak a lot of folks out, but TBH I rarely bother with the cooldown part) However, 'just spinning the legs' for half an hour isn't goint to make a difference.
Joey Ramone said:
When you say you want to get faster, what sorts of speeds are you averaging now (on solo rides)?
If you say you can't keep up with other riders, that covers a multitude of abilities. If my riding buddy is capable of averaging 25mph solo then I'm f
ked and there's no way I'll be keeping up with them if they ride to their normal speed. If it's 19-20 mph solo then that's fine, not a problem.
As for getting faster, that depends on so many variables but basically you either need to pedal faster than you are now, or turn a bigger gear at the same rate.
On an XC ride (bridal ways, footpaths, single track plus a few road sections), approx 25miles I'm averaging 12.5-13 mph - I am running a 1x10 set up with a 36t ring currently... If you say you can't keep up with other riders, that covers a multitude of abilities. If my riding buddy is capable of averaging 25mph solo then I'm f
ked and there's no way I'll be keeping up with them if they ride to their normal speed. If it's 19-20 mph solo then that's fine, not a problem.As for getting faster, that depends on so many variables but basically you either need to pedal faster than you are now, or turn a bigger gear at the same rate.
On solo rides of the same I'm probably 12-12.5mph, road can be anywhere between 16-18mph.
Banana Boy said:
I invested in a turbo trainer this year for structured interval training and am definitely seeing an improvement in performance based on some selected Strava segments etc. (I should know more after this weekend if I manage to get out for a proper ride for the first time in months?!)
It helps if you have a specific goals in mind, mine is to improve my time at the Tour of Cambridgeshire - Last year I had a target of 4hrs 30 and managed 4hrs 17, this year I'm aiming for a sub 4hr time... hence the turbo training.
Two things help spur me on during 'hard' training:
Greg LeMond's famous quote 'It never gets easier, you just go faster'
And I can't remember the exact quote but I read an interview with Lizzie Armitstead who said that she felt her success came from a willingness to suffer when riding/racing hard!
Basically, burning muscular pain is good as it means you're pushing yourself and your body, just remember to recover well.
The last couple of rides my legs have been burning - must be doing some good thereIt helps if you have a specific goals in mind, mine is to improve my time at the Tour of Cambridgeshire - Last year I had a target of 4hrs 30 and managed 4hrs 17, this year I'm aiming for a sub 4hr time... hence the turbo training.
Two things help spur me on during 'hard' training:
Greg LeMond's famous quote 'It never gets easier, you just go faster'
And I can't remember the exact quote but I read an interview with Lizzie Armitstead who said that she felt her success came from a willingness to suffer when riding/racing hard!
Basically, burning muscular pain is good as it means you're pushing yourself and your body, just remember to recover well.
snorkel sucker said:
On the basis that "most" of the OPs mileage is MTB, then 50-75 miles a week off road is a decent amount.
On the basis that "most" of the OPs mileage is MTB, then it would be fair to assume the OP is a mountain biker, primarily at least.
Road Cycling is great for putting the miles in and upping your endurance but it doesn't even remotely hold a candle to the effort required to punt a mountain bike round for the same period.
Most pro and elite level enduro and DH bikers use their road bikes to get the miles in and up their endurance but gym work is as, if not more important for a mountain biker.
End of the day, it depends what aspect the OP wants to improve, assuming they exist like the rest of us in a time restricted environment. The quality of the miles is key and, no, there is definitely no harm in doing strength work to help with becoming a better mountain biker. In fact, if you want to be a better mountain biker, strength and mobility are just as important as having a decent pair of lungs.
You are right, I enjoy MTB more over road riding, I enjoy the odd sportive throughout the year and this year I'm hoping to commute once or twice a week when the days are longer (25miles each way), my road bike can sit for weeks without turning a wheel.On the basis that "most" of the OPs mileage is MTB, then it would be fair to assume the OP is a mountain biker, primarily at least.
Road Cycling is great for putting the miles in and upping your endurance but it doesn't even remotely hold a candle to the effort required to punt a mountain bike round for the same period.
Most pro and elite level enduro and DH bikers use their road bikes to get the miles in and up their endurance but gym work is as, if not more important for a mountain biker.
End of the day, it depends what aspect the OP wants to improve, assuming they exist like the rest of us in a time restricted environment. The quality of the miles is key and, no, there is definitely no harm in doing strength work to help with becoming a better mountain biker. In fact, if you want to be a better mountain biker, strength and mobility are just as important as having a decent pair of lungs.
What sort of off bike training would you recommend?
pembo said:
Have you considered the gearing might be the issue?
I run a 36 chainring on my cyclocross bike and there was a long straight section last week where I was spinning like crazy going 25mph. Perhaps a bigger chainring will give you more speed on the straights?
Yes, I have considered this - my brother runs a double with a 38t outer so I am slightly under geared in comparison. I run a 36 chainring on my cyclocross bike and there was a long straight section last week where I was spinning like crazy going 25mph. Perhaps a bigger chainring will give you more speed on the straights?
I initially purchased a Narrow Wide 38t but it fouled the frame when running a SRAM crank, I've since changed to an XT crank which seems to have spaced the ring out further so maybe worth trying a 38t again (especially with Superstars offer this week...) - I sold the last one..
snorkel sucker said:
Well, in addition to needing a good base fitness, which, as others have said, comes from putting the miles in, if you want to get better at MTB then there are a few areas you could work on.
Core strength so anything from sit ups to free weights can help.
Explosive power exercises help with those short punchy techy climbs.
Flexibility and suppleness helps with on bike mobility.
General conditioning.
Your body will take much more punishment on an average trail ride than an average road ride so if you aren't conditioned to be strong, flexible and powerful you will fatigue quicker and easier.
I'm not a road biker but I can see the merits of it for getting the miles in. As a mountain biker though I know that its about more than fitness to be good. I know many people who are very fit but not very strong and simply can't sustain the power needed to ride quickly on challenging terrain.
ETA: Just read that you did a ride which was 26.3 miles and with 273ft climbing. Nothing wrong with that but a typical ride for me would be 17 miles and about 1700ft climbing.
My ride is naturally harder given the climbing figure so I would suggest making your ride harder by adding intervals; sustained periods of hard effort to tune your body into working harder. Of course, there is also the fact that climbing 1700ft means your body is doing more work physically so, as above, by adding in some strength training you should be able to supplement your riding with that.
Thanks - I have been trying to improve my Core Strength with Sit Ups etc. Have been considering getting some kettle weights to do something with weights also.. Core strength so anything from sit ups to free weights can help.
Explosive power exercises help with those short punchy techy climbs.
Flexibility and suppleness helps with on bike mobility.
General conditioning.
Your body will take much more punishment on an average trail ride than an average road ride so if you aren't conditioned to be strong, flexible and powerful you will fatigue quicker and easier.
I'm not a road biker but I can see the merits of it for getting the miles in. As a mountain biker though I know that its about more than fitness to be good. I know many people who are very fit but not very strong and simply can't sustain the power needed to ride quickly on challenging terrain.
ETA: Just read that you did a ride which was 26.3 miles and with 273ft climbing. Nothing wrong with that but a typical ride for me would be 17 miles and about 1700ft climbing.
My ride is naturally harder given the climbing figure so I would suggest making your ride harder by adding intervals; sustained periods of hard effort to tune your body into working harder. Of course, there is also the fact that climbing 1700ft means your body is doing more work physically so, as above, by adding in some strength training you should be able to supplement your riding with that.
Edited by snorkel sucker on Thursday 4th February 17:03
There is a 1.5-2mile loop locally that (for my area) has a long hill, I could repeat that a few times each ride..
frisbee said:
Yep, my regular commute is about that, as soon as I do any extra cycling I'm a lot stronger on the bike pretty much the next day.
Running and weights makes no noticeable difference.
I'm hoping to commute by bike a bit more when the days are longer, hopefully this will help over the summer period - I wouldn't fancy my commute during the winter months by bike though. Running and weights makes no noticeable difference.
This is the closest I have worked to home for a long time so need to make the most of it!
Black can man said:
I would have thought an all year round commute is paramount in building up speed & strength.
You are sounding like a fair weather cyclist OP , HTFU Dude.
If I could commute all year round I would - my job isn't that simple and being 25miles (the closest I have been for 10+ years) I don't fancy the dark country lanes through the winter. You are sounding like a fair weather cyclist OP , HTFU Dude.
I'm not a fair weather cyclist at all - I am quite proud that in 2015 I rode every Tuesday night bar 3 or 4, 1 due to holiday and others were switched to an alternative nights - I go out what ever the weather so don't have a problem with that...
nacnac said:
Although a lot of this has already been covered it looks like things should be reiterated. The OP wants to go faster on the flat, he rides in a pretty flat area so I think we can safely assume he doesn't have 10% hills to ride up nor will he have extended technical descents to work the rest of his body. As Okgo has said he is lacking fitness / threshold power. To improve this he most probably needs to increase his training load be it by more hours, more intensity or a combination of the two.
His best bet would be to use the road bike or trainer as the training load per hour you can achieve is far greater than on the mountain bike as you can pedal for practically the whole time without the inevitable free wheeling that is involved in mtb.
What do I know? I ride mtb as well as road, race regularly in both disciplines and I've had reasonable results. This from coming to cycling around 3 years ago so I have recently been down this path.
Thanks - I need to get myself a trainer, I actually cleared some space for one last night - any recommendations...His best bet would be to use the road bike or trainer as the training load per hour you can achieve is far greater than on the mountain bike as you can pedal for practically the whole time without the inevitable free wheeling that is involved in mtb.
What do I know? I ride mtb as well as road, race regularly in both disciplines and I've had reasonable results. This from coming to cycling around 3 years ago so I have recently been down this path.
Have been looking at fluid units, I know these are at the cheaper end but are they any good?
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/jet-black/z2-f...
http://www.halfords.com/cycling/turbo-trainers/tra...
I could get another circa 20% off the halfords one so they are similar price..
Edited by tjdixon911 on Friday 5th February 10:48
Banana Boy said:
I would also consider magnetic trainers is you didn't want to spend too much money. (Which can be half the price of a fluid trainer) Having ridden both I fully understand that fluid gives you more progressive feel and the convenience of not having to adjust the resistance but if your turbo is for supplemented training and not substituting riding then do you really need the realistic/progressive feel? I simply adjust the resistance or change gears between intervals, I don't feel that at my level I need any more than that?! The pain and the sweat is what counts...
I had previously asked for opinions on this http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/... - annoyingly it was £50 a couple of weeks ago.Banana Boy said:
I would also consider magnetic trainers is you didn't want to spend too much money. (Which can be half the price of a fluid trainer) Having ridden both I fully understand that fluid gives you more progressive feel and the convenience of not having to adjust the resistance but if your turbo is for supplemented training and not substituting riding then do you really need the realistic/progressive feel? I simply adjust the resistance or change gears between intervals, I don't feel that at my level I need any more than that?! The pain and the sweat is what counts...
I had previously asked for opinions on this http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/... - annoyingly it was £50 a couple of weeks ago.Getting back on track - I purchased a Turbo Trainer at the weekend, its all set up in the utility room ready for my first session tonight, will see how it goes...
Went out last night and I felt really slow, I think some of that was down to eating too much too close to the start of the ride and also I had a bad(ish) crash on my bike at the weekend and I was still suffering slightly from that...
I'm hoping this training malarkey will work... Working on the basis I ride on a Tuesday night and Saturday most weeks, how should my weekly plan look?
I'm thinking a plan along the lines of the below (subject to SWMBO);
Monday - Rest
Tuesday - Ride
Wednesday - Training (light)
Thursday - Training (hard)
Friday - Rest
Saturday - Ride
Sunday - Training (hard)
As the days draw out the plan will change as I hopefully commute a couple of days but this should get me going, is it too much?
Went out last night and I felt really slow, I think some of that was down to eating too much too close to the start of the ride and also I had a bad(ish) crash on my bike at the weekend and I was still suffering slightly from that...
I'm hoping this training malarkey will work... Working on the basis I ride on a Tuesday night and Saturday most weeks, how should my weekly plan look?
I'm thinking a plan along the lines of the below (subject to SWMBO);
Monday - Rest
Tuesday - Ride
Wednesday - Training (light)
Thursday - Training (hard)
Friday - Rest
Saturday - Ride
Sunday - Training (hard)
As the days draw out the plan will change as I hopefully commute a couple of days but this should get me going, is it too much?
budgie smuggler said:
I've been doing this and this whenever I have a spare 30 minutes.
I find it easier to beast myself on a trainer than out on the bike as I'm always worried I'll have trouble getting home afterwards!
I gave the first one a go last night, it was a good session and I pretty much kept up with it all - the 30 minutes went quite quickly - I have no means of measuring RPM although did 30second count during the rests to work out where I was roughly and wasn't far off the 80 RPM - I purchased a wired computer (£3.50) just to have some stats at the end of the session not sure it worked too well though.... I find it easier to beast myself on a trainer than out on the bike as I'm always worried I'll have trouble getting home afterwards!
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